After growing up on a farm, Mollie Engelhart built a vegan restaurant empire in Los Angeles, which she planned to sell before COVID disrupted her plans. During the pandemic, she lost her income and spent time back on the farm, using nature’s lens to question societal constructs like veganism. These experiences inspired her book, Debunked by Nature, where she shares her shift to truth-seeking based on natural cycles. She now lives on a Texas ranch, advocating for authentic living through storytelling.
Mollie experiments with regenerative techniques on her Texas ranch, like mulching to combat oak wilt and bale grazing to boost soil health in caliche soils. She advocates for local food systems, resilient communities, and soil stewardship through her book and Epoch Times writings. She aims to inspire sustainable farming through her innovative practices, like propagating adapted trees and hedging crop plantings.
In this episode, John and Mollie discuss:
Shifting away from veganism and recognizing life-death cycles in food production.
Building resilient communities through local food systems and family governance.
Using deep mulching with juniper chips to reverse oak wilt in Texas’ calcareous soils.
Enhancing soil fertility through bale grazing, leveraging carbon to boost pasture growth.
Adapting crop plantings, like late-season corn and sesame, to hedge against erratic weather and pests.
Propagating locally adapted tree varieties to support regional farming success.
Observing local ecosystems to inform management, avoiding blanket solutions for diverse soils.
Additional Resources
Click here to order Mollie’s book.
To read Mollie’s opinion section of the Epoch Times, click here.
About John Kempf
John Kempf is the founder of Advancing Eco Agriculture (AEA). A top expert in biological and regenerative farming, John founded AEA in 2006 to help fellow farmers by providing the education, tools, and strategies that will have a global effect on the food supply and those who grow it.
Through intense study and the knowledge gleaned from many industry leaders, John is building a comprehensive systems-based approach to plant nutrition – a system solidly based on the sciences of plant physiology, mineral nutrition, and soil microbiology.
Support For This Show & Helping You Grow
Since 2006, AEA has been on a mission to help growers become more resilient, efficient, and profitable with regenerative agriculture.
AEA works directly with growers to apply its unique line of liquid mineral crop nutrition products and biological inoculants. Informed by cutting-edge plant and soil data-gathering techniques, AEA’s science-based programs empower farm operations to meet the crop quality markers that matter the most.
AEA has created real and lasting change on millions of acres with its products and data-driven services by working hand-in-hand with growers to produce healthier soil, stronger crops, and higher profits.
Beyond working on the ground with growers, AEA leads in regenerative agriculture media and education, producing and distributing the popular and highly-regarded Regenerative Agriculture Podcast, inspiring webinars, and other educational content that serve as go-to resources for growers worldwide.
Learn more about AEA’s regenerative programs and products: https://www.advancingecoag.com
Podcast Transcript
0:00 – 0:01
Hi, friends. Welcome back to the
0:01 – 0:02
Regenerative Agriculture
0:02 – 0:04
Podcast. This is Jon, and we're
0:04 – 0:05
back with Molly Engelhardt.
0:05 – 0:07
But I wanted to have you back
0:07 – 0:09
because I think your current
0:09 – 0:11
work and the book that you're in
0:11 – 0:13
the process of releasing is so
0:13 – 0:15
relevant for our times where we
0:15 – 0:15
have this
0:16 – 0:18
increasing polarity
0:19 – 0:20
and this division
0:21 – 0:23
between farmers and their
0:23 – 0:25
consumers. And there is this
0:25 – 0:26
moment
0:27 – 0:28
following what happened with
0:28 – 0:30
COVID and with growing awareness
0:30 – 0:32
of food supply chain issues and
0:32 – 0:33
collective public health issues
0:33 – 0:34
over the course of the last
0:34 – 0:35
three or four years, that
0:35 – 0:38
people—there's an openness to
0:38 – 0:40
asking questions that hasn't
0:40 – 0:42
existed for quite some time, it
0:42 – 0:43
feels like.
0:44 – 0:45
And
0:45 – 0:48
your message and what you've
0:48 – 0:49
been working on here over the
0:49 – 0:49
last year or two
0:50 – 0:52
addresses this so directly.
0:52 – 0:54
So I don't want to
0:54 – 0:57
to put to use my words to
0:57 – 0:57
describe what you're doing.
0:57 – 0:59
Tell us a bit about your book
0:59 – 1:00
and your message and what it is
1:00 – 1:01
you're working on.
1:02 – 1:02
Well,
1:03 – 1:06
my book really came out of
1:06 – 1:08
my relationship with nature.
1:09 – 1:11
And I was living I grew up on a
1:11 – 1:13
farm, so I have like a farming
1:13 – 1:15
childhood background.
1:15 – 1:16
And then I moved to Los Angeles
1:16 – 1:18
and lived a very
1:18 – 1:21
modern L .A. life for many, many
1:21 – 1:22
years. I was,
1:22 – 1:24
I would say, a feminist and a
1:24 – 1:27
workaholic. And I was All of the
1:27 – 1:29
strive to do, I can do what men
1:29 – 1:31
can do, all of that was very
1:31 – 1:32
loud in me.
1:34 – 1:35
I built up this empire.
1:36 – 1:37
And at the beginning of COVID,
1:37 – 1:39
before COVID started, I was
1:39 – 1:41
selling it for between $25 and
1:41 – 1:42
$31 million.
1:42 – 1:45
And so I thought I had
1:45 – 1:46
succeeded. I had built this
1:46 – 1:47
thing. I grew it bigger.
1:48 – 1:50
I'm selling it to a venture
1:50 – 1:52
capital firm. And I could just
1:52 – 1:54
be a full -time mom and shift
1:54 – 1:55
what I was doing.
1:55 – 1:57
And somewhere along the way, I'd
1:57 – 1:58
learned about regenerative
1:58 – 2:00
agriculture and really had
2:00 – 2:02
shifted what was important to me
2:02 – 2:04
away from veganism and what I
2:04 – 2:06
was doing to regenerative
2:06 – 2:07
agriculture. But I'm no dummy,
2:07 – 2:08
like if I'm going to sell my
2:08 – 2:10
business and get out and then do
2:10 – 2:11
that.
2:11 – 2:13
But COVID not only robbed me of
2:13 – 2:15
that deal and that opportunity,
2:15 – 2:17
but it robbed me of
2:17 – 2:20
my income and my business that I
2:20 – 2:22
was running for those 15 years.
2:23 – 2:26
And in that time, I spent a lot
2:26 – 2:28
of time on the farm, a lot of
2:28 – 2:29
time observing.
2:29 – 2:32
And I started to realize in a
2:32 – 2:33
world where everybody was
2:33 – 2:34
talking about truth and
2:34 – 2:35
misinformation and what's true
2:35 – 2:37
and my truth and there's
2:37 – 2:39
subjective truth and all this,
2:40 – 2:42
I started to ask, what is truth?
2:42 – 2:44
And I realized that nature was
2:44 – 2:45
an expression of
2:46 – 2:47
God's perfection.
2:48 – 2:50
And so in being a seeker of
2:50 – 2:51
truth,
2:52 – 2:54
Could I take these constructs
2:54 – 2:56
that are being thrown through
2:56 – 2:58
the air all the time for
2:58 – 2:59
division,
2:59 – 3:00
for dividing us?
3:01 – 3:02
And could I take it to the
3:02 – 3:03
savanna,
3:03 – 3:06
the woods, or the farm and
3:06 – 3:07
ask,
3:07 – 3:09
does this exist in nature?
3:09 – 3:10
And it really started with
3:10 – 3:11
veganism. Like there is no
3:11 – 3:13
veganism. It doesn't exist.
3:13 – 3:15
My whole life was based on that.
3:15 – 3:18
And then you get to the farm and
3:18 – 3:18
you see that,
3:19 – 3:21
well, blood meal, bone meal,
3:21 – 3:24
feather meal, chicken food, all
3:24 – 3:25
coming out of the consolidated
3:25 – 3:26
feedlot system.
