Episode 167: Controlling Pests using Boron Instead of Insecticide with Jay Watts

Jay Watte is a fourth-generation farmer from the Imperial Valley in Southern California, where he manages a family operation focused on seed production. Thanks to his pioneering practices, Jay hasn’t sprayed insecticides on his farm for nearly two years. Instead of pesticides, Jay uses nutrient management, particularly boron applications, to boost plant resilience and reduce pest pressure. His experiments with soil inoculations and cover crops, are yielding promising results, including healthier plants and higher seed quality. Jay’s approach emphasizes sustainable practices that prioritize long-term soil vitality and community well-being over short-term gains.

Jay supplies major retailers and local farmers with his seed, especially Bermuda grass and alfalfa. Beyond seed production, he has ventured into growing agave and is launching a market garden to provide diverse, healthy produce to his community through a local CSA program.

In this episode, John and Jay discuss:

The challenges of producing seed compared to forage crops
Improving alfalfa seed quality
Changing regional crop patterns, including the decline of cotton and sugar beets
Water management and irrigation challenges in a desert environment
Evolving management strategies to combat the rise in pest and disease pressures
Jay’s success in reducing insecticide use through boron and nutrient management
The benefits of soil inoculations and cover crops in regenerative farming
Jay’s vision for a sustainable legacy for his children and community

Additional Resources
To learn more about AEA’s Rebound Boron, please visit: https://advancingecoag.com/product/rebound-boron-gal-p6850075/

About John Kempf
John Kempf is the founder of Advancing Eco Agriculture (AEA). A top expert in biological and regenerative farming, John founded AEA in 2006 to help fellow farmers by providing the education, tools, and strategies that will have a global effect on the food supply and those who grow it.

Through intense study and the knowledge gleaned from many industry leaders, John is building a comprehensive systems-based approach to plant nutrition – a system solidly based on the sciences of plant physiology, mineral nutrition, and soil microbiology.

Support For This Show & Helping You Grow
Since 2006, AEA has been on a mission to help growers become more resilient, efficient, and profitable with regenerative agriculture.

AEA works directly with growers to apply its unique line of liquid mineral crop nutrition products and biological inoculants. Informed by cutting-edge plant and soil data-gathering techniques, AEA’s science-based programs empower farm operations to meet the crop quality markers that matter the most.

AEA has created real and lasting change on millions of acres with its products and data-driven services by working hand-in-hand with growers to produce healthier soil, stronger crops, and higher profits.

Beyond working on the ground with growers, AEA leads in regenerative agriculture media and education, producing and distributing the popular and highly-regarded Regenerative Agriculture Podcast, inspiring webinars, and other educational content that serve as go-to resources for growers worldwide.

Learn more about AEA’s regenerative programs and products: https://www.advancingecoag.com

Podcast Transcript

0:04 – 0:05

Hi friends, this is John.

0:05 – 0:06

Welcome to the Region of

0:06 – 0:08

Agriculture podcast where we

0:08 – 0:08

have all kinds of fun

0:08 – 0:10

conversations. Today, I'm joined

0:10 – 0:12

by Jay Watt, who is a friend of

0:12 – 0:13

mine.

0:13 – 0:14

I had the privilege of hosting

0:14 – 0:16

him here at my home some time

0:16 – 0:16

ago on

0:17 – 0:18

a day where we also had lots of

0:18 – 0:19

interesting conversations.

0:20 – 0:21

Jay, thank you for being here.

0:21 – 0:23

I've really been looking forward

0:23 – 0:24

to this discussion.

0:25 – 0:26

And, you know,

0:26 – 0:27

we all have different

0:27 – 0:28

perspectives,

0:29 – 0:30

different experiences.

0:30 – 0:31

And one of the things that I've

0:31 – 0:34

always been intrigued by is the

0:34 – 0:35

experiences and the perspectives

0:35 – 0:37

of people who are actually

0:37 – 0:38

producing and growing seed or

0:38 – 0:39

producing and growing a

0:39 – 0:40

diversity of different crops

0:40 – 0:42

because there is something about

0:42 – 0:45

growing a diversity of different

0:45 – 0:47

crops or taking things to the

0:47 – 0:48

kind of the ultimate level of

0:48 – 0:50

quality that really sharpens

0:50 – 0:52

your perspective and hones your

0:52 – 0:52

senses.

0:53 – 0:54

So thank you for being here.

0:54 – 0:56

Tell us a bit about your context

0:56 – 0:58

and your operation and the scope

0:58 – 0:58

of the things that you're

0:58 – 0:59

working with.

1:00 – 1:00

Thank you.

1:00 – 1:02

I'm actually a fourth generation

1:02 – 1:04

farmer in the Imperial Valley,

1:04 – 1:06

which is the southernmost point

1:06 – 1:08

in California. We're a seed

1:08 – 1:08

production

1:09 – 1:10

family operation.

1:11 – 1:12

I make

1:12 – 1:13

two different kinds.

1:14 – 1:15

My main thing is Bermuda seed

1:15 – 1:17

that is sold. You see it in

1:17 – 1:18

Lowe's, Home Depot.

1:19 – 1:20

It's your

1:20 – 1:22

filler grass for a lot of the

1:22 – 1:24

lawn and garden companies.

1:24 – 1:26

And then I also grow alfalfa

1:26 – 1:27

seed

1:27 – 1:29

that we use locally.

1:29 – 1:31

I sell it to

1:31 – 1:33

back to local farmers,

1:33 – 1:35

and I also have a couple

1:35 – 1:37

brokerages that I work with that

1:38 – 1:39

sell it wholesale,

1:40 – 1:41

but our seed's a little bit

1:41 – 1:44

different because we have zero

1:44 – 1:46

dormancy rating on our alfalfa

1:46 – 1:49

seeds, so it only can go to

1:49 – 1:50

1:51 – 1:52

southern areas, more warm

1:52 – 1:53

climates,

1:53 – 1:54

and some of the other,

1:55 – 1:56

they'll use them sometimes if

1:56 – 1:57

you use it like a clover as just

1:57 – 2:00

an annual in quarantine.

2:00 – 2:02

but it won't survive the

2:02 – 2:03

winters.

2:05 – 2:06

Is there anything else going on

2:06 – 2:08

besides the seed production?

2:09 – 2:10

Yes.

2:09 – 2:12

I do about seven acres of

2:12 – 2:15

agave that I have been doing for

2:15 – 2:16

three years.

2:19 – 2:20

where that's gonna go, we'll see

2:20 – 2:21

what the market does.

2:21 – 2:22

As of right now, it's probably

2:22 – 2:24

gonna be into a spirit,

2:24 – 2:25

hopefully,

2:25 – 2:28

but it's wide open for what it

2:28 – 2:29

could be.

2:30 – 2:31

There's inulin production, which

2:31 – 2:34

is a prebiotic for a

2:35 – 2:35

fiber,

2:36 – 2:37

like fiber, your fiber pills and

2:37 – 2:38

things like that.

2:38 – 2:40

There's also a feed,

2:41 – 2:44

like animal feed possibility in

2:44 – 2:45

that.

2:46 – 2:47

And then there's,

2:48 – 2:50

Biofuel is one of the things

2:50 – 2:51

that there's a big study out

2:51 – 2:52

right now, whether it's going to

2:52 – 2:53

be a viable crop for

2:54 – 2:56

biodiesel or biofuel.

2:57 – 3:00

And then my pet project right

3:00 – 3:01

now is my wife and I are

3:01 – 3:03

starting a small market garden

3:03 – 3:06

to have a

3:06 – 3:07

CSA that we can

3:08 – 3:10

have locally shipped,

3:12 – 3:13

or not shipped out locally, but

3:13 – 3:14

that we can have delivered

3:14 – 3:16

locally to all of our friends

3:16 – 3:18

and neighbors to give them

3:19 – 3:21

a healthier source of produce

3:21 – 3:24

that is a little bit more

3:24 – 3:26

diverse than just the lettuce,

3:27 – 3:28

squash, things like that on the

3:28 – 3:30

shelf at the grocery store.

3:32 – 3:34

In the context of your seed

3:34 – 3:35

production operation,

3:36 – 3:38

what are some of the historical

3:38 – 3:40

challenges that you've had to

3:40 – 3:41

deal with in your growing

3:41 – 3:42

environment, in your growing

3:42 – 3:43

context?

3:44 – 3:46

How is producing seed for those

3:46 – 3:47

crops different than from

3:47 – 3:49

producing a forage crop?

3:50 – 3:53

Well, the water scheduling is a

3:53 – 3:54

little bit more difficult.

3:55 – 3:56

And when you're producing a

3:56 – 3:58

forage crop, you're watering it

3:58 – 4:00

every two weeks, and you want it

4:00 – 4:03

to grow as much leaf matter and

4:04 – 4:05

forage as possible.

4:06 – 4:07

With seed production,

4:08 – 4:10

we kind of want to, for lack of

4:10 – 4:12

a better term, mistreat it so

4:12 – 4:14

that it thinks it's going to

4:14 – 4:15

die, and it wants to put off

4:15 – 4:18

seed to help itself reproduce.

4:20 – 4:22

So we will stress it a little

4:22 – 4:23

bit.

4:24 – 4:25

From past experience, I have

4:25 – 4:27

learned that you can overstress

4:27 – 4:29

a lot of the Bermuda and things

4:29 – 4:30

like that to where it'll just,

4:30 – 4:32

it makes blank seeds that are

4:32 – 4:33

just,

4:33 – 4:34

they're a husk with no

4:35 – 4:36

seed inside.

4:37 – 4:38

They

4:38 – 4:40

will

4:40 – 4:41

go through the

4:43 – 4:45

cycle of producing seed three or

4:45 – 4:47

four times throughout the

4:47 – 4:47

growing season.

4:47 – 4:49

So you'll have different flushes

4:49 – 4:51

come through and you kind of

4:51 – 4:52

have to time it because you're

4:52 – 4:53

trying to maintain the

4:54 – 4:56

the plant and keep it growing

4:56 – 4:58

and you're also trying to

4:59 – 4:59

help it

5:00 – 5:02

be stressed out and

5:02 – 5:03

want to produce seed.

5:04 – 5:04

So we

5:05 – 5:06

usually will

5:08 – 5:09

change our water schedule as we

5:09 – 5:11

go through the

5:11 – 5:12

season. In the beginning when

5:12 – 5:15

it's cooler we'll probably water

5:15 – 5:15

every

5:16 – 5:17

30 to 40 days.

5:19 – 5:21

And then once it starts to warm

5:21 – 5:22

up, we start to taper that back

5:22 – 5:25

until we get to about 20 to 14

5:25 – 5:27

days. There at the last one, our

5:27 – 5:28

last two waters are probably 14

5:28 – 5:29

days apart.

5:31 – 5:32

When you, if you have multiple

5:32 – 5:34

seed flushes or head flushes

5:34 – 5:35

coming through in a year, are

5:35 – 5:37

you on the, in the case of the

5:37 – 5:38

Bermuda grass, are you

5:38 – 5:39

harvesting seed multiple times

5:39 – 5:40

per year or just one harvest per

5:40 – 5:41

year?

5:41 – 5:42

Just one harvest.

5:42 – 5:44

Bermuda doesn't shatter like

5:44 – 5:44

other seeds.

5:45 – 5:45

It, uh,

5:46 – 5:48

we do also do a winter harvest.

5:49 – 5:51

seed that we've

5:52 – 5:53

started doing rather than

5:53 – 5:55

cutting for hay, because it's

5:55 – 5:56

just more economically viable.

5:57 – 5:58

The hay,

5:58 – 5:59

you have to put a lot of inputs

5:59 – 6:01

into it, and then you also have

6:01 – 6:03

to cut it, and you

6:03 – 6:05

don't have the capability to

6:05 – 6:05

make as much.

6:06 – 6:07

6:07 – 6:10

it can sit there in the field,

6:11 – 6:13

either windrowed or just upright

6:13 – 6:15

before you cut it, and it will

6:15 – 6:16

hold for,

6:17 – 6:19

I mean, we've held it for two

6:19 – 6:20

months.

6:20 – 6:22

just sitting in the field before

6:22 – 6:24

we could get a combine to it and

6:24 – 6:26

the yield didn't change.

6:27 – 6:30

So you have the benefit of being

6:30 – 6:31

a fourth generation farmer and

6:31 – 6:32

having

6:32 – 6:35

observed lots of changes

6:35 – 6:38

in the way farming is done and

6:38 – 6:39

ecosystem management and so

6:39 – 6:41

forth. What have been some of

6:41 – 6:42

the

6:42 – 6:44

challenges that you've observed

6:44 – 6:45

over the last couple of decades

6:45 – 6:47

and how is your farming

6:47 – 6:47

operation evolving?

6:50 – 6:51

Changing crops is one of the

6:51 – 6:52

main ones.

6:53 – 6:54

My dad was

6:55 – 6:57

pretty large cotton grower in

6:57 – 6:58

the area when we would grow

6:58 – 6:59

cotton here.

6:59 – 7:01

And up until probably two years

7:01 – 7:03

ago, we had no acres of cotton.

7:03 – 7:04

And this year we have a couple

7:04 – 7:06

hundred acres when we used to

7:06 – 7:09

have 85 ,000 acres of cotton in

7:09 – 7:10

the area.

7:10 – 7:13

And as the crops change,

7:14 – 7:16

the methods of farming have to

7:16 – 7:17

change. Our

7:17 – 7:19

bed sizes will change.

7:20 – 7:23

Our methods of cultivation will

7:23 – 7:24

change.

7:26 – 7:27

The fertilizer companies will

7:27 – 7:29

have to adapt and move their

7:29 – 7:32

products into a

7:32 – 7:34

more like

7:34 – 7:37

Bermuda or alfalfa or produce

7:37 – 7:39

centric model and they'll

7:39 – 7:42

have to focus their attention

7:42 – 7:42

other

7:43 – 7:45

areas rather than what we have

7:45 – 7:46

here. just lost the sugar beet

7:47 – 7:49

plant that we had here for,

7:50 – 7:51

I think it was,

7:52 – 7:52

I'm probably getting this number

7:52 – 7:54

wrong, but upwards of 75 years.

7:54 – 7:56

It's been here since the

7:56 – 7:57

forties, I think.

7:57 – 7:58

And

7:58 – 7:59

they,

8:00 – 8:01

the company, it just wasn't

8:01 – 8:02

economically viable for them.

8:02 – 8:04

And they are from Minnesota.

8:04 – 8:05

They

8:06 – 8:07

decided to shut this plant,

8:08 – 8:09

take their sugar allotment and

8:09 – 8:11

move it to Minnesota.

8:12 – 8:12

and,

8:13 – 8:14

or no, yeah, Minnesota.

8:14 – 8:17

And now we've got 25 acres of,

8:18 – 8:20

or 25 ,000 acres of

8:21 – 8:22

sugar beet production that isn't

8:22 – 8:23

going to happen this year,

8:23 – 8:24

that's going to have to move

8:24 – 8:25

into a new crop.

8:25 – 8:26

And that's going to affect

8:26 – 8:29

everybody from the beet

8:29 – 8:32

harvesters all the way up to the

8:33 – 8:35

like city managers and things

8:35 – 8:37

that are having to figure out,

8:37 – 8:38

they actually declared a state

8:38 – 8:40

of emergency for it.

8:40 – 8:42

I'm not sure what it's going to

8:42 – 8:42

do, but

8:43 – 8:45

besides maybe help with tax

8:45 – 8:46

revenue and things like that.

8:46 – 8:48

But that's been one of the main

8:48 – 8:49

things that we have experienced

8:49 – 8:50

that has

8:51 – 8:52

forced us to adapt.

8:55 – 8:58

My dad started farming Bermuda

8:58 – 9:01

seed when I was probably 11

9:01 – 9:02

years old.

9:02 – 9:04

And before that, nobody farmed

9:04 – 9:05

it.

9:05 – 9:08

And it was a pretty unknown crop

9:08 – 9:09

at the time. And now it's one of

9:09 – 9:11

the main crops in the Imperial

9:11 – 9:12

Valley besides alfalfa.

9:16 – 9:17

When I think about crop

9:17 – 9:18

production in the Imperial

9:18 – 9:20

Valley, from the perspective of,

9:21 – 9:22

there are many of our listeners

9:22 – 9:24

who don't

9:24 – 9:25

particularly have

9:26 – 9:27

perspective on the Imperial

9:27 – 9:28

Valley. Tell us a little bit

9:28 – 9:29

about the

9:29 – 9:31

growing climate, the growing

9:31 – 9:33

conditions, and what irrigation

9:33 – 9:34

water

9:34 – 9:36

management looks like and

9:36 – 9:38

availability and future supply

9:38 – 9:39

and how you are thinking about

9:39 – 9:40

that.

9:41 – 9:43

In the Imperial Valley, we are a

9:43 – 9:45

400 ,000 acre

9:45 – 9:47

valley in the southernmost

9:47 – 9:48

portion of California.

9:49 – 9:50

We get our water from the

9:50 – 9:52

Colorado River and it's all

9:52 – 9:53

gravity fed.

9:53 – 9:54

Oh, dear.

9:54 – 9:55

Yeah, we'll get to that.

9:56 – 9:57

That's a whole nother hot button

9:57 – 9:58

issue.

9:58 – 9:59

It's

10:00 – 10:02

all gravity fed for us.

10:02 – 10:03

There's no pumping stations.

10:03 – 10:05

There's just there's dams that

10:05 – 10:07

have that produce hydroelectric

10:07 – 10:08

power.

10:09 – 10:09

And

10:10 – 10:11

then

10:11 – 10:12

we have canals that

10:13 – 10:15

get smaller and smaller and feed

10:15 – 10:15

into our fields.

10:15 – 10:17

We have laterals that take a

10:17 – 10:18

large portion of the water down

10:18 – 10:20

and then move it into our actual

10:20 – 10:21

field

10:21 – 10:22

irrigation.

10:23 – 10:23

And

10:24 – 10:25

10:25 – 10:27

don't know the actual

10:27 – 10:28

percentage, but I would say we

10:28 – 10:30

are probably upwards of 80 %

10:30 – 10:30

flood irrigation.

10:31 – 10:33

And my sister, who's on the

10:33 – 10:34

IVH2O,

10:36 – 10:37

board, or well, she's the

10:37 – 10:39

executive director of it, is

10:39 – 10:40

probably going to kick me for

10:40 – 10:41

saying wrong numbers.

10:41 – 10:42

So I'll just say we have a lot

10:42 – 10:43

of flood irrigation.

10:43 – 10:44

There is some sprinkler and some

10:44 – 10:45

drip,

10:45 – 10:46

but

10:46 – 10:47

10:48 – 10:50

have a bit of a different

10:50 – 10:51

situation than most areas

10:51 – 10:52

because

10:52 – 10:55

we have a lot, have a high salt

10:55 – 10:57

content in our impurova, or in

10:57 – 11:00

our ground. We have a high pH.

11:00 – 11:02

We're upwards of 8 .1

11:03 – 11:05

to 8 .4 in most areas.

11:06 – 11:06

Our water

11:07 – 11:09

coming in is 8 .4 pH also.

11:10 – 11:13

So even if you were to bring the

11:13 – 11:14

pH down on your soil,

11:15 – 11:16

your water,

11:16 – 11:17

the next irrigation is going to

11:17 – 11:19

bring it right back up and it

11:19 – 11:20

just, it won't hold down.

11:21 – 11:22

So we have to adapt.

11:22 – 11:25

And most of our crops are geared

11:25 – 11:26

for the more alkaline salty

11:26 – 11:27

areas.

11:28 – 11:30

And we are

11:30 – 11:32

a desert area. We get upwards of

11:32 – 11:34

120 degrees in the summertime.

11:36 – 11:37

And

11:38 – 11:41

we have a great winter growing

11:41 – 11:42

season.

11:41 – 11:43

Starting right now, we're

11:43 – 11:45

planting lettuce

11:45 – 11:48

for the winter and fall.

11:49 – 11:52

We grow a lot of cauliflower and

11:52 – 11:54

broccoli,

11:54 – 11:56

corn, carrots.

11:56 – 11:57

Between

11:57 – 11:59

us and Yuma, I think we supply

11:59 – 12:01

most of the

12:01 – 12:03

United States with winter

12:03 – 12:04

produce.

12:04 – 12:06

So it's a very

12:07 – 12:08

interesting growing region.

12:09 – 12:10

12:10 – 12:13

have to pay attention when I'm

12:13 – 12:13

looking at

12:14 – 12:16

growing new crops and things

12:16 – 12:17

like that to check

12:18 – 12:19

what their temperatures are that

12:19 – 12:21

they're growing in because

12:22 – 12:22

the

12:24 – 12:25

opposite season for us here.

12:26 – 12:27

We're just

12:26 – 12:27

very

12:28 – 12:29

kind

12:29 – 12:30

of niche.

12:32 – 12:33

Are you adding any irrigation

12:33 – 12:34

water to,

12:35 – 12:37

in the case of the vegetable

12:37 – 12:38

crops, are you adding irrigation

12:38 – 12:40

water at all to

12:41 – 12:43

compensate for temperature

12:43 – 12:44

stress and to help cool crops

12:44 – 12:45

down?

12:45 – 12:46

Is that something that happens

12:46 – 12:46

during the winter months at all

12:46 – 12:47

or not really?

12:48 – 12:49

During the winter months, I

12:49 – 12:52

doubt it because I'm not a

12:52 – 12:53

vegetable grower, so I

12:54 – 12:55

can't really speak for them.

12:56 – 12:58

But I don't think that they do.

12:58 – 12:59

I've never heard of that

12:59 – 13:01

management practice because

13:02 – 13:05

the varieties that we use are

13:05 – 13:07

geared for a winter crop,

13:08 – 13:09

not a summer crop.

13:09 – 13:11

Like our onions that we grow

13:11 – 13:13

here are short day onions.

13:13 – 13:15

instead of long day onions,

13:15 – 13:16

which means we need a shorter

13:16 – 13:17

day for them to

13:18 – 13:21

make bulbs and grow.

13:21 – 13:22

So we have different varieties

13:22 – 13:25

that are catered to our area.

13:25 – 13:27

Texas is very similar to us in

13:27 – 13:28

their growing season and some of

13:28 – 13:30

the southern tips of Texas.

13:35 – 13:35

Historically,

13:36 – 13:38

the perspective has been that

13:38 – 13:39

the Imperial Valley, Central

13:39 – 13:42

Valley, these desert areas of

13:42 – 13:44

the West have had a significant

13:44 – 13:45

competitive advantage from a

13:45 – 13:47

climate perspective and from a

13:47 – 13:47

disease

13:47 – 13:49

susceptibility perspective

13:49 – 13:50

because of an ideal growing

13:50 – 13:51

climate.

13:55 – 13:57

What is interesting is if you

13:57 – 13:58

look at the historical use

13:58 – 14:00

patterns of fungicides and

14:00 – 14:01

insecticides,

14:01 – 14:02

but in this case particularly

14:02 – 14:03

fungicides,

14:04 – 14:05

there is

14:05 – 14:08

increasing use of fungicides

14:08 – 14:10

in these production regions

14:10 – 14:11

quite rapidly if you're looking

14:11 – 14:13

at over a 20 to 30 year time

14:13 – 14:14

horizon and even longer.

14:16 – 14:17

So how,

14:18 – 14:20

in this environment, how are you

14:20 – 14:22

observing disease pressure and

14:22 – 14:23

insect pressure shifting and

14:23 – 14:24

changing? You've been,

14:24 – 14:25

your father was one of the

14:25 – 14:26

pioneering growers of

14:27 – 14:28

Bermudagrass, you've been

14:28 – 14:29

growing Bermudagrass seed in the

14:29 – 14:30

same location for quite a long

14:30 – 14:31

time.

14:31 – 14:32

How have you seen that shift

14:32 – 14:33

over time?

14:35 – 14:36

In the Bermudagrass seed, we're

14:36 – 14:37

just starting to see a shift.

14:38 – 14:39

It's a

14:40 – 14:41

little bit behind.

14:41 – 14:42

I don't think because

14:42 – 14:45

we rotate it a little bit more.

14:45 – 14:47

Also, it's a perennial, so it

14:47 – 14:49

stays in, but we're not just

14:50 – 14:52

Bermuda after Bermuda after

14:52 – 14:53

Bermuda. We'll rotate some

14:53 – 14:54

alfalfa and some wheat,

14:55 – 14:56

maybe some Sedan.

14:57 – 14:57

So ours hasn't

14:58 – 15:01

been that bad, but for the

15:01 – 15:03

fungus problem,

15:03 – 15:05

we have a rust issue here,

15:06 – 15:07

and we can solve it with

15:08 – 15:09

a little bit of...

15:09 – 15:11

Most guys use like Tebistar or

15:11 – 15:12

something like that.

15:12 – 15:14

Other guys will use sulfur.

15:15 – 15:16

Sulfur doesn't exactly work on

15:16 – 15:17

rust.

15:18 – 15:19

It's long been a

15:20 – 15:21

prescribed treatment

15:22 – 15:24

for rust, but it doesn't quite

15:24 – 15:25

manage it.

15:27 – 15:29

But the main problem for Bermuda

15:29 – 15:32

has been in the recent years, we

15:32 – 15:33

have started to get a lot more

15:33 – 15:34

pests.

15:34 – 15:35

Bermuda

15:36 – 15:38

historically didn't have any

15:38 – 15:39

pests that you had to worry

15:39 – 15:40

about besides maybe some flea

15:40 – 15:42

beetle coming in when it was

15:42 – 15:43

germinating,

15:43 – 15:45

and they would just clip off the

15:45 – 15:46

growing

15:47 – 15:49

small plants, but once it grew,

15:49 – 15:50

it grows so fast and so

15:50 – 15:52

vigorously that even if you had

15:52 – 15:54

worms come in, it wouldn't eat

15:54 – 15:55

it down. But we,

15:55 – 15:57

this year had an army worm

15:57 – 15:58

problem,

15:59 – 16:02

which was unheard of in growing

16:02 – 16:03

Bermuda, not in germinating

16:03 – 16:04

Bermuda.

16:04 – 16:06

We have a leaf stem maggot that

16:06 – 16:08

comes in and will

16:09 – 16:10

lay its egg.