3:26 – 3:29
Organic fertilizer in the
3:29 – 3:32
degenerative organic system is
3:32 – 3:34
literally just byproducts of the
3:34 – 3:35
death industry.
3:35 – 3:36
And I say that in quotation
3:36 – 3:38
marks that
3:38 – 3:41
vegans hate. And so all of our
3:41 – 3:41
vegetables
3:42 – 3:44
energetically are
3:44 – 3:46
feeding on that death.
3:46 – 3:49
And so there is no plate of food
3:49 – 3:50
without death. I cannot have an
3:50 – 3:52
animal on my plate, but my
3:52 – 3:53
avocado toast, there was ground
3:53 – 3:54
squirrels killed.
3:55 – 3:57
have that avocado toast when
3:57 – 3:58
those avocado trees were young.
3:59 – 4:00
In the toast itself there was
4:00 – 4:02
rabbits and squirrels and foxes
4:02 – 4:04
and whatever snakes and frogs
4:04 – 4:06
that were got up into the
4:06 – 4:08
combine and there was
4:08 – 4:11
cats and rat traps to protect
4:11 – 4:13
the grain. I mean there is no
4:13 – 4:14
food without death.
4:14 – 4:15
Every
4:16 – 4:17
What's a part of there is no
4:17 – 4:18
life without death.
4:18 – 4:19
It's a part of the cycle.
4:20 – 4:21
It's two sides of the same coin.
4:21 – 4:22
It's not actually a failure.
4:23 – 4:25
It's a function of life.
4:25 – 4:26
And so my
4:27 – 4:28
book is called Debunked by
4:28 – 4:30
Nature. And essentially, I take
4:30 – 4:33
these ideas that I was taught in
4:33 – 4:36
college in Los Angeles, in
4:36 – 4:36
Ithaca, New York.
4:36 – 4:39
I grew up in the most liberal
4:40 – 4:43
ideas. And I just say,
4:43 – 4:44
Do they make sense?
4:44 – 4:45
And not all my ideas are
4:45 – 4:47
political that I question.
4:47 – 4:49
I talk about co -sleeping.
4:49 – 4:50
I talk about breastfeeding.
4:51 – 4:53
I talk about, you know, why
4:53 – 4:54
would we think we could,
4:54 – 4:56
Nestle's company could make
4:56 – 4:58
something more nutritious than
4:59 – 4:59
the
5:00 – 5:01
mother's milk? It doesn't make
5:01 – 5:04
any sense. And would a lion
5:04 – 5:05
sleep
5:05 – 5:08
far away from her child where
5:08 – 5:08
she can't see it.
5:09 – 5:11
Only time that happens in nature
5:11 – 5:13
with mammals is when the deer,
5:14 – 5:16
when bovine are first born and
5:16 – 5:18
they don't have the scent of the
5:18 – 5:19
animal yet. The mother will
5:19 – 5:21
sleep close by where she can see
5:21 – 5:23
it, but that the predator would
5:23 – 5:24
come for her rather than the
5:24 – 5:26
baby until the baby can run.
5:26 – 5:28
That is the only time we see a
5:28 – 5:30
mammal sleeping away from their
5:30 – 5:31
mother.
5:31 – 5:32
young.
5:32 – 5:34
And so we have created a culture
5:34 – 5:35
where we put the baby in a
5:35 – 5:36
separate room and watch it with
5:36 – 5:38
a digital monitor or whatever.
5:38 – 5:40
So not all my ideas are
5:40 – 5:41
political.
5:42 – 5:43
They're just kind of about
5:43 – 5:44
societal norms.
5:45 – 5:46
And are these things normal or
5:46 – 5:47
have we lost our way?
5:48 – 5:49
Has God shown us the perfect
5:49 – 5:51
design and we are ignoring it?
5:52 – 5:54
A bit ago, you mentioned some of
5:54 – 5:56
the truths that you observed
5:56 – 5:59
emerging from nature when you
5:59 – 6:00
started paying attention.
6:00 – 6:02
I've always been intrigued by
6:02 – 6:03
the
6:04 – 6:07
analogs between
6:08 – 6:11
the way plants develop and
6:11 – 6:12
livestock develop and our own
6:12 – 6:14
spiritual growth as well.
6:14 – 6:15
So this one example,
6:16 – 6:17
that I've mentioned before is
6:17 – 6:19
the process of the very simple
6:19 – 6:20
process of photosynthesis.
6:20 – 6:22
And it's 24 hour circadian
6:22 – 6:23
rhythm.
6:24 – 6:25
You have plants that are
6:25 – 6:27
collecting energy from the light
6:27 – 6:29
during the day while the sun is
6:29 – 6:29
shining
6:30 – 6:32
and storing and conserving that
6:32 – 6:34
energy to grow at night.
6:34 – 6:36
80 % of cell division happens
6:36 – 6:37
between 3 a .m.
6:37 – 6:38
and
6:37 – 6:38
8 a .m. or
6:38 – 6:40
you could say during the darkest
6:40 – 6:41
time of the night and at dawn.
6:42 – 6:43
And when you think about that
6:43 – 6:44
from a spiritual perspective,
6:45 – 6:46
There's a powerful analog here
6:46 – 6:48
that we are to collect energy
6:48 – 6:49
from the light during the bright
6:49 – 6:51
times of our lives so
6:51 – 6:53
that we have conserved energy
6:53 – 6:54
and stored energy to
6:55 – 6:57
develop and grow during the
6:57 – 6:58
trials and tribulations that
6:58 – 6:59
come.
7:00 – 7:00
And
7:00 – 7:01
so
7:01 – 7:02
my
7:02 – 7:04
question, you mentioned you've
7:04 – 7:05
touched on a few, but what are
7:05 – 7:07
some of the truths that you
7:07 – 7:09
observed in nature that or
7:10 – 7:12
some of your memorable moments
7:12 – 7:13
that you look back now and you
7:13 – 7:15
say, aha, that was a
7:15 – 7:15
breakthrough?
7:17 – 7:18
Yeah.
7:18 – 7:20
I've told this story before, but
7:20 – 7:22
I was
7:23 – 7:26
breastfeeding my second child,
7:26 – 7:28
and my first child was a
7:28 – 7:28
toddler.
7:28 – 7:30
And I was vegan, and my mindset
7:30 – 7:31
was vegan,
7:32 – 7:35
and I was feeding my toddler oat
7:35 – 7:35
milk.
7:35 – 7:37
My father had given me a cow.
7:37 – 7:38
Her name is Una.
7:38 – 7:39
I still have Una.
7:40 – 7:41
And
7:41 – 7:43
she was bred when I got her, and
7:44 – 7:46
she had a bull calf.
7:47 – 7:49
And her udder is very, very big.
7:49 – 7:51
She's a European big.
7:51 – 7:53
And her back two teats were too
7:53 – 7:56
low to the ground for the calf
7:56 – 7:57
to nurse on. So he just focused
7:57 – 7:58
on the front two, and we were
7:58 – 8:00
milking off the back two.
8:01 – 8:02
And we had got her for compost.
8:02 – 8:04
I was still in my vegan mind.
8:04 – 8:05
I was going to have a cow.
8:05 – 8:05
I was going to set off my
8:05 – 8:07
compost with her poop.
8:07 – 8:08
And
8:08 – 8:10
But my uncle was drinking the
8:10 – 8:11
milk from those back two teats.
8:11 – 8:13
And so I go to get the oat milk
8:13 – 8:14
out of the refrigerator.
8:14 – 8:17
I'm holding my infant nursing on
8:17 – 8:19
my mind. I'm nursing the infant.
8:19 – 8:20
That's perfect food.
8:20 – 8:21
It's divine. It's it's all the
8:21 – 8:23
nutrients, everything that it
8:23 – 8:24
needs for this area has the
8:24 – 8:25
microbiology has the
8:26 – 8:29
the immune stuff for this exact
8:29 – 8:30
area.