16:11 – 16:12

The fly will come in and lay its

16:12 – 16:14

egg in the stem of the Bermuda

16:14 – 16:17

stalk and kill that entire stalk

16:17 – 16:18

up and it won't produce seed.

16:19 – 16:20

And

16:20 – 16:22

there's also a mite issue, but

16:22 – 16:23

that's always been there.

16:23 – 16:24

And that was very easy to solve.

16:24 – 16:25

If you just put on

16:25 – 16:28

one application of sulfur, it

16:28 – 16:29

basically broke the life cycle

16:29 – 16:30

of the mites and you didn't have

16:30 – 16:31

to worry about them anymore.

16:32 – 16:33

But we're definitely seeing

16:34 – 16:36

new and emerging pests coming

16:36 – 16:37

into the Bermuda.

16:37 – 16:39

And then I can't quite speak for

16:39 – 16:41

the produce guys because I'm not

16:41 – 16:42

a produce grower, but I am a

16:42 – 16:44

pest control advisor, which is

16:46 – 16:48

PCA, I prescribe the chemicals

16:48 – 16:51

for farmers and I go to a lot of

16:51 – 16:51

meetings.

16:51 – 16:53

And a couple of years back,

16:53 – 16:56

Sclerotinia was rampant in the

16:56 – 16:58

Yuma area and the Imperial

16:58 – 17:01

Valley. It's slowly becoming

17:01 – 17:04

more managed, I think through

17:04 – 17:06

more fungicide uses and

17:08 – 17:10

practices like that.

17:11 – 17:13

But there's also

17:13 – 17:14

new

17:15 – 17:16

bugs that are coming in from,

17:17 – 17:18

we had the brugada bug that was

17:18 – 17:19

a big problem in broccoli for a

17:19 – 17:20

while. It's

17:21 – 17:23

a true bug that comes in and

17:23 – 17:24

stings the growing point of the

17:24 – 17:26

broccoli and the broccoli makes

17:26 – 17:28

a triple head or a double head

17:28 – 17:29

that's non -marketable.

17:30 – 17:33

And then you have the newest one

17:33 – 17:35

that's coming in is a virus

17:35 – 17:38

carried by thrips and it

17:39 – 17:41

you can see it it's it's like a

17:41 – 17:42

almost a mosaic pattern going

17:42 – 17:44

through the field of where the

17:44 – 17:47

thrip lands and feeds it infests

17:47 – 17:49

the the lettuce plant

17:49 – 17:50

and it

17:50 – 17:51

just died i think it's called

17:52 – 17:54

insv is what i don't know what

17:54 – 17:56

it stands for but um it's uh

17:56 – 17:58

it's a big product problem in

17:58 – 18:00

salinas right now not so much

18:00 – 18:02

here but it'll get here most

18:02 – 18:04

things in salinas come

18:05 – 18:07

down to us because we're just we

18:07 – 18:09

don't have as much produce year

18:09 – 18:10

-round they're able to grow

18:11 – 18:12

pretty much year -round because

18:12 – 18:15

their climate and we were

18:16 – 18:17

only half the year.

18:17 – 18:19

So they have a little bit faster

18:19 – 18:20

development of these pests and

18:20 – 18:21

diseases.

18:23 – 18:24

I'm curious. I'd like to

18:25 – 18:26

understand your perspective and

18:26 – 18:27

your thought process.

18:27 – 18:30

As a PCA, you get to see what's

18:30 – 18:31

happening and what's going on.

18:31 – 18:33

You have the benefit of some of

18:33 – 18:34

a historical perspective.

18:35 – 18:36

What's your take on the

18:36 – 18:40

increasing pressure and what the

18:40 – 18:41

long -term solutions for some of

18:41 – 18:42

those challenges might be?

18:43 – 18:45

The increasing pressure, I

18:45 – 18:47

think, is just because we

18:47 – 18:48

do the same thing year after

18:48 – 18:49

year after year.

18:50 – 18:52

And it's almost a

18:52 – 18:54

foregone conclusion that you're

18:54 – 18:56

going to get something to come

18:56 – 18:56

in.

18:57 – 18:58

I mean, avocados are a good

18:58 – 18:59

example. When they first started

18:59 – 19:00

planting avocados in California,

19:01 – 19:02

there were no pests.

19:02 – 19:03

They planted them on this.

19:03 – 19:04

You can see them still if you

19:04 – 19:05

drive to San Diego.

19:05 – 19:06

They're planted on the side of

19:06 – 19:08

hills where you could harvest

19:08 – 19:10

them, but you can't drive a

19:10 – 19:10

tractor around there.

19:10 – 19:11

You can walk.

19:12 – 19:14

And they've just abandoned those

19:14 – 19:16

because now we have pests that

19:16 – 19:18

have come into the avocados and

19:18 – 19:19

they can't spray them.

19:19 – 19:20

They can't do anything to manage

19:20 – 19:21

it.

19:22 – 19:24

With ours, what I have seen is

19:24 – 19:25

just

19:26 – 19:27

a lack of

19:29 – 19:30

diversity in our management

19:30 – 19:31

practices.

19:31 – 19:32

We just,

19:32 – 19:34

if it's a bug, we spray it with

19:34 – 19:35

an insecticide.

19:35 – 19:36

If it's a weed, we spray it with

19:36 – 19:38

a herbicide. We don't look at

19:38 – 19:39

any other

19:39 – 19:40

processes, which is kind of what

19:40 – 19:43

I'm trying to do with my farm

19:43 – 19:43

right now.

19:44 – 19:46

The main thing that I'm doing is

19:46 – 19:47

a boron regiment.

19:48 – 19:48

I put

19:49 – 19:50

boron through...

19:50 – 19:51

Oh, this is going to be a fun

19:51 – 19:52

conversation.

19:53 – 19:55

You just hit one of my hot

19:55 – 19:56

buttons.

19:57 – 19:59

I'm using Solubor to put boron

19:59 – 20:01

through the, into the roots,

20:01 – 20:02

through the water.

20:02 – 20:03

And then I also come in with a

20:03 – 20:05

foliar application of

20:06 – 20:08

boron throughout the year.

20:08 – 20:10

I try and get twice a year and

20:11 – 20:12

I have actually seen

20:13 – 20:16

a decrease in ligase pressure

20:16 – 20:19

in my alfalfa seed compared to a

20:19 – 20:20

neighbor who sprayed.

20:20 – 20:23

I was getting upwards of,

20:24 – 20:27

I think it was at least half the

20:27 – 20:28

ligase pressure that he got.

20:28 – 20:29

I've got my notes here.

20:28 – 20:29

I'm trying to look at them and

20:29 – 20:30

see.

20:30 – 20:31

It was at least half, but

20:31 – 20:33

sometimes it was three or four

20:33 – 20:35

times more in the

20:35 – 20:37

conventionally managed field

20:37 – 20:40

compared to mine that had a

20:40 – 20:41

boron treatment and

20:42 – 20:44

inoculations just

20:45 – 20:47

in my opinion, a healthier,

20:47 – 20:49

happier plant that was able to,

20:50 – 20:51

if for nothing else,

20:52 – 20:54

not let the ligus get

20:54 – 20:56

established and reproduce like

20:56 – 20:58

the other fields were able to.

20:59 – 21:00

All right.

21:00 – 21:01

As I said, you hit on one of my

21:01 – 21:02

buttons, so we're going to dig

21:02 – 21:04

into this one because I

21:05 – 21:06

don't know that if I've made

21:06 – 21:08

this comment on the podcast, but

21:08 – 21:08

I certainly haven't in many

21:08 – 21:10

presentations, but I'm of the

21:10 – 21:11

persuasion that

21:12 – 21:14

if crops generally had adequate

21:14 – 21:16

levels of boron or even on the

21:16 – 21:18

generous side of adequate levels

21:18 – 21:19

of boron,

21:20 – 21:21

insecticide use would probably

21:21 – 21:23

drop by in the neighborhood of

21:23 – 21:26

plus 80%, upwards of 80 % across

21:26 – 21:27

the entire industry.

21:27 – 21:28

21:28 – 21:29

this is something that I'm

21:30 – 21:31

quite interested in digging

21:31 – 21:32

into.

21:33 – 21:34

In your your ligus bug

21:34 – 21:35

experience, just to understand

21:35 – 21:37

the context, when you talk about

21:37 – 21:38

conventional treatment versus

21:38 – 21:40

your boron treatment with

21:40 – 21:42

the fields that you applied the

21:42 – 21:44

boron on, did those also have an

21:44 – 21:45

insecticide treatment or was

21:45 – 21:46

that without any insecticide?

21:46 – 21:47

No, no insecticides.

21:48 – 21:49

I haven't sprayed an insecticide

21:49 – 21:51

on my ranch in,

21:53 – 21:54

that was probably three or four

21:54 – 21:55

months ago. I said I did

21:56 – 21:57

the math and it was about 18

21:57 – 21:58

months. So we're going up,

21:58 – 22:00

we're coming up on almost two

22:00 – 22:02

years with no insecticides

22:02 – 22:04

whatsoever on my ranch.

22:06 – 22:09

Most conventional practices for

22:09 – 22:11

alfalfa and alfalfa seed

22:11 – 22:13

treatment are usually about one

22:13 – 22:16

spray per cutting and probably

22:16 – 22:17

two to three sprays

22:18 – 22:20

on the conservative side for

22:20 – 22:21

seed production.

22:21 – 22:22

Some of the

22:22 – 22:24

farmers that are on the nicer

22:24 – 22:26

ground that are able to produce

22:27 – 22:28

large yields,

22:29 – 22:32

they will get probably five to

22:32 – 22:33

six sprays per

22:34 – 22:35

cutting. When you say five to

22:34 – 22:35

six sprays or two to three

22:35 – 22:37

sprays per cutting, are each of

22:37 – 22:38

those sprays an insecticide

22:38 – 22:38

spray?

22:38 – 22:39

Is that what you're describing?

22:39 – 22:40

An insecticide spray.

22:41 – 22:43

It's heavy, heavy insecticide.

22:43 – 22:45

I'm going to get crucified for

22:45 – 22:47

bringing this up on a on a

22:47 – 22:49

podcast, but I don't care.

22:50 – 22:51

It's the truth.

22:51 – 22:54

I just I found that I don't need

22:56 – 22:57

insecticides.

22:58 – 22:59

My goodness, going from that

22:59 – 23:00

type of regime,

23:01 – 23:02

spray regime, to to no

23:02 – 23:05

insecticides in 18 months or 20

23:05 – 23:05

months.

23:05 – 23:06

that's

23:06 – 23:08

quite a shift.

23:09 – 23:10

There was definitely some

23:10 – 23:11

growing pains. It was a

23:11 – 23:13

conscious decision I made.

23:15 – 23:16

I don't know why, but this agave

23:16 – 23:18

has been kind of a gateway for

23:18 – 23:21

me to get into the regenerative

23:21 – 23:21

movement,

23:24 – 23:25

I won't say organic, because I

23:25 – 23:27

look at organic as more of a

23:27 – 23:28

marketing scheme than anything

23:28 – 23:30

anymore. It used to be something

23:30 – 23:31

that actually meant something,

23:31 – 23:33

but anymore it just means that

23:33 – 23:34

you spray a lot more of a

23:34 – 23:36

lighter material, in my opinion.

23:37 – 23:37

And

23:38 – 23:40

that's not a popular opinion,

23:40 – 23:42

but it's in my

23:42 – 23:43

view.

23:43 – 23:45

Well, I think you have kind of a

23:45 – 23:46

front row seat as a PCA to know

23:46 – 23:47

what's actually happening and

23:47 – 23:48

what's going on in the fields of

23:48 – 23:50

California, that your opinion

23:50 – 23:51

has some merit.

23:51 – 23:53

It just seems like with the

23:53 – 23:54

organic,

23:54 – 23:56

They use, it's softer

23:56 – 23:57

chemistries,

23:57 – 23:59

things that are

23:59 – 24:00

derived from plants,

24:01 – 24:03

but they're sprayed,

24:03 – 24:04

you know, in an organic spinach,

24:05 – 24:06

you might spray every two or

24:06 – 24:07

three days, something like that.

24:07 – 24:09

Or, I mean, corn, it's just,

24:09 – 24:10

it's just a ton.

24:11 – 24:12

And again, they're lighter,

24:13 – 24:14

they're derived from plants most

24:14 – 24:16

of the time, but

24:16 – 24:17

there are,

24:18 – 24:19

you know, there's still plants

24:19 – 24:21

that are detrimental to humans

24:21 – 24:23

out there. So I don't.

24:23 – 24:25

I don't know about the whole

24:25 – 24:26

organic movement.

24:26 – 24:27

I know there are some very, very

24:27 – 24:29

good organic crops out there,

24:29 – 24:30

and there's some very good

24:30 – 24:30

organic growers.

24:31 – 24:32

And

24:31 – 24:34

I've tried to support those over

24:34 – 24:35

the years by purchasing their

24:35 – 24:36

products. But I just

24:37 – 24:38

see that it's a

24:39 – 24:40

little bit of a

24:42 – 24:43

marketing thing.

24:43 – 24:45

But back to the agave, it was

24:45 – 24:46

kind of a gateway to get into

24:46 – 24:47

this.