8:30 – 8:31
And I look at the oat milk and
8:31 – 8:33
the Tetra Pak from Costco, and I
8:33 – 8:34
look at this glass half gallon
8:34 – 8:37
ball jar of Una's milk in my
8:37 – 8:38
refrigerator.
8:38 – 8:39
And I think,
8:40 – 8:42
why would I think
8:42 – 8:45
that that is death?
8:45 – 8:46
That is pus, that is gross, that
8:46 – 8:47
is bad for you.
8:47 – 8:50
And this oat milk, sterile Tetra
8:50 – 8:52
Pak from Costco is
8:54 – 8:56
somehow good for my kid.
8:56 – 8:57
Like it just,
8:57 – 8:58
broke my head at that moment
8:58 – 9:01
because obviously the breast is
9:01 – 9:03
best. And then Una is living in
9:03 – 9:05
the same environment as I am,
9:05 – 9:05
but dirtier.
9:06 – 9:08
And so her milk has to be
9:08 – 9:10
healthful and nourishing for my
9:10 – 9:10
toddler,
9:10 – 9:11
cannot be harmful.
9:12 – 9:14
And I just like secretly, I
9:14 – 9:15
didn't even want the vegans to
9:15 – 9:17
know that I was secretly feeding
9:17 – 9:19
my toddler raw milk from my cow
9:19 – 9:21
because I was afraid.
9:23 – 9:26
So what happened in the shift
9:26 – 9:30
from that moment you had this
9:30 – 9:31
realization, in that moment you
9:31 – 9:32
were afraid,
9:32 – 9:35
and now you stand on the eve of
9:35 – 9:36
releasing this book,
9:37 – 9:38
which
9:38 – 9:40
hopefully
9:40 – 9:42
controversial in the very best
9:42 – 9:43
sort of way.
9:43 – 9:44
Controversial in the sense that
9:44 – 9:45
it inspires lots of
9:45 – 9:46
conversations and inspires
9:46 – 9:48
people to reevaluate what
9:48 – 9:49
happened from that moment of
9:49 – 9:52
being afraid to speak out to
9:52 – 9:52
now.
9:53 – 9:54
I'm still afraid.
9:54 – 9:55
Being a torchbearer.
9:55 – 9:57
I mean, I think I'm still
9:57 – 9:57
afraid. I think
9:59 – 10:01
I don't think anybody's not
10:01 – 10:03
afraid. I think it's either you
10:03 – 10:04
can be afraid and you can still
10:04 – 10:07
take action or you're afraid and
10:07 – 10:08
you're in inaction.
10:08 – 10:11
And so just the other night, me
10:11 – 10:12
and my husband went somewhere
10:12 – 10:13
and then we stopped on the way
10:13 – 10:14
home and I went to the restroom
10:14 – 10:15
and
10:15 – 10:17
someone stopped me in the
10:17 – 10:20
restroom and said, I know who
10:20 – 10:21
you are, ma, ma, ma, ma, ma.
10:21 – 10:23
And I said, oh, thank you.
10:24 – 10:26
And I all of a sudden had this
10:26 – 10:28
like fear come over me because I
10:28 – 10:29
wrote this book
10:30 – 10:32
in in the three hours of the
10:32 – 10:33
morning from four a .m.
10:33 – 10:34
to six a .m.
10:35 – 10:36
at that time that we're supposed
10:36 – 10:37
to be growing. Right.
10:37 – 10:38
I
10:37 – 10:38
got
10:38 – 10:39
up at four a .m.
10:39 – 10:39
for six weeks
10:39 – 10:41
every morning when my kids were
10:41 – 10:42
sleeping. No kid on
10:42 – 10:44
the boob. No, nothing.
10:44 – 10:45
I could just focus and did it
10:45 – 10:46
from six, eight, four a .m.
10:46 – 10:47
to six a .m.
10:47 – 10:48
So I was very intimate.
10:48 – 10:50
It was me in the living room of
10:50 – 10:52
my home in very dark kind of
10:53 – 10:54
cave like experience.
10:54 – 10:56
And I just told the truth.
10:56 – 10:58
The truth came out of my heart
10:58 – 10:59
and I
10:59 – 11:00
felt like it was just coming out
11:00 – 11:01
of me, coming out of me, coming
11:01 – 11:02
out of me.
11:02 – 11:04
And then I sent it
11:04 – 11:06
to Taylor and he gave it to Paul
11:06 – 11:07
and Paul and me went back and
11:07 – 11:08
forth. And that's the editor
11:08 – 11:09
from acres.
11:09 – 11:11
And then it's just me and Paul.
11:11 – 11:12
And so that's pretty intimate
11:12 – 11:14
too. And then
11:14 – 11:15
all of a sudden you're like, Oh,
11:15 – 11:16
we need some blurbs.
11:16 – 11:17
So it's like, we're going to
11:17 – 11:18
give it to a few people to get a
11:18 – 11:20
blurb. And then all of a sudden
11:20 – 11:22
I had this realization in the
11:22 – 11:23
restroom as this woman was like,
11:23 – 11:24
Oh my God, Molly, I follow you
11:24 – 11:25
on Instagram.
11:25 – 11:26
And I just had this thought
11:26 – 11:27
like, Oh my God,
11:28 – 11:30
I just felt so naked, like my
11:30 – 11:32
whole soul is on display, but
11:33 – 11:35
I believe that I was led there.
11:35 – 11:38
this because the way I tell this
11:38 – 11:39
story is not didactic.
11:40 – 11:41
It is not telling people what
11:41 – 11:43
they must believe, but in the
11:43 – 11:45
most honest way and sometimes
11:45 – 11:46
looking bad,
11:47 – 11:49
how did I believe this thing?
11:49 – 11:50
And now how do I believe this
11:50 – 11:52
thing and connecting those dots?
11:52 – 11:54
And I'm hoping that
11:55 – 11:57
it is controversial in that
11:57 – 11:59
people find out about it and I
11:59 – 12:01
can connect those dots for other
12:01 – 12:01
people.
12:01 – 12:03
Because the
12:04 – 12:07
idea that I jumped out of bed
12:07 – 12:09
five days after having a baby
12:09 – 12:11
and strapped my baby to me and
12:11 – 12:14
went to work to prove that I was
12:14 – 12:15
just as strong as a man,
12:16 – 12:17
that's broken.
12:17 – 12:18
That idea,
12:18 – 12:21
and that harms my body, it harms
12:21 – 12:22
my children.
12:23 – 12:23
And
12:23 – 12:25
what kind of idea is that?
12:25 – 12:26
Like, I need to be as strong as
12:26 – 12:27
a man?
12:28 – 12:29
who cannot push a baby out of
12:29 – 12:31
them, grow a baby in them and
12:31 – 12:32
bring it forth into this world,
12:32 – 12:35
five days later, and I'm just
12:35 – 12:37
like there at work, pale as can
12:37 – 12:38
be, bleeding,
12:38 – 12:40
proving how strong I am, that
12:40 – 12:43
mindset that I can do anything
12:43 – 12:45
he can do, instead of that we
12:45 – 12:47
are a bond and we are two
12:48 – 12:50
halves of one whole,
12:51 – 12:53
each perfect in our shortcomings
12:53 – 12:56
and our strengths to complement
12:56 – 12:57
each other,
12:57 – 13:00
I was indoctrinated and I spent
13:00 – 13:02
much of my life trying to live
13:02 – 13:04
up to these ideas that I was
13:04 – 13:07
told. And if I can give a woman
13:07 – 13:09
a permission at a much younger
13:09 – 13:11
age to start having children,
13:11 – 13:13
at a much younger age to decide
13:13 – 13:14
to let her husband be the
13:14 – 13:15
breadwinner,
13:16 – 13:18
I will love to cause
13:19 – 13:20
just that little transformation.