24:47 – 24:47

And I

24:48 – 24:50

first put in my agave on a

24:51 – 24:51

field,

24:51 – 24:54

and I sprayed everything over

24:54 – 24:56

the top of it, from Roundup to

24:56 – 24:57

Prowl to

24:57 – 24:59

I mean, just anything I could,

24:59 – 25:00

because I was trying to see.

25:00 – 25:01

if it would survive.

25:01 – 25:02

And it does because it's got a

25:02 – 25:05

waxy cuticle, it stomata are

25:05 – 25:06

open at night.

25:06 – 25:07

It's just, it's a pretty

25:07 – 25:09

resilient, awesome plant.

25:09 – 25:10

And then most of the chemistry

25:10 – 25:12

that I was using ties up in the

25:12 – 25:14

soil so that the roots don't

25:14 – 25:15

uptake it.

25:15 – 25:18

And then I moved to a different

25:20 – 25:21

plot of land that I started

25:21 – 25:23

planting the agave and

25:23 – 25:25

for whatever reason, started

25:25 – 25:26

looking into regenerative

25:26 – 25:30

practices on agave

25:31 – 25:33

and just in general.

25:33 – 25:36

And I stopped spraying my agave,

25:36 – 25:37

didn't spray it.

25:37 – 25:38

I put, the one thing I did do

25:38 – 25:39

was I put some diatomaceous

25:39 – 25:40

earth because we had a cricket

25:40 – 25:42

infestation that actually ate

25:42 – 25:43

them down to the ground.

25:44 – 25:45

Yeah, it was,

25:45 – 25:47

I've never seen crickets eat

25:47 – 25:48

something like that, but I mean,

25:48 – 25:49

they,

25:49 – 25:52

pretty much foot tall to foot

25:52 – 25:54

and a half tall agave down to

25:54 – 25:54

the ground. They've all come

25:54 – 25:56

back because they're just tough

25:56 – 25:57

plants. But

25:57 – 25:59

that

26:00 – 26:02

got me into not spraying on

26:02 – 26:05

my Bermuda and I stopped putting

26:05 – 26:06

TR10,

26:07 – 26:08

the pre -emergent herbicide,

26:09 – 26:11

the granular herbicide that we

26:11 – 26:11

would all put down.

26:11 – 26:12

I stopped. I didn't

26:13 – 26:15

do it. And then I would walk my

26:15 – 26:16

fields and I would walk the

26:16 – 26:18

other fields that I managed that

26:18 – 26:19

were conventional and

26:20 – 26:22

I didn't see a lot of difference

26:22 – 26:22

in the Bermuda.

26:22 – 26:24

Yeah, I had a few broadleaves

26:24 – 26:25

here and there,

26:26 – 26:27

but when

26:28 – 26:29

I started looking at them and

26:29 – 26:30

figuring out what they all were,

26:30 – 26:31

they're all forbs.

26:31 – 26:32

So I

26:32 – 26:33

don't mind having them out there

26:33 – 26:35

and they all die off before the

26:35 – 26:37

Bermuda gets harvested and I

26:37 – 26:38

don't have to worry about them

26:39 – 26:40

gumming up any of the combines.

26:41 – 26:45

That led into my alfalfa

26:45 – 26:46

production, which I just stopped

26:46 – 26:48

doing any

26:49 – 26:50

pesticides. I kept with the

26:50 – 26:51

herbicides for

26:51 – 26:54

a while because I wanted a

26:54 – 26:55

clean, pretty field.

26:55 – 26:56

but

26:56 – 26:57

the insecticides I stopped

26:57 – 26:59

because they didn't make any

26:59 – 27:00

sense to me

27:00 – 27:04

in the economics because I could

27:04 – 27:05

look and see it was, you know,

27:05 – 27:06

maybe it would eat,

27:07 – 27:09

the insects would eat

27:10 – 27:12

a quarter ton of hay.

27:12 – 27:15

I make another ton and a half of

27:15 – 27:16

hay, ton and a quarter,

27:18 – 27:20

but I have to spray a pretty

27:20 – 27:21

expensive spray.

27:21 – 27:23

Most of them, even the low end

27:23 – 27:25

generics are,

27:25 – 27:27

$20 or $30 to the acre.

27:27 – 27:28

And then I've got a tractor that

27:28 – 27:30

has to go through a field, a guy

27:30 – 27:31

that has to sit in the tractor

27:31 – 27:32

and the economics just didn't

27:32 – 27:32

work out for me.

27:33 – 27:35

So I stopped. And

27:35 – 27:37

for probably the last five

27:37 – 27:38

years, I haven't sprayed my

27:38 – 27:41

alfalfa seed with an insecticide

27:41 – 27:42

throughout the year.

27:42 – 27:43

I would spray what we call the

27:43 – 27:44

cleanup spray in the beginning,

27:44 – 27:46

which was a heavy dose of

27:46 – 27:48

herbicides, insecticides, pre

27:48 – 27:49

-emergent,

27:49 – 27:50

27:51 – 27:52

little bit of fungicide, a

27:52 – 27:53

little bit of miticide.

27:53 – 27:54

I mean, it was,

27:54 – 27:57

it was a huge cocktail and.

27:58 – 28:00

It was $100 an acre to put that

28:00 – 28:01

on, if not 120.

28:02 – 28:03

And I don't

28:04 – 28:05

produce enough seed.

28:05 – 28:06

I'm

28:06 – 28:07

on tougher ground.

28:08 – 28:09

I'm not a seed grower in the

28:09 – 28:10

alfalfa sense.

28:11 – 28:12

I grow it for hay.

28:12 – 28:14

I'm learning now how to grow it

28:14 – 28:15

better for seed, but that's only

28:15 – 28:16

been in the last five, six years

28:16 – 28:18

that we've grown alfalfa for

28:18 – 28:19

seed on a regular basis.

28:20 – 28:22

And I just, I couldn't make the

28:22 – 28:23

production that some of these

28:23 – 28:24

other guys could on their

28:24 – 28:27

ground. So I didn't see the

28:27 – 28:28

point in putting $120 worth of

28:28 – 28:29

expense

28:30 – 28:31

for something that even with

28:32 – 28:33

that, I would make

28:33 – 28:35

marginal yields.

28:35 – 28:37

And when on the fields that I

28:37 – 28:38

didn't spray,

28:38 – 28:39

I made the same yields.

28:40 – 28:42

So I haven't lost anything, in

28:42 – 28:44

my opinion. And people look at

28:44 – 28:45

my fields, and they'll tell me

28:45 – 28:46

if I had done it, I'd have made

28:46 – 28:47

200 extra pounds.

28:47 – 28:48

But

28:48 – 28:49

28:49 – 28:50

don't really agree.

28:51 – 28:52

I think that it would have been

28:52 – 28:53

the same

28:53 – 28:55

whether I sprayed or whether I

28:55 – 28:55

had left it alone.

28:56 – 28:57

When you consider that cocktail

28:57 – 28:58

that you're describing, you had

28:58 – 28:59

a pretty heavy dose of

28:59 – 29:00

herbicides there.

29:00 – 29:04

Has not putting on those

29:04 – 29:05

herbicides affected your seed

29:05 – 29:07

purity in the alfalfa in any

29:07 – 29:08

way?

29:07 – 29:08

My germination rate has gone

29:08 – 29:09

through the roof.

29:11 – 29:12

Okay, that's,

29:12 – 29:13

wow.

29:13 – 29:14

How

29:14 – 29:15

has your germination rate

29:15 – 29:17

changed from historically to

29:17 – 29:18

present?

29:20 – 29:21

It's relative.

29:21 – 29:23

Through the roof, to me, means I

29:23 – 29:24

have another half of a percent

29:24 – 29:25

germination rate.

29:25 – 29:26

In alfalfa,

29:26 – 29:30

99 % germination rate is the

29:31 – 29:32

bare minimum that you want.

29:33 – 29:34

And I would have stuff in the

29:34 – 29:36

98s, 97s.

29:37 – 29:40

Now my germination rate is

29:40 – 29:43

upwards of 99 .8, 99

29:43 – 29:44

.7.

29:44 – 29:46

One of the seed wholesalers that

29:46 – 29:47

I work through

29:47 – 29:49

their number one grade and

29:49 – 29:51

number two grade differs by one

29:51 – 29:52

-tenth of a percent.

29:52 – 29:54

If I'm 99 .5, I'm number one.

29:55 – 29:57

If I'm 99 .4, I'm number two.

29:57 – 29:59

And you lose about 10 cents,

30:00 – 30:02

if not a little bit more per

30:02 – 30:04

pound.

30:05 – 30:08

So it's gone from in the 97s and

30:08 – 30:10

98s, some of it was 96s,

30:10 – 30:12

all the way up to the last

30:12 – 30:14

germination test I got was 99

30:14 – 30:14

.7.

30:16 – 30:17

Actually, I think there was a 99

30:17 – 30:19

.8 in there also.

30:20 – 30:21

Okay, this is a slightly

30:21 – 30:23

different question or response

30:23 – 30:24

than the question I was asking.

30:24 – 30:25

I was actually asking about if

30:25 – 30:27

you have any contamination with

30:27 – 30:27

other weed seeds or anything

30:27 – 30:28

like that.

30:29 – 30:32

So you're ascribing the

30:32 – 30:35

improvement in germination rate

30:35 – 30:36

to a lack of herbicides

30:36 – 30:37

primarily?

30:39 – 30:40

Prescribing it to my entire

30:40 – 30:42

practice of no herbicides,

30:43 – 30:45

no sprays,

30:46 – 30:47

soil inoculations,

30:48 – 30:49

a different

30:49 – 30:52

minor nutrient regimen,

30:53 – 30:55

and a lot of just

30:55 – 30:57

management practices that have

30:57 – 30:59

changed. Maybe I'm a better seed

30:59 – 31:00

grower. Maybe it's been five

31:00 – 31:01

years. I'm learning the ropes.

31:01 – 31:04

I don't know. But I don't think

31:04 – 31:05

that's the case.

31:05 – 31:06

I think that maybe I am a better

31:06 – 31:08

seed grower, but I don't think

31:08 – 31:10

that that's increasing my

31:11 – 31:12

germination. But the purity,

31:12 – 31:14

that's never been a problem.

31:15 – 31:18

With most of the weed seeds that

31:18 – 31:19

we have here, they're

31:20 – 31:21

of a

31:21 – 31:23

very different size than our

31:23 – 31:24

alfalfa seeds, so they're easy

31:24 – 31:27

to mill out or to

31:27 – 31:28

get

31:29 – 31:30

out in the combine.

31:30 – 31:31

The combines are able to take

31:31 – 31:32

them out pretty easily.

31:32 – 31:33

The only ones we have a problem

31:33 – 31:35

with are Dotter and Curly Dock,

31:36 – 31:37

and Curly Dock's pretty easy to

31:37 – 31:39

spot. It's bright red out in the

31:39 – 31:40

middle of the field.

31:40 – 31:41

You can go pluck it out

31:41 – 31:42

if you have any.

31:43 – 31:44

And Dotter,

31:45 – 31:46

little harder to spot.

31:46 – 31:47

I did have a bit of

31:47 – 31:49

contamination with daughter this

31:49 – 31:49

year,

31:49 – 31:51

but between me and the seed

31:51 – 31:52

miller aren't sure whether it

31:52 – 31:53

came from

31:53 – 31:56

my field or whether it came from

31:56 – 31:58

either a contaminated combine.

31:59 – 32:01

And it was there was literally

32:01 – 32:02

one daughter in a pound of

32:02 – 32:04

alfalfa seed, which is enough to

32:04 – 32:05

32:05 – 32:06

bring down the purity to

32:07 – 32:08

critical levels.

32:08 – 32:09

They have to run it through

32:09 – 32:11

another machine to clean the

32:11 – 32:12

daughter out.

32:12 – 32:13

But daughter has a rough texture

32:13 – 32:15

on the outside and

32:16 – 32:18

alfalfa seeds are smooth so they

32:18 – 32:18

run it over

32:19 – 32:21

essentially velcro and the

32:21 – 32:23

daughter stick to the velcro and

32:23 – 32:25

the alfalfa seed keep sliding so

32:25 – 32:27

it'll be cleaned out no problem

32:27 – 32:30

and I'll be back into 99 %

32:30 – 32:31

purity.

32:31 – 32:32

Yeah

32:33 – 32:34

all right so

32:35 – 32:37

you mentioned you're

32:37 – 32:39

giving credit to that the

32:39 – 32:40

compost of all the various

32:40 – 32:41

things that you're doing.

32:41 – 32:42

And so far, we've talked

32:42 – 32:43

primarily about the

32:44 – 32:45

reductions in pesticide

32:45 – 32:47

applications. And I still have

32:47 – 32:48

this thing in the back of my

32:48 – 32:48

mind that I'm going to come back

32:48 – 32:50

and talk more about this boron

32:50 – 32:52

issue as well. But let's talk a

32:52 – 32:54

bit about what are some of the

32:54 – 32:55

other changes that you've been

32:55 – 32:55

making?

32:55 – 32:56

You mentioned the inoculation

32:56 – 32:57

and the trace mineral

32:57 – 32:58

applications and things that

32:58 – 32:59

you've been working on.

33:00 – 33:01

Yeah, I inoculated for the first

33:01 – 33:02

time last year.