13:21 – 13:21
If I can,
13:21 – 13:22
I had
13:24 – 13:24
Abortions when I was younger,
13:25 – 13:26
like, I'm going to have to live
13:26 – 13:28
with that sin that I did that.
13:28 – 13:30
But if I can lead someone.
13:30 – 13:32
through my experience to where I
13:32 – 13:35
am at 47 and where I was at 22
13:35 – 13:38
and let them see my mistakes,
13:38 – 13:39
maybe they don't have to live
13:39 – 13:41
the mistakes I did.
13:41 – 13:43
And maybe God can use my
13:43 – 13:45
shortcomings and
13:46 – 13:47
my missteps to
13:48 – 13:50
help other women feel strength
13:50 – 13:54
in being the feminine that they
13:54 – 13:55
are.
13:55 – 13:57
And that's just one part of the
13:57 – 13:58
book. But in the feminine and
13:58 – 13:59
masculine,
13:59 – 14:00
if I if just that could help
14:00 – 14:02
people, I feel like
14:03 – 14:04
that would be great because I
14:04 – 14:06
feel like way the way I pushed
14:06 – 14:08
my body for my first two
14:08 – 14:11
children, what was not right,
14:11 – 14:12
and especially at the age that I
14:12 – 14:13
was.
14:15 – 14:16
Well, sometimes we approach
14:16 – 14:17
projects because
14:18 – 14:19
we're passionate about them.
14:20 – 14:22
Sometimes we approach projects
14:22 – 14:23
because they're a dream that
14:23 – 14:24
we've had for a long time.
14:25 – 14:26
And sometimes we're led into
14:26 – 14:28
projects kind of inadvertently,
14:28 – 14:29
and we only realize what we're
14:29 – 14:31
doing kind of after the fact.
14:32 – 14:34
And so
14:35 – 14:38
as you now stand on this stage,
14:38 – 14:39
obviously, you've you've
14:39 – 14:41
completed writing the book.
14:41 – 14:42
You have a manuscript.
14:42 – 14:43
You're about to send it out into
14:43 – 14:44
the world.
14:45 – 14:46
You just
14:46 – 14:48
you preempted part of my
14:48 – 14:49
question. So now I'm going to
14:49 – 14:50
expand that. I was going to ask
14:50 – 14:52
the question, what are what are
14:52 – 14:53
the changes that you hope can be
14:53 – 14:55
inspired in people's lives by
14:55 – 14:56
raising the book in the world?
14:56 – 14:58
But now I'd like to broaden
14:58 – 14:59
that.
15:01 – 15:02
more expansively than just what
15:02 – 15:03
you described for young women?
15:03 – 15:04
What are all the possible
15:04 – 15:05
transformations?
15:05 – 15:06
What are all the possible things
15:06 – 15:07
that you hope might come true by
15:07 – 15:08
putting this book into the
15:08 – 15:09
world?
15:10 – 15:12
Well, I feel that we're in a
15:12 – 15:14
place and in a time where
15:14 – 15:16
everything is about division.
15:16 – 15:17
And
15:17 – 15:18
I think,
15:18 – 15:20
and we're all consuming so much
15:20 – 15:22
information and there's so much.
15:23 – 15:24
But if you look at all the
15:24 – 15:25
information that we have, we're
15:25 – 15:26
consuming, whether it's social
15:26 – 15:27
media, whether it's
15:27 – 15:28
environmental justice, whether
15:28 – 15:30
it's regenerative agriculture,
15:30 – 15:31
chemical agriculture,
15:33 – 15:35
a lot of the underlying message
15:35 – 15:37
is like us and them,
15:37 – 15:38
good and bad,
15:39 – 15:40
separation, separation,
15:40 – 15:41
separation.
15:41 – 15:42
And
15:43 – 15:44
while we're fighting about all
15:44 – 15:45
these things,
15:46 – 15:47
the ability for us to reproduce
15:47 – 15:49
is being poisoned out of us.
15:51 – 15:53
Our ability to even have local
15:53 – 15:55
secure food systems is
15:55 – 15:57
collapsing. We're in an agrarian
15:57 – 15:58
collapse that has never been
15:58 – 15:59
seen before.
16:01 – 16:03
170 ,000 farms, you were there
16:03 – 16:04
when I got corrected.
16:04 – 16:07
I said 140 ,000 and Merrill West
16:07 – 16:09
from the Free Farm Alliance
16:09 – 16:12
said, I think it's 170 ,000 in
16:12 – 16:14
eight years. So if that's true,
16:15 – 16:17
That's one in 15 farms we lost
16:17 – 16:19
in the last eight years.
16:20 – 16:21
I just spoke to a representative
16:21 – 16:22
in Texas.
16:22 – 16:24
He said that Texas lost 4 ,000
16:24 – 16:27
family farms in the last year.
16:27 – 16:29
So we are in a collapse.
16:29 – 16:32
And my hope is that
16:33 – 16:35
on a greater scale, people can
16:35 – 16:37
be drawn back to the land.
16:37 – 16:39
And if not, that may not mean
16:39 – 16:41
they're going to pick up a
16:41 – 16:42
garden hoe or they're going to
16:42 – 16:43
pick up a shovel or get on a
16:43 – 16:44
tractor.
16:44 – 16:46
that maybe it means they're
16:46 – 16:47
willing to drive 45 minutes to
16:47 – 16:49
pick up raw milk from their
16:49 – 16:51
local Amish farmer, or they're
16:51 – 16:53
willing to drive out and get a
16:53 – 16:55
CSA box, or join a CSA, or get a
16:55 – 16:58
meat box, or any of those
16:58 – 16:59
things. Because
16:59 – 17:01
so many farmers are white
17:01 – 17:02
knuckling it,
17:02 – 17:04
working a second job
17:05 – 17:07
just to lose money to grow our
17:07 – 17:09
food. And this is not right.
17:09 – 17:10
And although that's not what my
17:10 – 17:11
book is about,
17:12 – 17:14
being reconnected to how
17:14 – 17:16
important healthy soil is and
17:17 – 17:19
being in the circadian rhythm of
17:19 – 17:21
life and eating local food and
17:21 – 17:23
the coherency of local food and
17:23 – 17:24
all of that.
17:25 – 17:26
I hope that it inspires people
17:26 – 17:28
to remember that there is more
17:29 – 17:32
people than there is masters.
17:32 – 17:34
And so we get to vote every time
17:34 – 17:36
we spend our money and.
17:37 – 17:38
there is these resilient
17:38 – 17:40
communities in parts of this
17:40 – 17:41
country and in parts of other
17:41 – 17:42
countries,
17:42 – 17:44
and there's largely non
17:44 – 17:45
-resilient communities.
17:45 – 17:47
And I want us to move back to
17:47 – 17:49
more resiliency.
17:49 – 17:50
And I was just talking about
17:50 – 17:51
this with my husband yesterday,
17:51 – 17:52
because he's
17:53 – 17:55
Mexican and he's indigenous from
17:55 – 17:55
Mexico.
17:55 – 17:57
And someone called me last night
17:57 – 17:59
and said somebody that I went to
17:59 – 18:00
high school had died of a drug
18:00 – 18:01
overdose. And
18:03 – 18:04
I told
18:05 – 18:06
my husband and I
18:08 – 18:09
He said, that seems like you get
18:09 – 18:11
that phone call all the time.
18:11 – 18:13
And I said, it's been a lot.
18:13 – 18:14
And I tried to count and I
18:14 – 18:15
actually couldn't remember all
18:15 – 18:18
the people from my hometown that
18:18 – 18:19
have died of a drug overdose.
18:20 – 18:21
And then if you add the people I
18:21 – 18:22
know in Los Angeles from the
18:22 – 18:24
time I lived there, and he's
18:24 – 18:25
from this small indigenous
18:25 – 18:26
village in Mexico.
18:27 – 18:28
And he said, you know, I don't
18:28 – 18:29
know anybody that died
18:30 – 18:30
of
18:31 – 18:32
a drug overdose.
18:32 – 18:33
And I said, you don't?
18:33 – 18:35
And we got to talking and he
18:35 – 18:36
said he knows one guy that
18:36 – 18:38
passed out drunk and died of
18:38 – 18:39
smoke inhalation,
18:40 – 18:42
but he doesn't have any body.
18:43 – 18:44
And he said that it's just
18:44 – 18:45
starting to creep into the
18:45 – 18:46
villages.
18:46 – 18:48
But in Oaxaca, there's largely
18:48 – 18:50
no government in the
18:50 – 18:51
municipalities.
18:51 – 18:54
It's all elders and
18:54 – 18:57
patrols, men controlling the,
18:57 – 18:59
you know, and it's all kind of
18:59 – 19:00
social
19:02 – 19:04
governance and not big
19:04 – 19:05
government. And I thought it's
19:05 – 19:06
very interesting.
19:07 – 19:07
So I looked it up.
19:07 – 19:09
We have a five thousand eight
19:09 – 19:12
hundred times the death rate
19:12 – 19:13
from drugs in the United States
19:13 – 19:14
that they do in Mexico.
19:15 – 19:18
It's 31 people per 100 ,000
19:18 – 19:19
here,
19:19 – 19:19
and it's 0
19:20 – 19:22
.53 in Mexico,
19:23 – 19:25
and 0 .71 in the urban areas of
19:25 – 19:27
Mexico. So it's a little higher
19:27 – 19:28
in the urban areas, but still
19:28 – 19:29
very, very low.
19:30 – 19:32
And so my point is that when the
19:32 – 19:33
family
19:33 – 19:35
So in these rural communities in
19:35 – 19:36
Mexico,
19:36 – 19:37
still largely governed by the
19:37 – 19:38
community,
19:38 – 19:39
and it's still largely governed
19:39 – 19:41
by the family unit, the mother,
19:42 – 19:43
father, child as the foundation
19:43 – 19:44
and the greater community
19:44 – 19:46
outside of that, that that
19:46 – 19:48
way of governance is the
19:48 – 19:50
greatest way of governance that
19:50 – 19:52
humanity has ever had.
19:52 – 19:54
And it is not a relic of the
19:54 – 19:56
past, but it is a reflection of
19:56 – 19:57
what we need to get back to.
19:58 – 19:59
And so
19:59 – 20:00
Ultimately, I hope that we can
20:00 – 20:02
get to more communal living,
20:03 – 20:04
tribal,
20:04 – 20:06
not tribal exactly, but living
20:06 – 20:08
in groups where our wealth is
20:08 – 20:11
not measured by Bitcoin or
20:11 – 20:14
dollars in the bank, but how
20:14 – 20:14
many
20:15 – 20:17
people can come to our aid when
20:17 – 20:18
something goes wrong and how
20:18 – 20:21
many resources we have combined.
20:21 – 20:22
And
20:22 – 20:25
that's what real value is.
20:25 – 20:26
And that is what I would hope
20:27 – 20:29
is the outcome of the book.
20:29 – 20:30
And you might say, well, it's a
20:30 – 20:31
weird outcome from what you're
20:31 – 20:32
talking about.
20:32 – 20:34
But no, I don't think that's the
20:34 – 20:36
natural way for us to be living.
20:37 – 20:39
And I would say that this
20:39 – 20:41
weekend, you know, we're doing
20:41 – 20:42
this big festival and some
20:42 – 20:43
people quit at the last minute.
20:43 – 20:44
And people that haven't worked
20:44 – 20:46
for me in a year showed up and
20:46 – 20:47
said they're going to work and
20:47 – 20:48
called their friend who's an IT
20:48 – 20:49
guy to fix this thing.
20:49 – 20:52
And, you know, all that goodwill
20:52 – 20:54
and grace that I have in the
20:54 – 20:55
community from just
20:56 – 20:57
Shows back up and that's more
20:57 – 20:59
valuable than money.
21:02 – 21:02
You know, there are
21:03 – 21:04
political
21:04 – 21:07
elements to what you've written
21:07 – 21:09
about in your book only largely
21:09 – 21:11
because. so many of these issues
21:11 – 21:13
and these stories have become
21:13 – 21:15
politicized over the last decade
21:15 – 21:16
or two.
21:16 – 21:18
But there is this element
21:19 – 21:20
of
21:20 – 21:22
being on the conservative end of
21:22 – 21:24
the spectrum at its very
21:24 – 21:25
foundation.
21:26 – 21:26
Part
21:27 – 21:28
of being a conservative is that
21:28 – 21:29
there are
21:29 – 21:32
values and morals and things
21:32 – 21:34
that you have a desire to
21:34 – 21:35
conserve.
21:35 – 21:37
There is a desire to conserve
21:37 – 21:38
things and preserve them for the
21:38 – 21:39
future.
21:40 – 21:41
And
21:41 – 21:43
perhaps I shouldn't have framed
21:43 – 21:44
this question quite in this way,
21:45 – 21:46
but I'll just ask it from a very
21:46 – 21:47
open perspective.
21:48 – 21:49
What are the things...
21:49 – 21:50
I love your title.
21:50 – 21:52
I love the title, Debunked by
21:52 – 21:53
Nature, because I think if we
21:53 – 21:55
went back to the foundational
21:55 – 21:57
spiritual principles that are
21:57 – 21:59
evidenced in nature, that are
21:59 – 22:00
displayed in nature
22:01 – 22:02
as God's creation,
22:03 – 22:03
then
22:06 – 22:07
I just lost my train of thought.
22:07 – 22:08
What was my question going to?
22:08 – 22:09
Oh, my question was going to be
22:09 – 22:11
with that with that title and
22:11 – 22:12
with some of the things that
22:12 – 22:13
you've written about.
22:13 – 22:15
Oh, what is it that you want
22:15 – 22:16
people to know about the book?
22:19 – 22:21
That I'm totally honest, that
22:21 – 22:24
I share exactly where I was and
22:24 – 22:26
how I got to where I am.
22:27 – 22:28
And when
22:29 – 22:30
I say Mother Nature is
22:30 – 22:33
conservative, I in the byline of
22:33 – 22:36
the book, I do mean that in the
22:37 – 22:38
sense that there is things that
22:38 – 22:40
want to be conserved, that
22:40 – 22:41
nature is always healing itself.
22:41 – 22:43
It's always trying to get back
22:43 – 22:44
to a homeostasis.
22:45 – 22:47
And so I don't mean like
22:48 – 22:50
nature is Trump Vance.
22:50 – 22:51
That's not what I mean.
22:53 – 22:56
I don't think nature cares one
22:56 – 22:56
bit.
22:57 – 22:59
What I mean is there
23:01 – 23:03
is ways that are just
23:03 – 23:06
foundationally positive of God's
23:06 – 23:08
design that we can see in
23:08 – 23:09
nature.
23:09 – 23:10
And when we're being told
23:10 – 23:11
things,
23:12 – 23:14
socialism makes no sense in
23:14 – 23:15
nature. I mean, if you were to
23:15 – 23:16
take socialism and it doesn't,
23:17 – 23:18
you never see your cows being
23:18 – 23:19
like, you know what?
23:19 – 23:20
I really think I should be
23:20 – 23:22
sharing my grass with the
23:22 – 23:23
neighbor's cows.
23:23 – 23:25
He's over grazing down there.
23:25 – 23:26
We should break the fence in and
23:26 – 23:27
let them come in.
23:28 – 23:29
This is not how it works.