33:03 – 33:05

My alfalfa seed

33:08 – 33:09

is also one of the changes that

33:09 – 33:11

I made. I only use my own seed

33:11 – 33:14

now, because I make enough that

33:14 – 33:15

I can sell it,

33:16 – 33:18

sell probably 90 % of it and use

33:18 – 33:20

10 % for myself, if not less

33:20 – 33:22

than 10%. You

33:22 – 33:23

don't,

33:23 – 33:24

for the seed that you plant, you

33:24 – 33:25

get a lot more than that off of

33:25 – 33:26

it.

33:27 – 33:30

So I haven't had to buy seed.

33:30 – 33:32

And so I know it's coming off of

33:32 – 33:32

my field,

33:33 – 33:34

my regiment,

33:35 – 33:36

33:36 – 33:38

soil microbiome, all the things

33:38 – 33:40

that are conducive to me having

33:41 – 33:42

a better

33:43 – 33:44

beginning and a better final

33:44 – 33:45

product.

33:46 – 33:49

The micronutrients here in the

33:49 – 33:49

Imperial Valley,

33:50 – 33:51

we would do some soil sampling.

33:51 – 33:52

My dad and I never

33:53 – 33:55

did any petiole samples or

33:55 – 33:57

anything of the sort, but I

33:57 – 33:58

started doing some sap samples

33:58 – 34:01

and working with you guys to get

34:01 – 34:02

34:03 – 34:05

better grasp on the

34:06 – 34:08

soil micronutrients

34:08 – 34:10

and the

34:11 – 34:13

mining of the soil nutrients

34:13 – 34:14

that are in there to help

34:15 – 34:16

get the plant onto a more

34:16 – 34:18

balanced footing and a better,

34:20 – 34:21

just a better base.

34:23 – 34:25

You have some interesting soil

34:25 – 34:26

challenges to deal with, with

34:26 – 34:27

the salinity and the alkalinity

34:27 – 34:29

and the challenges that you have

34:29 – 34:30

there.

34:29 – 34:31

So how have you been addressing

34:31 – 34:32

some of those trace mineral

34:32 – 34:33

imbalances that you've been

34:33 – 34:34

uncovering?

34:35 – 34:36

The main

34:36 – 34:37

one before,

34:37 – 34:39

what we would do is to

34:39 – 34:40

counteract the salts,

34:41 – 34:42

we would put

34:42 – 34:44

a, we have a liquid

34:45 – 34:47

calcium product that we would

34:47 – 34:49

put on and it would help leach

34:49 – 34:51

out the salts, bind the calcium

34:51 – 34:52

to the sodium, help leach it out

34:52 – 34:53

in the tile lines.

34:54 – 34:56

It also increased the, or helped

34:56 – 34:57

with the soil structure.

34:59 – 35:00

So we would do that.

35:00 – 35:02

And then the other thing that we

35:02 – 35:03

would do, because we're on a

35:03 – 35:04

clay soil,

35:04 – 35:05

we would put

35:06 – 35:07

a lot of nitrogen.

35:08 – 35:09

We upped

35:09 – 35:12

our nitrogen depending on what

35:12 – 35:14

we had by up to 20 % on some

35:15 – 35:17

fields, some crops to

35:18 – 35:19

help with. We also have high

35:19 – 35:21

calcium soils, which doesn't

35:21 – 35:22

make any sense that I would put

35:22 – 35:23

calcium on, but,

35:23 – 35:24

you know, the forms of calcium

35:24 – 35:26

are different than

35:26 – 35:28

in that it's a plant available

35:28 – 35:29

calcium.

35:30 – 35:32

So we would do that to manage

35:32 – 35:33

the

35:33 – 35:36

salt and the sodium, I mean, the

35:36 – 35:38

calcium tying everything up.

35:39 – 35:41

Now I'm working to

35:42 – 35:44

use sap samples, look at what's

35:44 – 35:46

going on in the plant, rather

35:46 – 35:47

than just kind of guessing.

35:47 – 35:49

Before we did NPK,

35:49 – 35:50

and we didn't really do a lot of

35:50 – 35:51

35:51 – 35:53

It was mostly nitrogen

35:54 – 35:55

and potassium.

35:56 – 35:58

And then we would do nitrogen

35:58 – 35:59

and phosphorus.

35:59 – 36:00

Yeah, sorry.

36:00 – 36:02

And then we would do a little

36:02 – 36:03

bit of potassium for

36:03 – 36:05

root development here and there.

36:06 – 36:08

And most farmers around here

36:08 – 36:09

don't

36:10 – 36:11

even think about it.

36:12 – 36:14

The only other thing we would do

36:14 – 36:15

that was a little bit

36:15 – 36:17

outside of the norms, we would

36:17 – 36:18

put a

36:18 – 36:20

sulfur solution

36:20 – 36:23

on to help with the nitrogen

36:23 – 36:23

uptake.

36:24 – 36:26

But now I've started working

36:26 – 36:27

with a lot of different

36:27 – 36:29

chemicals that I never even, or

36:29 – 36:30

not chemicals, but

36:30 – 36:31

that I never even thought of,

36:32 – 36:35

like molybdenum and copper.

36:36 – 36:37

The

36:37 – 36:38

only time I ever thought about

36:38 – 36:39

copper before was for a

36:39 – 36:41

fungicide. Now I'm using it for

36:41 – 36:45

increased pollen vitality, for

36:45 – 36:47

just plant vigor.

36:47 – 36:51

And then the molybdenum, I have

36:51 – 36:53

really seen a difference in

36:53 – 36:55

using molybdenum and my

36:55 – 36:56

nitrogen.

36:56 – 36:57

I've cut my nitrogen back by

36:57 – 36:59

about 20 % hopefully gonna cut

36:59 – 37:00

it back a little bit more

37:00 – 37:02

I don't want to cut too much

37:02 – 37:03

back as I've

37:05 – 37:06

heard people say the grounds

37:06 – 37:08

kind of like a drug addict It's

37:08 – 37:10

hooked on all the conventional

37:10 – 37:11

products. You can't just pull it

37:11 – 37:13

off and not give it anything

37:13 – 37:16

It'll it'll kind of seize up and

37:16 – 37:18

well your plant won't be ready

37:18 – 37:19

for it.

37:19 – 37:20

So it'll go through withdrawal

37:20 – 37:22

symptoms So

37:23 – 37:25

that's that's been the main

37:25 – 37:27

changes that I've made has been

37:28 – 37:29

to balance the

37:30 – 37:32

miners so that the

37:33 – 37:35

macro nutrients are more

37:35 – 37:38

plant available and the ones

37:38 – 37:40

that are in the plant are used

37:40 – 37:42

to the highest benefit of the

37:42 – 37:43

plant.

37:43 – 37:44

In those alkaline soil

37:44 – 37:45

conditions, how are you

37:45 – 37:47

addressing those trace minerals?

37:47 – 37:48

Are you adding them in your

37:48 – 37:49

irrigation solution?

37:49 – 37:51

You're adding them to the soil.

37:51 – 37:52

How are you ensuring they get

37:52 – 37:53

into the plant?

37:53 – 37:55

The only trace mineral that I

37:55 – 37:58

apply to the soil is solubor or

37:58 – 38:01

boron through the irrigation

38:01 – 38:01

water.

38:02 – 38:04

And I also put a calcium

38:04 – 38:05

solution in with it when I do

38:05 – 38:07

that. But everything else, any

38:07 – 38:09

of the minors are foliar.

38:09 – 38:10

38:10 – 38:11

don't

38:11 – 38:13

think in our soil that with the

38:13 – 38:15

small amounts that we use,

38:15 – 38:17

it would even make it to the

38:17 – 38:18

plant. I think it would have

38:18 – 38:21

tied up before it even had a

38:21 – 38:22

chance to get into the plant.

38:22 – 38:23

So I've been doing everything

38:23 – 38:24

foliarly.

38:25 – 38:26

Yeah, I think in your soil

38:26 – 38:27

conditions, that's probably

38:27 – 38:28

true.

38:28 – 38:30

And molybdenum actually is quite

38:30 – 38:31

available in alkaline soil

38:31 – 38:33

conditions, but that's an

38:33 – 38:34

exception.

38:36 – 38:38

So you mentioned boron again.

38:40 – 38:42

Remind me, I think you said that

38:42 – 38:44

you applied a pound of boron in

38:44 – 38:45

the irrigation system, and then

38:45 – 38:46

you did some foliar as well in

38:46 – 38:47

your alfalfa seed production?

38:48 – 38:49

So,

38:49 – 38:51

almost everything I put boron

38:51 – 38:54

when I went through foliarly,

38:54 – 38:56

I would put boron.

38:56 – 38:59

And now, everything that I do

38:59 – 39:01

with an irrigation, I put at

39:01 – 39:02

least one boron application,

39:03 – 39:04

and it is

39:04 – 39:07

five pounds to the acre

39:07 – 39:09

of soluble borer.

39:09 – 39:10

One pound per acre of actual

39:10 – 39:11

boron.

39:11 – 39:12

Oh,

39:12 – 39:13

yes.

39:13 – 39:13

Yeah.

39:13 – 39:14

Sorry, because it's a 20 %

39:14 – 39:15

solution. Yes.

39:16 – 39:18

What does your total boron

39:18 – 39:20

application look like over the

39:20 – 39:21

course of an entire 12 -month

39:21 – 39:21

season?

39:23 – 39:25

It's probably about,

39:27 – 39:30

I would say, between 6 and 7

39:30 – 39:32

pounds of boron depending

39:33 – 39:35

on however many waters I get and

39:35 – 39:36

cuttings.

39:36 – 39:38

Because every cutting I try and

39:38 – 39:39

put

39:39 – 39:41

an application of boron since

39:41 – 39:44

I've taken, if I do cut for

39:45 – 39:47

hay, I will put another

39:47 – 39:49

application of boron because I

39:49 – 39:50

just, you know, you're bailing

39:50 – 39:51

it off.

39:51 – 39:51

You're taking all the nutrients

39:51 – 39:52

out of the field.

39:52 – 39:54

But if I sheep it off, I won't,

39:54 – 39:56

I will probably do, I'll

39:56 – 39:57

probably skip that one and put

39:57 – 39:58

it on the next one.

39:58 – 39:59

So again,

40:00 – 40:01

just for clarification, when you

40:01 – 40:02

say six or seven pounds over the

40:02 – 40:03

course of the season, you're

40:03 – 40:05

referring to pounds of actual

40:05 – 40:05

boron.

40:06 – 40:06

Yes.

40:07 – 40:09

So I do, I do five pounds per

40:09 – 40:11

cutting of

40:11 – 40:14

alfalfa. So it ends up being

40:14 – 40:15

between five and six.

40:15 – 40:16

Yeah.

40:17 – 40:18

Yeah, so.

40:21 – 40:22

have it sounds what you're

40:22 – 40:24

describing is all is this

40:24 – 40:25

magical combination.

40:26 – 40:27

I've observed it in a number of

40:27 – 40:28

areas around the country where

40:29 – 40:30

you have

40:30 – 40:32

high calcium soils,

40:32 – 40:33

you have a strong calcium

40:33 – 40:35

foundation to work from.

40:35 – 40:35

And then, of course, you're

40:35 – 40:37

adding further calcium that is

40:37 – 40:38

actually plant available.

40:39 – 40:40

And

40:40 – 40:41

against

40:42 – 40:42

that

40:42 – 40:44

foundation of calcium, you are

40:44 – 40:45

leveraging boron.

40:46 – 40:47

And it seems every time I see

40:47 – 40:48

that

40:48 – 40:49

that

40:50 – 40:51

that combination,

40:52 – 40:54

Not only are there very strong

40:54 – 40:55

quality responses,

40:55 – 40:56

but there are also consistently

40:56 – 40:58

just simply exceptional yield

40:58 – 40:59

responses where we get very

40:59 – 41:00

strong yields.

41:00 – 41:02

So since you've been, how long

41:02 – 41:03

have you been doing the boron

41:03 – 41:03

and what,

41:04 – 41:05

aside, we spoke about the ligus

41:05 – 41:06

beetle,

41:06 – 41:07

the change in ligus beetle

41:07 – 41:08

pressure and insect pressure,

41:08 – 41:09

but

41:09 – 41:10

what changes have you observed

41:10 – 41:12

in crop yield and performance

41:12 – 41:13

and quality since you started

41:13 – 41:14

doing that?

41:16 – 41:17

The crop yield hasn't changed

41:17 – 41:18

just yet.

41:19 – 41:20

Our soils are very,

41:20 – 41:23

where I am, are extremely high

41:23 – 41:24

clay.

41:24 – 41:25

So most

41:26 – 41:27

things change very slowly in

41:27 – 41:28

there.

41:28 – 41:31

When you start adding minor

41:31 – 41:32

nutrients, they get tied up

41:32 – 41:34

pretty fast. They don't

41:34 – 41:36

show up in the plant for at

41:36 – 41:38

least a couple of years if you

41:38 – 41:39

do a

41:40 – 41:41

long -term treatment.

41:42 – 41:44

But the quality of the plants

41:44 – 41:46

has changed drastically.

41:47 – 41:48

The

41:48 – 41:50

Bermuda we watered back after

41:50 – 41:51

our seed harvest,

41:53 – 41:54

Because it's so hot here, we

41:54 – 41:55

have to keep it alive.