23:30 – 23:33
trees do plant share information
23:33 – 23:35
share food underground yes and
23:35 – 23:37
that's like all for the benefit
23:37 – 23:39
of the whole and but
23:40 – 23:42
it is in all of us to have
23:42 – 23:44
survival and not to be selfish
23:44 – 23:45
or that we should be narcissists
23:45 – 23:47
or selfish or whatever but you
23:47 – 23:49
can look that everything is
23:49 – 23:51
going to want to survive and so
23:52 – 23:53
this idea that we shouldn't,
23:54 – 23:55
that like survival of the
23:55 – 23:56
fittest or wanting to be strong
23:56 – 23:58
or wanting to be successful or
23:58 – 24:00
wanting to be entrepreneurial is
24:00 – 24:02
bad. I think it's in nature.
24:03 – 24:05
It's in us to want to do that.
24:05 – 24:06
And that doesn't,
24:08 – 24:11
it's not in us to want to do,
24:11 – 24:12
some people get hard jobs and
24:12 – 24:13
some people get easy jobs and
24:13 – 24:14
everybody gets paid the exact
24:14 – 24:15
same amount. That's not,
24:16 – 24:17
it's not,
24:17 – 24:18
it doesn't make any sense.
24:18 – 24:19
Yeah, exactly.
24:19 – 24:20
When you look at plants and the
24:20 – 24:22
way that they share information
24:22 – 24:23
and that they share resources,
24:23 – 24:25
plant communities, microbial
24:25 – 24:26
communities and so forth.
24:26 – 24:27
And and
24:28 – 24:30
one of the foundational aspects
24:30 – 24:31
of that
24:32 – 24:33
image is
24:34 – 24:36
that they are all producers.
24:37 – 24:38
Yes.
24:38 – 24:40
You don't just you don't just
24:40 – 24:41
get to just consume
24:42 – 24:44
without producing in a natural
24:44 – 24:45
ecosystem and expect to survive
24:45 – 24:46
in the long term.
24:47 – 24:48
No. And that's the craziest
24:48 – 24:50
thing when people say, I just
24:50 – 24:51
got an argument with someone on
24:51 – 24:52
Instagram the other day.
24:52 – 24:53
They're like,
24:53 – 24:55
Do you think that people's
24:55 – 24:57
income should be directly
24:57 – 24:58
related to their outcome?
24:58 – 24:59
And I was like, yes.
25:02 – 25:04
And I was like, do you think the
25:04 – 25:06
person that is greeting people
25:06 – 25:08
at Walmart gets paid the same as
25:08 – 25:09
the CEO?
25:09 – 25:10
No, because they're
25:10 – 25:12
like, if that greeter was gone,
25:12 – 25:14
I largely think that greeter job
25:14 – 25:16
is a kindness to give people
25:16 – 25:16
jobs that
25:17 – 25:18
can't otherwise work at another
25:18 – 25:19
job.
25:19 – 25:22
So this is not, it's not, it's
25:22 – 25:23
not an integral part of the
25:23 – 25:25
whole thing. If the CEO is gone,
25:25 – 25:26
then things are going to start
25:26 – 25:29
to fall apart. And this idea
25:29 – 25:30
that, and then this person said,
25:30 – 25:31
well, every, you believe
25:31 – 25:32
everybody was made in God's
25:32 – 25:33
image and everybody,
25:34 – 25:36
yes, in God's eyes, everybody is
25:36 – 25:38
of equal value, but you can't
25:38 – 25:39
expect the owner of a business
25:39 – 25:41
who's trying to support their
25:41 – 25:43
family to pay every single
25:43 – 25:44
person.
25:44 – 25:45
Even when we say diversity in
25:45 – 25:46
our culture, we mean,
25:46 – 25:48
diversity in the way you make
25:48 – 25:51
love or in the way that you
25:52 – 25:55
identify as your gender or the
25:55 – 25:56
color or how much melanin you
25:56 – 25:57
have in your skin.
25:57 – 25:59
But those people can do those
25:59 – 26:00
things, but largely agree on
26:00 – 26:02
everything else and have the
26:02 – 26:02
same ideas.
26:03 – 26:04
So they're not a diversity of
26:04 – 26:05
function.
26:05 – 26:06
They're just a diversity of like
26:06 – 26:07
on
26:08 – 26:09
the outside.
26:09 – 26:11
And so for me, true diversity
26:11 – 26:14
like exists in nature is all
26:14 – 26:15
these different things,
26:15 – 26:16
different species, different
26:16 – 26:18
plants, different things.
26:18 – 26:19
all together
26:20 – 26:23
functioning for themselves and
26:23 – 26:24
for each other.
26:27 – 26:28
Molly, where can people find
26:28 – 26:29
your book?
26:30 – 26:31
You can go to debunked by nature
26:31 – 26:32
dot com.
26:33 – 26:35
You could go to Acres website
26:35 – 26:37
because Acres published my book
26:37 – 26:39
or you could go to Amazon.
26:39 – 26:42
I know people hate Amazon, but I
26:42 – 26:43
know people love free shipping.
26:45 – 26:47
So people like free shipping
26:47 – 26:49
more than they hate Amazon.
26:49 – 26:51
That is what I know about life.
26:53 – 26:55
And so and I also.
26:55 – 26:56
write for Epoch Times like three
26:56 – 26:58
times a week if people want to
26:58 – 27:00
hear my weekly rants about
27:00 – 27:02
whatever I think about is going
27:02 – 27:03
on in the world.
27:03 – 27:05
You can find me in the opinion
27:05 – 27:07
section of Epoch Times every
27:07 – 27:08
week.
27:09 – 27:11
But can I ask you a question?
27:12 – 27:13
That was the first one.
27:15 – 27:15
OK, can I ask you?
27:15 – 27:16
I'm going to ask you.
27:17 – 27:18
So
27:18 – 27:19
I have an idea.
27:20 – 27:21
So do you know what Oakville is?
27:22 – 27:23
Yes.
27:24 – 27:25
Okay, so you know there's oak
27:25 – 27:26
wilt going on like crazy in the
27:26 – 27:27
hill country of Texas.
27:29 – 27:31
So I have a theory and I have
27:31 – 27:33
some preliminary evidence that
27:33 – 27:35
my theory could be correct, but
27:35 – 27:36
I want to run my theory by you.
27:37 – 27:38
So oak wilt is happening in all
27:38 – 27:40
these areas with highly alkaline
27:40 – 27:41
soil,
27:41 – 27:42
very little ground cover.
27:43 – 27:44
It's mostly these trees are
27:44 – 27:47
growing in just limestone or
27:47 – 27:48
caliche as we call it, like
27:48 – 27:49
crushed up.
27:50 – 27:51
And so I
27:52 – 27:54
put six inches of just regular
27:54 – 27:55
mulch from the cedar trees,
27:55 – 27:56
which are really juniper ash.
27:56 – 27:57
But here in Texas, if you call
27:57 – 27:59
them juniper ash, they look at
27:59 – 28:00
you like you're an alien.
28:00 – 28:01
So cedar trees
28:02 – 28:05
mulch down and it's largely
28:05 – 28:06
reversing oak wilt.
28:07 – 28:08
And so I have a theory that
28:08 – 28:09
there's oak wilt,
28:09 – 28:11
there's not enough diversity of
28:14 – 28:17
And so one thing is taking over
28:17 – 28:20
and that is why the oak will is
28:20 – 28:21
happening because I and I think
28:21 – 28:23
when I'm bringing up the fungal
28:23 – 28:25
load by adding 6 to 8 inches of
28:25 – 28:26
mulch and
28:27 – 28:29
then watering, it is reversing
28:29 – 28:30
in two years.
28:30 – 28:31
Totally. You can't even tell the
28:31 – 28:34
trees had Oakville and I think
28:34 – 28:36
that that is reversing Oakville.
28:36 – 28:37
But everybody's like you.
28:37 – 28:38
If you could just reverse
28:38 – 28:40
Oakville with doing that, then
28:40 – 28:41
everybody would doing that.
28:41 – 28:42
And I'm like, well,
28:43 – 28:45
Okay, I don't
28:45 – 28:46
know if anybody else has tried
28:46 – 28:47
it, but now I didn't take
28:47 – 28:48
pictures at the beginning.
28:48 – 28:49
It was literally just.
28:49 – 28:51
the realtor said, you're going
28:51 – 28:52
to have to take out these trees.
28:52 – 28:53
They're almost dead.
28:53 – 28:54
They were really bad shape.
28:55 – 28:56
And I was like, well, they're
28:56 – 28:57
giving me the littlest bit of
28:57 – 28:59
shade at the late afternoon sun.
28:59 – 29:01
So I planted pecan trees
29:01 – 29:01
underneath them.
29:01 – 29:02
And I thought, we'll just leave
29:02 – 29:04
them here until the pecan trees
29:04 – 29:05
get a little bit bigger.
29:06 – 29:07
And that was my plan.
29:07 – 29:09
But I put down a bunch of mulch
29:09 – 29:10
and water because I planted the
29:10 – 29:11
pecan trees.
29:12 – 29:14
And now you can't even tell that
29:14 – 29:15
they ever had oakwill.
29:15 – 29:16
They're just totally shade,
29:16 – 29:18
totally filled in, totally
29:18 – 29:19
beautiful.
29:19 – 29:20
And then the other one that's
29:20 – 29:22
like the best looking tree on my
29:22 – 29:23
property is next to where the
29:23 – 29:24
guys drop all the mulch.
29:25 – 29:26
You know, the trucks come and
29:26 – 29:27
drop the mulch on my property.
29:27 – 29:30
And this one is totally healed
29:30 – 29:30
as well.
29:31 – 29:33
So now I want to go and I look
29:33 – 29:34
on my property and all the most
29:34 – 29:36
sick trees are in the most
29:36 – 29:38
caliche soil, no ground cover,
29:38 – 29:39
just white
29:39 – 29:40
soil.
29:40 – 29:42
So I think I want to try this
29:42 – 29:44
and take photos and document it
29:44 – 29:45
is my next, I'm trying to get
29:45 – 29:46
some,
29:46 – 29:48
trying to get a TCQ permit so I
29:48 – 29:49
can get all this mulch from the
29:49 – 29:51
floods. I'm in Kerr County where
29:51 – 29:52
all those floods just happened.
29:52 – 29:54
And I'm trying to see if I could
29:54 – 29:56
just put six to eight inches of
29:56 – 29:58
mulch a couple times a year.
29:58 – 29:59
And if I could reverse oat will.
30:00 – 30:01
So what do you think of this
30:01 – 30:02
theory?
30:03 – 30:04
Well, it doesn't really matter
30:04 – 30:04
what I think.
30:04 – 30:05
It sounds like you already have
30:05 – 30:06
some preliminary evidence that's
30:06 – 30:07
worth pursuing.
30:08 – 30:09
Yes, I do. But I don't know if
30:09 – 30:11
you know the science, but I just
30:11 – 30:12
don't.
30:13 – 30:13
Well,
30:13 – 30:14
any time, you know, it's
30:17 – 30:18
once you start digging into
30:19 – 30:22
the multitude of possible
30:22 – 30:24
interactions and synergistic
30:24 – 30:25
effects that a health and a
30:25 – 30:27
functioning microbiome can have.
30:28 – 30:29
I mean, look, the reality is,
30:30 – 30:31
well,
30:32 – 30:33
you go to citrus greening and
30:33 – 30:34
citrus in Florida.
30:34 – 30:36
As an example, here we have a
30:36 – 30:38
bacterial infection of a plant's
30:38 – 30:39
vascular tissue.
30:40 – 30:41
And they're now
30:43 – 30:44
one of the more recent
30:44 – 30:45
innovations
30:45 – 30:47
and I use the word innovations
30:47 – 30:48
loosely here,
30:48 – 30:50
is they're injecting antibiotics
30:50 – 30:51
into the tree trunks.
30:53 – 30:54
And okay,
30:55 – 30:56
let's pause and ask for a
30:56 – 30:57
second, where do antibiotics
30:57 – 30:58
come from?
31:00 – 31:03
They come from fungus in the
31:03 – 31:03
soil.
31:05 – 31:07
And what type
31:07 – 31:11
of microbes are oak
31:11 – 31:12
trees particularly dependent on?
31:13 – 31:14
They're dependent on fungus.
31:14 – 31:16
They thrive in a fungal dominant
31:16 – 31:18
system, which by the way, is
31:18 – 31:19
very challenged in
31:20 – 31:22
an oxidized calcareous soil,
31:22 – 31:23
such as the ones that you have.
31:24 – 31:25
And so
31:25 – 31:28
there are dozens of possible,
31:29 – 31:30
probably hundreds or maybe even
31:30 – 31:32
thousands of possible mechanisms
31:32 – 31:33
and modes of action of different
31:33 – 31:34
things that could be
31:34 – 31:35
contributing to that
31:35 – 31:36
regeneration.
31:36 – 31:37
The reality is,
31:39 – 31:41
We could spend a lot of time
31:41 – 31:42
trying to identify them and
31:42 – 31:44
understand them, or we can just
31:44 – 31:45
go ahead with a cultural
31:45 – 31:47
practice that has observed to
31:47 – 31:48
bring results,
31:49 – 31:50
try to measure and document
31:50 – 31:52
those results and say, here's
31:52 – 31:53
what we did and here's what
31:53 – 31:54
worked.
31:54 – 31:55
And
31:54 – 31:57
let the research catch up with
31:57 – 31:59
the practical application, which
31:59 – 32:00
seems to be the recurring
32:00 – 32:02
pattern in the most innovative
32:02 – 32:04
landscape stewards.
32:05 – 32:06
Yeah, and I'm seeing it.
32:06 – 32:07
I think it's everywhere, not
32:07 – 32:09
just on the oak trees.
32:10 – 32:13
bale grazed last year on my
32:13 – 32:15
fields because there was little
32:15 – 32:16
to no rain last winter.
32:17 – 32:19
And so you can see where the
32:19 – 32:20
round bales were.
32:21 – 32:22
Right now, the swergum is like
32:22 – 32:24
as tall as I am and been grazed
32:24 – 32:25
once or twice already,
32:26 – 32:27
but it's that tall.
32:28 – 32:29
And everywhere else, it's like
32:29 – 32:31
calf, ankle, knee high,
32:31 – 32:32
wherever.
32:32 – 32:34
And it's not even like, oh,
32:34 – 32:35
well,
32:34 – 32:36
I was feeding swergum hay, so
32:36 – 32:38
it's extra seeds got dropped in
32:38 – 32:40
that area because I was feeding
32:40 – 32:41
grass.
32:41 – 32:42
So
32:41 – 32:45
just the residue of the circle
32:45 – 32:46
where the bale was, just that
32:46 – 32:50
carbon being left on the soil
32:50 – 32:52
has these circles on my whole
32:52 – 32:53
field.
32:53 – 32:56
that the hay is as tall as me
32:56 – 32:57
versus below my knee.
32:58 – 33:00
And so my thought, and I don't
33:00 – 33:02
know the economics and that's
33:02 – 33:03
why I want to try to get all the
33:03 – 33:06
waste from the river flooding if
33:06 – 33:08
I can get that carbon.
33:09 – 33:11
But I think just putting a
33:11 – 33:13
little bit of carbon on my
33:13 – 33:15
fields is going to be far more
33:15 – 33:17
useful than any kind of
33:17 – 33:19
application of nitrogen
33:19 – 33:21
fertilizer or manure because I
33:21 – 33:22
have done that.
33:23 – 33:24
I've done manure, I've done this
33:24 – 33:26
and seen very little to no
33:26 – 33:27
results. But you can literally
33:27 – 33:29
see these circles exactly the
33:29 – 33:31
size of the round bales all the
33:31 – 33:33
way across my field where the
33:33 – 33:34
hay is so tall.