41:56 – 41:56

If we don't water it,

41:57 – 41:59

it'll die. You'll lose half

41:59 – 42:02

the established crop.

42:03 – 42:05

So I watered it back,

42:05 – 42:06

and

42:06 – 42:08

no fertilizer whatsoever, just

42:08 – 42:09

put

42:09 – 42:11

irrigation water on it.

42:11 – 42:12

And I had people calling me

42:12 – 42:13

asking me how much fertilizer I

42:13 – 42:14

put, how many pounds of

42:14 – 42:16

nitrogen. did I have on because

42:16 – 42:17

it looked

42:17 – 42:18

better than

42:18 – 42:20

any other fields around the

42:20 – 42:20

area.

42:21 – 42:22

And I had not put,

42:22 – 42:23

granted, there's probably some

42:23 – 42:25

residual from the

42:26 – 42:28

Bermuda crop before,

42:28 – 42:30

but not that much to

42:31 – 42:32

where it would look this

42:32 – 42:33

vigorous and

42:35 – 42:36

healthy.

42:37 – 42:38

So that's one of the things that

42:38 – 42:40

I've noticed is the plant

42:40 – 42:42

bounces back.

42:42 – 42:43

a lot better.

42:43 – 42:45

I've got two alfalfa fields that

42:45 – 42:46

are side by side.

42:46 – 42:48

One was inoculated and treated

42:48 – 42:50

with the boron all year long.

42:51 – 42:54

One wasn't inoculated and got a

42:54 – 42:55

boron treatment during its seed

42:55 – 42:56

production,

42:57 – 42:59

and I'm going to have to replant

42:59 – 43:00

that entire field.

43:00 – 43:02

The one that was inoculated and

43:02 – 43:03

got the boron,

43:03 – 43:04

I don't know if I'm going to

43:04 – 43:05

have to replant it all.

43:06 – 43:08

It came back from the summer and

43:08 – 43:09

is looking

43:10 – 43:11

It's ragged right now.

43:11 – 43:13

It needs to be sheathed off and

43:13 – 43:13

cleaned up.

43:14 – 43:15

But

43:15 – 43:17

none of it died.

43:17 – 43:19

Usually here, we have such a hot

43:19 – 43:20

summer,

43:20 – 43:21

and our soils are so tight

43:22 – 43:24

that the water sits on it for

43:24 – 43:26

too long, and it will scald out

43:26 – 43:27

the alfalfa. In some

43:28 – 43:29

fields, you'll lose the entire

43:29 – 43:30

field.

43:30 – 43:31

Other fields, you'll lose

43:31 – 43:32

50%.

43:32 – 43:34

And then on the sandier soils,

43:34 – 43:36

you don't lose any, because it

43:36 – 43:37

doesn't sit. It's on and off so

43:37 – 43:38

fast.

43:38 – 43:40

But all the boron fields have

43:40 – 43:41

come back.

43:42 – 43:44

a lot faster and a lot healthier

43:44 – 43:45

than the fields that didn't have

43:45 – 43:46

it.

43:46 – 43:47

You mentioned the inoculation as

43:47 – 43:48

well.

43:47 – 43:48

Was it inoculated with

43:48 – 43:49

mycorrhizal fungi?

43:49 – 43:50

What was the inoculation?

43:51 – 43:53

With your product,

43:54 – 43:55

the PBS.

43:56 – 43:57

The BioCoat Gold?

43:57 – 43:59

No, well, BioCoat Gold was in

43:59 – 44:00

the seed, but I inoculated the

44:00 – 44:01

soil with...

44:02 – 44:03

I'm drawing a blank on the name,

44:03 – 44:04

but it's... Spectrum.

44:05 – 44:07

Yeah, Spectrum PBS, the...

44:07 – 44:08

Yep,

44:09 – 44:10

Phosphorus Soluble.

44:10 – 44:10

bacteria.

44:11 – 44:13

So that was because I had a lot

44:13 – 44:14

44:15 – 44:16

tied up phosphorus,

44:16 – 44:17

we decided that that would be

44:17 – 44:18

the way to go.

44:18 – 44:20

I think this year we're going to

44:20 – 44:22

switch to the DS because of all

44:22 – 44:25

the salinity and because it's a

44:25 – 44:26

lot of drought stress in the

44:26 – 44:27

summertime.

44:27 – 44:30

But the phosphorus solubilizing

44:30 – 44:31

bacteria,

44:31 – 44:32

I think it did a great job

44:32 – 44:34

because I never ran low on

44:34 – 44:35

phosphorus and I never applied

44:35 – 44:36

any.

44:37 – 44:39

So I have a follow -up question

44:39 – 44:41

on the boron with the boron soil

44:41 – 44:42

applications.

44:44 – 44:46

You mentioned your high clay

44:46 – 44:47

content soils and you sometimes

44:47 – 44:49

have difficulty getting applied

44:49 – 44:51

trace minerals and minor

44:51 – 44:52

elements into the plant.

44:53 – 44:54

How have you seen boron move

44:54 – 44:56

from that soil application in

44:56 – 44:57

the SAP analysis?

44:59 – 45:00

I've seen it

45:00 – 45:02

in the SAP analysis.

45:02 – 45:04

It showed up not nearly as

45:04 – 45:06

strong as for the application

45:06 – 45:07

because it's

45:09 – 45:09

It's just not getting in the

45:09 – 45:11

plant. Where it really showed up

45:11 – 45:13

and you could see it moving was

45:13 – 45:15

the foliar application of the

45:15 – 45:16

boron.

45:15 – 45:18

But it's just so easy to put the

45:18 – 45:19

soluble in the water.

45:20 – 45:21

And it's cheap.

45:21 – 45:22

Exactly.

45:22 – 45:23

That I do that.

45:23 – 45:24

But I'll

45:25 – 45:27

never depend on that anymore now

45:27 – 45:29

that I've seen an entire year of

45:29 – 45:30

foliar applications,

45:30 – 45:33

which was never a thing on our

45:33 – 45:34

ranch that we did.

45:34 – 45:35

We ran everything.

45:35 – 45:38

Either we dry spread urea and 11

45:38 – 45:39

-52.

45:39 – 45:41

or we water ran all of our

45:41 – 45:43

other fertilizer, our liquid

45:43 – 45:45

UN32s and AN20s and things like

45:45 – 45:46

that.

45:48 – 45:49

I will

45:49 – 45:51

never not do a foliar spray

45:51 – 45:53

going forward because I just

45:53 – 45:54

have seen

45:54 – 45:55

the

45:55 – 45:58

value of it in how fast it gets

45:58 – 45:59

into the plant and the

46:00 – 46:02

small amounts that I can get

46:03 – 46:04

a large boost

46:05 – 46:06

in the plant using,

46:08 – 46:09

I mean, if I were to run it in

46:09 – 46:10

the water, it would get so lost

46:10 – 46:13

in my water that it wouldn't.

46:13 – 46:14

Yeah, you don't even see

46:14 – 46:15

anything.

46:15 – 46:15

Yeah.

46:15 – 46:17

So but if you put it on, I put

46:17 – 46:17

it on foliarly,

46:18 – 46:20

I have a big spray boom, I go

46:20 – 46:21

through there, I can knock out a

46:21 – 46:23

field in a day,

46:24 – 46:25

and then we water right

46:25 – 46:27

afterwards. And it's, it's

46:27 – 46:28

great.

46:29 – 46:30

Out of curiosity, what form of

46:30 – 46:31

boron were you using in your

46:31 – 46:31

foliar?

46:32 – 46:33

Rebound.

46:33 – 46:34

Rebound boron.

46:34 – 46:35

It's an important point, and

46:35 – 46:38

I've posted a couple of clips on

46:38 – 46:39

this, but it's worth

46:39 – 46:40

reiterating, reminding people,

46:40 – 46:41

because we get these awesome

46:41 – 46:43

results from boron.

46:45 – 46:46

There's a handful of crops that

46:46 – 46:48

can thrive and can transport

46:49 – 46:50

solubor if it's applied as a

46:50 – 46:51

foliar, but for the most part,

46:52 – 46:52

you have to have the chelated

46:52 – 46:54

boron. Otherwise, it's phloem

46:54 – 46:55

immobile. You apply solubor, and

46:55 – 46:56

you don't

46:57 – 46:59

get the types of responses that

46:59 – 47:00

you're describing that you

47:00 – 47:02

experienced, and then people are

47:02 – 47:03

puzzled about why that is the

47:03 – 47:04

case.

47:04 – 47:05

That's what I found with almost

47:05 – 47:06

any of the fertilizers.

47:07 – 47:09

The company that I also work

47:09 – 47:11

for, we have a chelated sulfur,

47:11 – 47:12

potassium,

47:13 – 47:14

and phosphorus that

47:15 – 47:19

is 95 % available,

47:19 – 47:20

as opposed to the opposite in

47:20 – 47:23

1152, that's 95 % tied up.

47:23 – 47:24

And

47:24 – 47:26

it gets into the plant, it

47:26 – 47:27

moves,

47:27 – 47:28

it's,

47:28 – 47:29

you can, I mean, they've,

47:29 – 47:30

the

47:31 – 47:33

company that started it has a,

47:35 – 47:36

where they did the radioactive

47:36 – 47:37

dyeing, you can see it moving

47:37 – 47:38

through the plant.

47:38 – 47:40

You can see how fast it gets in

47:40 – 47:41

as compared to

47:41 – 47:42

standard

47:43 – 47:46

1034s, 1152s that just

47:46 – 47:48

get tied up in the soil and

47:48 – 47:50

don't make it into the plant.

47:51 – 47:51

But

47:51 – 47:52

the foliar with

47:55 – 47:58

any of the foliar applications,

47:58 – 48:00

I've just seen 10 times more

48:00 – 48:02

activity and availability, even

48:02 – 48:03

then the chelated stuff running

48:03 – 48:05

in the water at, you know, we'll

48:05 – 48:07

run 25 gallons of

48:09 – 48:11

phosphate in the water,

48:11 – 48:12

which is,

48:12 – 48:13

it sounds like a lot, but it's,

48:13 – 48:15

it's really not because it's,

48:15 – 48:16

it's like a 1 % solution

48:17 – 48:18

of,

48:18 – 48:19

or I guess it's

48:19 – 48:21

6 % solution, but it's,

48:22 – 48:24

it's all available to the plant,

48:24 – 48:25

but

48:25 – 48:27

doing a foliar application,

48:27 – 48:29

it's night and day, even to

48:29 – 48:30

water running,

48:30 – 48:32

high quality products like I

48:32 – 48:33

use.

48:33 – 48:35

The foliar just is, it outshines

48:35 – 48:36

10 times.

48:38 – 48:40

On a couple of occasions, you've

48:40 – 48:42

mentioned sheeping off the

48:42 – 48:44

alfalfa and perhaps the Bermudas

48:44 – 48:46

as well. And one of the things

48:46 – 48:46

that

48:47 – 48:49

I've observed is that anytime

48:49 – 48:50

you add,

48:50 – 48:51

when you have these generous

48:51 – 48:52

levels of boron, I think if

48:53 – 48:55

there is any one mineral

48:56 – 48:58

or any one nutrient that I would

48:58 – 49:00

associate with a high Brix

49:00 – 49:01

content, higher sugar content,

49:01 – 49:02

it's probably boron.

49:03 – 49:05

It has almost the most direct

49:05 – 49:06

analog, obviously,

49:06 – 49:07

elevated sugar production is

49:07 – 49:09

involved. There's a suite of

49:09 – 49:10

nutrients that are involved in

49:10 – 49:11

that process, not just one, but

49:11 – 49:13

boron has perhaps the most

49:13 – 49:14

direct analog effect.

49:16 – 49:17

And so,

49:17 – 49:19

quite commonly, I see

49:19 – 49:21

improved palatability and

49:21 – 49:23

desirability on forages from

49:23 – 49:24

higher boron applications.

49:25 – 49:27

Do you have any indicators from

49:27 – 49:29

the sheep or any livestock of

49:29 – 49:30

changes in perception and

49:30 – 49:31

quality?

49:32 – 49:33

Yeah.

49:33 – 49:36

So on the sheep production or on

49:36 – 49:38

the sheeping off the field,

49:40 – 49:40

two fields I was talking about

49:40 – 49:42

that had the late season born

49:42 – 49:44

application and then the born

49:44 – 49:47

application and inoculation all

49:47 – 49:48

year long,

49:48 – 49:51

the sheep fed for about seven

49:51 – 49:54

days per block on the

49:54 – 49:55

standard field.

49:55 – 49:57

And then on the inoculated field

49:57 – 49:58

treated with the boron, they got

49:58 – 50:01

at least one more day per block.

50:01 – 50:04

Some of them were two days per

50:04 – 50:05

block.

50:05 – 50:06

And the

50:08 – 50:10

fields, when we would bale them

50:10 – 50:11

off,

50:11 – 50:13

are almost identical in yield.

50:14 – 50:15

They're

50:15 – 50:16

very similar

50:17 – 50:20

size, very similar ground

50:21 – 50:22

type.

50:23 – 50:25

they would always, actually the

50:25 – 50:26

one that was untreated would

50:26 – 50:28

usually beat the other field by

50:28 – 50:29

a little bit,

50:30 – 50:30

maybe two

50:31 – 50:32

or three

50:32 – 50:34

hundred males, something like

50:34 – 50:35

that,

50:34 – 50:35

not a lot.

50:36 – 50:37

But

50:37 – 50:39

in this case, the sheep were in

50:39 – 50:40

there and they ate on it.

50:40 – 50:42

And I took seven acres of that

50:42 – 50:44

field out and put in agave.

50:44 – 50:47

So the field was even seven

50:47 – 50:48

acres smaller than the other

50:48 – 50:49

field.

50:49 – 50:51

They're 140 acre fields apiece.

50:51 – 50:53

So we were looking at 130

50:53 – 50:54

compared to 140.

50:55 – 50:57

And they fed for a total of

50:57 – 50:59

about five and a half days more

51:00 – 51:01

51:01 – 51:03

the treated field.

51:04 – 51:06

So if I'm following your train

51:06 – 51:07

of thought here, you're

51:06 – 51:07

describing that

51:08 – 51:09

there were

51:10 – 51:12

there were smaller yields in

51:12 – 51:14

terms of biomass per acre, but

51:14 – 51:16

larger yields in terms of animal

51:16 – 51:17

feed days per acre.

51:17 – 51:18

In other words, the animals were

51:18 – 51:20

getting more out of the forage.

51:20 – 51:21

They were more satiated with

51:21 – 51:21

what they were feeding.

51:21 – 51:22

Is that is that what you're

51:22 – 51:23

describing?

51:23 – 51:24

Yeah. Sorry, I kind of rambled

51:24 – 51:25

around a little bit right there.

51:25 – 51:26

I had a bunch of thoughts

51:26 – 51:27

bouncing around in my head.

51:28 – 51:30

But so, yes, the animals fed

51:30 – 51:31

longer

51:31 – 51:33

on the field that was treated

51:33 – 51:35

compared to the field that

51:35 – 51:35

wasn't.

51:36 – 51:38

But when we would cut them,

51:38 – 51:39

Historically,

51:40 – 51:41

those fields yielded almost

51:41 – 51:42

identical.

51:44 – 51:46

And then I also have taken

51:46 – 51:48

acreage out of the treated field

51:48 – 51:50

for agave.

51:50 – 51:53

So there's even less acreage on

51:53 – 51:55

that field and the sheep fed for

51:55 – 51:57

five to six days more

51:57 – 51:59

on the treated field.

52:00 – 52:02

Yeah, got it. So when we think

52:02 – 52:03

about observations around

52:03 – 52:05

quality, we spoke a little bit

52:05 – 52:06

about alfalfa seed.

52:06 – 52:07

We spoke about the livestock

52:07 – 52:08

indicators. We haven't really

52:08 – 52:09

talked about the Bermuda grass.

52:09 – 52:11

Have there been any observations

52:11 – 52:12

of improved quality with the

52:12 – 52:13

Bermuda grass seed production?

52:14 – 52:15

This

52:15 – 52:17

was a bad year to

52:17 – 52:19

try to evaluate that.

52:19 – 52:20

We've got a water program here

52:20 – 52:22

where we were

52:23 – 52:24

able to shut off our water,

52:25 – 52:26

able,

52:26 – 52:28

we were compensated for shutting

52:28 – 52:31

off our water for two months in

52:31 – 52:33

the summer, and I

52:34 – 52:35

didn't see the writing on the

52:35 – 52:37

wall. It was too late when they

52:37 – 52:39

had us do it. We did it August

52:39 – 52:40

and October,

52:40 – 52:41

which this was one of our

52:41 – 52:43

hottest October, last October,

52:43 – 52:45

was one of our hottest Octobers.

52:45 – 52:47

I think on record, we broke at

52:47 – 52:50

least two records during the

52:50 – 52:51

year for high temperatures.

52:52 – 52:55

I saw 118 in the middle of

52:55 – 52:55

October.

52:58 – 53:00

And it dried out the fields so

53:00 – 53:03

much that I think it killed at

53:03 – 53:03

least half

53:04 – 53:06

of the established Bermuda that

53:06 – 53:07

was out there.

53:07 – 53:10

So the seed yield this year was

53:10 – 53:11

terrible.

53:13 – 53:15

Luckily this year the the same

53:15 – 53:17

program is going on, but we were

53:17 – 53:18

able to choose a different date.

53:19 – 53:20

I did mine earlier I'm already

53:20 – 53:22

out of the program and watering

53:22 – 53:24

again in our hottest months So

53:24 – 53:25

53:26 – 53:27

hasn't seen nearly the effect

53:27 – 53:30

that it did last time so

53:30 – 53:30

hopefully next year.

53:30 – 53:32

I'll be able to see some

53:32 – 53:33

improvements,

53:34 – 53:37

but this this year the field

53:37 – 53:38

that

53:40 – 53:42

was completely treated with

53:42 – 53:44

inoculation boron all of it is

53:45 – 53:46

And I

53:46 – 53:49

didn't listen to my

53:49 – 53:51

AEA advisor.

53:51 – 53:53

And he told me to only take the

53:53 – 53:54

nitrogen down by 20%.

53:54 – 53:57

I have a bad habit of if 20 % is

53:57 – 53:59

good, then 50 % is better.

53:59 – 54:01

So I took my nitrogen down way,

54:01 – 54:02

way lower than you're supposed

54:02 – 54:03

to, which is why I know now that

54:03 – 54:05

plants go into withdrawals.

54:06 – 54:07

But

54:07 – 54:09

it produced the same as the

54:09 – 54:10

field next door that had the

54:10 – 54:11

full standard

54:12 – 54:13

regimen on it.

54:13 – 54:15

So I definitely think the minor

54:15 – 54:16

nutrients attributed to that,

54:16 – 54:18

and I would, I kind of regret,

54:18 – 54:20

not kind of, I 100 % regret not

54:20 – 54:22

putting the full

54:22 – 54:25

nitrogen package on there,

54:25 – 54:27

plus the minors to see what it

54:27 – 54:27

would have done.

54:27 – 54:30

But it was the same yield on the

54:30 – 54:31

two fields that

54:32 – 54:33

had the same treatment,

54:33 – 54:35

or had the different treatments.

54:35 – 54:37

And I had about 50 % less

54:37 – 54:38

nitrogen on the

54:39 – 54:40

treated field.

54:41 – 54:42

So Jay, I've got to ask the

54:42 – 54:44

question. You're a PCA, you make

54:44 – 54:44

lots of pesticide

54:44 – 54:45

recommendations.

54:46 – 54:48

How are these experiences that

54:48 – 54:49

you're having on your own farm

54:49 – 54:50

influencing the recommendations

54:50 – 54:51

you're making for other people?

54:53 – 54:56

I definitely try and I've

54:56 – 54:58

always been the guy that trained

54:58 – 54:59

me.

55:01 – 55:04

was very frugal with the way he

55:04 – 55:05

managed his fields for his farm.

55:05 – 55:07

It had nothing to do with plant

55:07 – 55:09

health. He just wanted to do the

55:09 – 55:10

best job monetarily that he

55:10 – 55:12

could for his growers.

55:12 – 55:14

And he passed that along to me

55:14 – 55:15

in the way that we manage

55:15 – 55:16

fields.

55:16 – 55:17

You have

55:18 – 55:19

55:18 – 55:20

tailor it to your grower.

55:21 – 55:23

Some growers want no bugs

55:23 – 55:24

whatsoever. If they see a gnat

55:24 – 55:25

flying around that doesn't even

55:25 – 55:27

have mouthparts, they want those

55:27 – 55:28

sprayed.

55:29 – 55:31

On other farmers that are

55:31 – 55:33

willing to take a little bit of

55:33 – 55:34

damage,

55:34 – 55:36

but not

55:36 – 55:38

have the cost of the spray.

55:39 – 55:40

Those are the ones you can

55:40 – 55:42

really dig in and start working

55:42 – 55:43

with.

55:42 – 55:44

And maybe you can skip a spray

55:44 – 55:45

on one of the

55:45 – 55:47

cuttings, but it's definitely,

55:48 – 55:50

that was already part of my DNA.

55:51 – 55:53

And now that I'm seeing this,

55:54 – 55:56

I can use my experiences on my

55:56 – 55:57

fields.

55:56 – 55:57

And I'm always the canary in the

55:57 – 55:59

coal mine that

55:59 – 56:03

does stuff first with any,

56:04 – 56:07

new treatments or new products

56:07 – 56:09

that we have because I farm and

56:09 – 56:12

I work for a fertilizer slash

56:12 – 56:12

chemical company.

56:13 – 56:14

How does how does this work that

56:14 – 56:15

you work for a fertilizer

56:15 – 56:16

company and you're using AEA

56:16 – 56:17

products?

56:18 – 56:19

And hopefully they don't hear

56:19 – 56:19

this.

56:21 – 56:24

He understands my I have a great

56:24 – 56:27

boss and he understands that I

56:27 – 56:28

56:28 – 56:30

able to I'm able to go out and

56:30 – 56:31

use other products.

56:31 – 56:31

They don't carry these products.

56:32 – 56:34

We have some, but they're

56:35 – 56:37

Most of our stuff is very

56:37 – 56:37

conventional.

56:38 – 56:41

To be clear, Jay, you are one of

56:41 – 56:42

many.

56:42 – 56:43

You're just the first one that's

56:43 – 56:44

in that particular spot that

56:44 – 56:45

I've happened to have on the

56:45 – 56:46

show and interview.

56:47 – 56:49

You know, my boss understands

56:49 – 56:51

that there's other products out

56:51 – 56:52

there. We're not the only game

56:52 – 56:53

in town.

56:53 – 56:56

I don't go recommending other

56:56 – 56:56

products.

56:57 – 56:59

I will tell people what I put on

56:59 – 57:00

mine.

57:00 – 57:02

It was on my Instagram and I had

57:02 – 57:04

a friend of mine

57:04 – 57:05

that kind of laughed, but he's

57:05 – 57:06

like, so are you just

57:07 – 57:09

kind of putting this out there

57:09 – 57:10

hoping that your boss doesn't

57:10 – 57:10

see it? I said, yeah, that's

57:10 – 57:11

exactly what I'm hoping.

57:12 – 57:14

But if they work, they work.

57:15 – 57:18

And that's just the nuts and

57:18 – 57:19

bolts of it. If a product works,

57:19 – 57:22

it works. And I'm not ever going

57:22 – 57:22

57:22 – 57:24

say one of our products is

57:24 – 57:25

better than another when it

57:25 – 57:26

isn't. If there's another

57:26 – 57:28

product that another company has

57:28 – 57:29

that is better,

57:29 – 57:31

I'll recommend that they go use

57:31 – 57:32

that product.

57:33 – 57:35

But if we have one that works,

57:35 – 57:38

I will always recommend mine or

57:38 – 57:39

my company's

57:40 – 57:41

before I recommend another, but

57:41 – 57:43

when they, the products work,

57:43 – 57:44

they work.

57:44 – 57:45

And so I

57:46 – 57:48

have definitely moved my

57:48 – 57:49

management practices more to

57:49 – 57:52

nutrients than to

57:52 – 57:55

chemistry, depending on,

57:55 – 57:56

um,

57:57 – 57:58

just coming in and doing a

57:58 – 57:59

rescue spray.

57:59 – 58:01

My wife laughs because my wife

58:01 – 58:04

is like maha movement to the

58:04 – 58:06

max. She loves all of the

58:06 – 58:08

natural foods. And I don't even

58:08 – 58:09

think we have Florida in our

58:09 – 58:10

toothpaste anymore.

58:10 – 58:12

So she

58:12 – 58:15

always asks me about things.

58:15 – 58:18

And my stance is that I

58:18 – 58:20

believe pesticides and

58:20 – 58:21

herbicides and fungicides

58:22 – 58:23

are a

58:24 – 58:26

necessary evil to for lack of a

58:26 – 58:27

better term, that they're a

58:27 – 58:28

they're a tool that

58:30 – 58:31

should be used

58:31 – 58:33

like you would any other tool.

58:34 – 58:35

They're not

58:35 – 58:37

everything that you should be

58:37 – 58:38

using. You should look at all

58:38 – 58:40

aspects of it. You can't use a

58:40 – 58:41

hammer to take out a screw.

58:41 – 58:42

You have to use a screwdriver.

58:43 – 58:45

So that's the way I look at

58:45 – 58:48

pesticides and herbicides is

58:49 – 58:52

if they work in this situation,

58:52 – 58:52

and

58:53 – 58:54

that's all that you can use, say

58:54 – 58:56

you're getting eaten up by worms

58:56 – 58:58

or weevil or something along

58:58 – 58:59

those lines,

58:59 – 59:01

and you don't have time to

59:01 – 59:02

manage the nutrients,

59:03 – 59:04

Yeah, absolutely.

59:04 – 59:05

Go in and spray because it's a

59:05 – 59:07

lot better getting a yield and

59:07 – 59:10

having to spray than getting

59:10 – 59:10

eaten up and not getting

59:10 – 59:11

anything.

59:11 – 59:12

But now next year, learn from

59:12 – 59:13

that

59:13 – 59:14

and

59:14 – 59:16

manage your nutrition like

59:17 – 59:19

you should and pay

59:19 – 59:20

attention to those things.

59:20 – 59:22

And eventually you can get to

59:22 – 59:23

the point where you're not using

59:23 – 59:24

them,

59:24 – 59:25

but for emergencies.

59:26 – 59:27

Where you just went with this

59:27 – 59:29

conversation, Jay, is so

59:29 – 59:30

important. And it was

59:58 – 59:59

I think it's this that

59:59 – 1:00:03

foundation of integrity that has

1:00:03 – 1:00:04

really

1:00:04 – 1:00:06

allowed us to have the impact

1:00:06 – 1:00:07

that we have as a company

1:00:07 – 1:00:07

because

1:00:08 – 1:00:10

we only we don't we don't have a

1:00:10 – 1:00:12

universal product lineup and we

1:00:12 – 1:00:14

recommend many products that are

1:00:14 – 1:00:15

not a part of our lineup.

1:00:15 – 1:00:16

And I think it's to

1:00:17 – 1:00:18

me, that's that's that is a mark

1:00:18 – 1:00:20

of integrity in agronomic

1:00:20 – 1:00:21

recommendations when you're

1:00:21 – 1:00:22

willing to take and to truly

1:00:22 – 1:00:24

advise and recommend what is

1:00:24 – 1:00:25

what is the best and produces

1:00:25 – 1:00:26

the best response.

1:00:28 – 1:00:28

And it

1:00:29 – 1:00:31

occurs to me that in what you

1:00:31 – 1:00:31

were just describing,

1:00:33 – 1:00:35

about pesticides, from a

1:00:35 – 1:00:36

pesticide use perspective, being

1:00:36 – 1:00:37

a necessary evil.

1:00:38 – 1:00:39

The

1:00:40 – 1:00:41

challenge or

1:00:42 – 1:00:44

the conundrum is that

1:00:44 – 1:00:46

the knowledge and the

1:00:46 – 1:00:47

information to,

1:00:49 – 1:00:51

as well as the incentives for

1:00:51 – 1:00:52

integrity of recommendations

1:00:52 – 1:00:55

related to pest management, the

1:00:55 – 1:00:56

conversation we were just having

1:00:56 – 1:00:57

around boron, for example,

1:00:57 – 1:00:59

and the responses that you saw

1:00:59 – 1:01:00

with

1:01:00 – 1:01:03

ligus bug pressure on alfalfa,

1:01:03 – 1:01:04

like there are...

1:01:05 – 1:01:07

That is... This knowledge of how

1:01:07 – 1:01:09

to use nutrition management for

1:01:09 – 1:01:10

disease control and insect

1:01:10 – 1:01:11

control is knowledge

1:01:11 – 1:01:14

that I would desire, and many

1:01:14 – 1:01:15

other people I'm sure would also

1:01:15 – 1:01:16

desire, to be much more widely

1:01:16 – 1:01:18

known and understood in

1:01:18 – 1:01:19

agronomy. And so there are

1:01:20 – 1:01:22

many people who have integrity,

1:01:23 – 1:01:24

but who perhaps lack that

1:01:24 – 1:01:26

integrity. knowledge to truly

1:01:26 – 1:01:28

make the best recommendations

1:01:28 – 1:01:29

from

1:01:29 – 1:01:32

this nutrition versus pesticide

1:01:32 – 1:01:32

dimension.

1:01:33 – 1:01:35

And that's an interesting place

1:01:35 – 1:01:36

to find ourselves in.

1:01:38 – 1:01:39

I completely agree with you.

1:01:39 – 1:01:41

It's one of the things that

1:01:41 – 1:01:42

has...

1:01:43 – 1:01:44

I like the products for one, but

1:01:44 – 1:01:45

1:01:45 – 1:01:46

just...

1:01:47 – 1:01:48

put him out there and let him

1:01:48 – 1:01:49

know how much I appreciate it.

1:01:49 – 1:01:51

Pedro has been fantastic.

1:01:52 – 1:01:54

There are very few times that

1:01:54 – 1:01:55

I've seen

1:01:55 – 1:01:57

someone that's selling something

1:01:57 – 1:02:00

look at a

1:02:01 – 1:02:03

soil sample or even just a field

1:02:03 – 1:02:05

and say,

1:02:05 – 1:02:06

yeah,

1:02:06 – 1:02:06

everything's good.

1:02:07 – 1:02:07

I think we're good.

1:02:07 – 1:02:08

I don't think we need to do

1:02:08 – 1:02:09

anything. And at

1:02:10 – 1:02:12

least a couple of times he don't

1:02:12 – 1:02:13

get him in trouble for this.

1:02:13 – 1:02:15

He has said,

1:02:15 – 1:02:16

no, you're good.

1:02:16 – 1:02:17

Everything looks fine.

1:02:17 – 1:02:18

I don't think we need to apply

1:02:18 – 1:02:19

anything. And

1:02:19 – 1:02:20

that

1:02:21 – 1:02:23

solidified my relationship with

1:02:23 – 1:02:26

him as a customer because I

1:02:26 – 1:02:27

knew he was taking the same

1:02:27 – 1:02:28

approach that I do.

1:02:29 – 1:02:31

That I have talked farmers out

1:02:31 – 1:02:32

1:02:33 – 1:02:34

chemicals

1:02:35 – 1:02:37

or putting extra nitrogen or

1:02:37 – 1:02:39

something like that on because I

1:02:39 – 1:02:41

didn't think they would need it

1:02:41 – 1:02:43

as opposed to just being a

1:02:43 – 1:02:44

salesman and pushing the sale

1:02:44 – 1:02:46

and making more recommendations.

1:02:46 – 1:02:48

I had a conversation with a co

1:02:48 – 1:02:49

-worker of mine

1:02:49 – 1:02:51

And he was asking me what

1:02:51 – 1:02:53

because I he has a very good

1:02:53 – 1:02:56

grasp of the basic

1:02:56 – 1:02:59

NPK and some of our calcium.

1:02:59 – 1:03:01

And we have another amino acid

1:03:01 – 1:03:02

product that we that our company

1:03:02 – 1:03:03

makes.

1:03:03 – 1:03:04

And

1:03:04 – 1:03:06

he is instrumental in a couple

1:03:06 – 1:03:07

of getting those off the ground

1:03:07 – 1:03:09

and getting them into farmers

1:03:09 – 1:03:10

hands and showing them how to

1:03:10 – 1:03:11

use them.

1:03:11 – 1:03:13

And I pick his brain constantly

1:03:13 – 1:03:16

because he's been in the in the

1:03:16 – 1:03:17

industry about 10 years longer

1:03:17 – 1:03:17

than I have.

1:03:18 – 1:03:19

And he

1:03:19 – 1:03:20

started asking me questions.

1:03:20 – 1:03:21

why are you asking me that?

1:03:21 – 1:03:23

What's going on with this

1:03:23 – 1:03:24

direction of questions?

1:03:24 – 1:03:26

Because he knows I'm a PCA.

1:03:26 – 1:03:29

And I told him, I said, I'm

1:03:29 – 1:03:30

trying to find the best way to

1:03:30 – 1:03:31

manage things

1:03:31 – 1:03:33

for the grower, for myself,

1:03:34 – 1:03:36

because in the long run,

1:03:37 – 1:03:39

I made a joke that if I do my

1:03:39 – 1:03:41

job or if I do everything right

1:03:41 – 1:03:42

that I'm trying to do, I'll be

1:03:42 – 1:03:44

out of a job in 10 years.

1:03:44 – 1:03:45

But that's not the case.

1:03:45 – 1:03:46

I don't want to be out of a job.

1:03:46 – 1:03:48

I want to make

1:03:48 – 1:03:49

my job.

1:03:50 – 1:03:52

Well, yes, essentially, I want

1:03:52 – 1:03:54

and I told him I want me to be

1:03:54 – 1:03:57

the most valuable aspect for a

1:03:57 – 1:03:59

grower, my knowledge base, my

1:03:59 – 1:04:02

experience, to be

1:04:03 – 1:04:05

what I know to be the value as

1:04:05 – 1:04:07

opposed to the fact that I can

1:04:07 – 1:04:09

sell you a $1 ,200 a gallon

1:04:09 – 1:04:10

fungicide

1:04:10 – 1:04:11

that

1:04:12 – 1:04:13

is a, you know, miracle cure.

1:04:13 – 1:04:14

And that's all, that's all I

1:04:14 – 1:04:16

have to know is, you know, in

1:04:16 – 1:04:18

March, I put this fungicide on

1:04:18 – 1:04:20

and everything's golden.

1:04:21 – 1:04:22

But I would rather it be,

1:04:24 – 1:04:25

if we need to, I know how to use

1:04:25 – 1:04:27

that. But if I don't

1:04:27 – 1:04:29

need to use it, I know other

1:04:29 – 1:04:31

aspects, other avenues that we

1:04:31 – 1:04:32

can take that maybe,

1:04:33 – 1:04:35

maybe my bonus isn't as big, but

1:04:35 – 1:04:36

my conscience is better.

1:04:37 – 1:04:38

And that's kind of where I've

1:04:38 – 1:04:39

gone with most of the things

1:04:39 – 1:04:42

that I've done in, in everything

1:04:42 – 1:04:42

1:04:43 – 1:04:44

I have to make a living,

1:04:44 – 1:04:46

uh, even in farming, like my,

1:04:47 – 1:04:49

uh, uh, my market garden that I

1:04:49 – 1:04:50

want to do, it has to make money

1:04:50 – 1:04:51

to be

1:04:52 – 1:04:54

reasonable. I'm not going to go

1:04:54 – 1:04:54

lose money on it,

1:04:55 – 1:04:58

but it was more of a calling

1:04:58 – 1:05:01

to do something good for the

1:05:01 – 1:05:03

community and people around me

1:05:03 – 1:05:04

to give them something healthy

1:05:04 – 1:05:06

and, um,

1:05:06 – 1:05:07

beneficial to them

1:05:09 – 1:05:11

than it was to find another

1:05:11 – 1:05:12

revenue stream.

1:05:12 – 1:05:13

Obviously I

1:05:13 – 1:05:15

would love for it to be.

1:05:15 – 1:05:17

off and have 140 acres of market

1:05:17 – 1:05:18

garden that I'm selling at

1:05:18 – 1:05:21

grocery store prices and retire

1:05:21 – 1:05:22

by 50, but

1:05:23 – 1:05:24

that's not the goal.

1:05:25 – 1:05:26

The goal is to do something that

1:05:26 – 1:05:27

makes

1:05:27 – 1:05:30

my conscience, my soul, my

1:05:30 – 1:05:31

whatever you want to call it,

1:05:32 – 1:05:33

content.

1:05:33 – 1:05:35

And that's the way I try to

1:05:35 – 1:05:38

approach all of my dealings with

1:05:38 – 1:05:39

the fertilizer industry.

1:05:39 – 1:05:41

If you need me to prescribe,

1:05:42 – 1:05:44

a pesticide or herbicide,

1:05:44 – 1:05:45

that's no problem.

1:05:45 – 1:05:47

I'm not one of those people that

1:05:47 – 1:05:50

gets the icks trying to

1:05:50 – 1:05:52

use a pesticide or even,

1:05:52 – 1:05:53

God forbid,

1:05:53 – 1:05:55

going in there and disking up a

1:05:55 – 1:05:56

field if you have to.

1:05:56 – 1:05:58

I've learned that there are uses

1:05:58 – 1:05:59

for everything.

1:05:59 – 1:06:01

There are also alternatives to

1:06:01 – 1:06:02

everything.

1:06:03 – 1:06:04

And I try and do the best thing

1:06:04 – 1:06:06

for my customers,

1:06:06 – 1:06:07

my field.

1:06:07 – 1:06:08

And one

1:06:09 – 1:06:11

of the main things that drove

1:06:11 – 1:06:13

this is I have three kids.

1:06:14 – 1:06:16

My oldest daughter is six years

1:06:16 – 1:06:18

old. She's decided she wants to

1:06:18 – 1:06:20

be a flower grower and seller.

1:06:21 – 1:06:23

So I'm learning how to grow

1:06:23 – 1:06:24

flowers.

1:06:24 – 1:06:27

My middle son is four

1:06:28 – 1:06:30

and loves everything about the

1:06:30 – 1:06:31

farm.

1:06:30 – 1:06:31

So I

1:06:32 – 1:06:34

want to give him something that

1:06:36 – 1:06:37

he can

1:06:37 – 1:06:40

look at and be proud of, not,

1:06:40 – 1:06:41

you know, say, oh, well, you

1:06:41 – 1:06:43

know, the farm costs me a

1:06:43 – 1:06:44

million and a half dollars a

1:06:44 – 1:06:45

year and I make,

1:06:45 – 1:06:46

you know,

1:06:46 – 1:06:47

million six profits.

1:06:48 – 1:06:49

I got $100 ,000 to live off of.

1:06:49 – 1:06:50

That's pretty nice.

1:06:51 – 1:06:52

I want him to know,

1:06:53 – 1:06:54

yeah,

1:06:54 – 1:06:55

dad worked on this.

1:06:55 – 1:06:56

He built up this soil.

1:06:56 – 1:06:58

There's a reason that

1:06:58 – 1:06:59

we don't have all the issues

1:06:59 – 1:07:01

that the people around us do

1:07:01 – 1:07:01

have some pride.

1:07:01 – 1:07:02

Maybe we lose some acres.

1:07:03 – 1:07:05

Maybe we cut back and we focus

1:07:05 – 1:07:07