33:34 – 33:35
And so I
33:35 – 33:36
don't know, but
33:37 – 33:38
I think it's the same kind of
33:38 – 33:39
thing that's happening with the
33:39 – 33:40
oak trees. And I want to figure
33:40 – 33:43
out how can I get enough hay or
33:43 – 33:45
wood chips to cover the whole
33:45 – 33:46
field.
33:46 – 33:47
I also had this dead spot we
33:47 – 33:49
couldn't heal where water was
33:49 – 33:50
just sitting.
33:51 – 33:53
And I put six inches of mulch
33:53 – 33:54
there.
33:54 – 33:56
It was like dead pan water would
33:56 – 33:58
not go down into it and there
33:58 – 34:00
would not nothing was happening
34:00 – 34:01
and and nothing was growing
34:01 – 34:02
because it was just like
34:02 – 34:04
concrete. Basically, it was
34:04 – 34:06
like. Mud puddle that would last
34:06 – 34:08
very long time and then concrete
34:08 – 34:11
once it was dried and I put wood
34:11 – 34:13
chips there and Bermuda grass
34:13 – 34:14
filled in over it.
34:15 – 34:16
In a matter of 5 weeks, even
34:16 – 34:17
though there's barely any
34:17 – 34:19
burrito grass in that field.
34:19 – 34:21
And so I think there's plenty of
34:21 – 34:22
nitrogen in my soil.
34:22 – 34:24
There's just no fungal load to
34:24 – 34:25
make it available.
34:25 – 34:27
And that's my observation, not
34:27 – 34:28
like a fact or whatever, but
34:28 – 34:30
that's what I'm noticing is that
34:30 – 34:32
what we need here in this soil
34:32 – 34:35
is is any kind of organic
34:35 – 34:35
fertilizer.
34:35 – 34:36
that's just desperate for
34:36 – 34:37
organic matter.
34:38 – 34:39
Well, I want to ask you about
34:39 – 34:41
the bale grazing, just so that I
34:41 – 34:42
understand it clearly.
34:43 – 34:44
You're saying right where the
34:44 – 34:45
circle,
34:45 – 34:47
where the hay bale is, you're
34:47 – 34:48
having this response.
34:49 – 34:50
Is it in that immediate, like,
34:50 – 34:52
is it a five foot diameter
34:52 – 34:53
circle or is it all of the area
34:53 – 34:54
surrounding that where the
34:54 – 34:55
livestock were trampling?
34:56 – 34:59
Just like the five or six foot
34:59 – 34:59
circle.
35:00 – 35:01
Really,
35:01 – 35:02
that is intriguing.
35:02 – 35:04
I'll take a picture for you and
35:04 – 35:05
text it to you.
35:05 – 35:07
What is interesting in your
35:07 – 35:08
caliche soils,
35:10 – 35:11
it was just
35:11 – 35:12
an interesting conversation,
35:12 – 35:13
serendipitous conversation,
35:13 – 35:14
because I was just writing an
35:14 – 35:16
article about this in response
35:16 – 35:17
to a number of different
35:17 – 35:18
questions that I received.
35:18 – 35:19
But
35:19 – 35:21
anytime we have soils that have
35:21 – 35:22
high levels of carbonates or
35:22 – 35:24
bicarbonates and so forth, there
35:24 – 35:25
is
35:25 – 35:26
this idea that in order to
35:26 – 35:28
regulate pH, we have to acidify
35:28 – 35:29
the soil.
35:29 – 35:30
And
35:30 – 35:32
Of course, acidifying the soil
35:32 – 35:33
with a chemistry approach
35:33 – 35:36
requires a very expensive
35:36 – 35:38
sledgehammer and a very big one
35:38 – 35:39
as well with elemental sulfur
35:39 – 35:41
applications or what have you.
35:42 – 35:44
And the approach that you're
35:44 – 35:45
describing underneath the oak
35:45 – 35:46
trees
35:46 – 35:48
and possibly also with the hay
35:48 – 35:50
mulch residue is when you have
35:50 – 35:50
an
35:51 – 35:53
availability of food source
35:53 – 35:54
carbon
35:54 – 35:56
that fungal populations can
35:56 – 35:57
begin to thrive.
35:58 – 36:00
Fungal populations produce
36:00 – 36:02
substantial quantities of acids.
36:05 – 36:07
They convert high carbon residue
36:07 – 36:08
into,
36:09 – 36:10
you could almost think of them
36:10 – 36:11
as being an acid generator,
36:11 – 36:13
if that is what the environment
36:13 – 36:14
requires for them to thrive.
36:15 – 36:16
And in this environment,
36:16 – 36:17
that is what the environment
36:17 – 36:18
requires for them to thrive.
36:18 – 36:19
So they generate a lot of acid
36:20 – 36:22
and create a lot of acidity,
36:22 – 36:25
which creates a pathway for lots
36:25 – 36:26
of nitrogen fixation and other
36:26 – 36:27
types of microbial activity.
36:27 – 36:30
So you can generate nitrogen by
36:30 – 36:30
producing acid.
36:30 – 36:32
levels of carbon in the type of
36:32 – 36:33
environment that you're
36:32 – 36:33
describing and in many other
36:33 – 36:34
environments for that matter.
36:35 – 36:37
And you can see it in the people
36:37 – 36:38
that clear cut.
36:38 – 36:39
You'll be like, wow, why does
36:39 – 36:40
their grass look so good?
36:40 – 36:42
And you realize they clear cut a
36:42 – 36:44
cedar forest and
36:45 – 36:47
just had it all shredded down.
36:48 – 36:49
And so the reason that their
36:49 – 36:51
grass looks so thick compared
36:51 – 36:53
to, say, my grass is that it has
36:53 – 36:55
all that carbon.
36:55 – 36:57
And so I totally agree with it.
36:58 – 36:59
And in California, it totally
36:59 – 37:01
was different. If I had put the
37:01 – 37:02
amount of mulch that I can put
37:02 – 37:05
here, like wood chips on
37:05 – 37:06
anything, it would steal from
37:06 – 37:08
the plants and the plants would
37:08 – 37:08
turn yellow.
37:09 – 37:10
But in this environment,
37:10 – 37:12
it seems that the soil just, the
37:12 – 37:13
more
37:14 – 37:16
carbon I can put on top of the
37:16 – 37:17
soil,
37:17 – 37:18
the better the plants are doing,
37:18 – 37:20
which is a totally different
37:20 – 37:21
thing to what would be happening
37:21 – 37:23
in California if I'd put that
37:23 – 37:23
much
37:23 – 37:25
wood chip mulch, it would steal
37:25 – 37:26
carbon, it would steal nitrogen
37:26 – 37:28
from the plants, and it would be
37:28 – 37:29
a totally different thing.
37:30 – 37:31
And that's why I think it does
37:31 – 37:31
have to do with what you're
37:31 – 37:33
saying is the acidity and that.
37:34 – 37:35
And everybody here told me when
37:35 – 37:37
I moved here, don't put cedar
37:37 – 37:38
chips, don't put juniper chips.
37:38 – 37:40
It's going to kill everything.
37:40 – 37:42
And I was like, so weird.
37:42 – 37:43
Why would God make this thing
37:43 – 37:44
that comes into this arid
37:44 – 37:46
environment and grows
37:46 – 37:48
everywhere? If it drops its
37:48 – 37:50
needles, I look underneath the
37:50 – 37:51
juniper trees and there's
37:51 – 37:54
like this much black soil on top
37:54 – 37:54
of rock.
37:56 – 37:58
Can't imagine God would design
37:58 – 37:59
this thing that would kill my
37:59 – 38:01
planes. Just chip it up and see
38:01 – 38:02
what happens.
38:03 – 38:05
But there's a lot of folklore
38:05 – 38:06
about the cedar,
38:07 – 38:08
like, oh, if you cook pizza with
38:08 – 38:09
it, you're going to die.
38:09 – 38:10
It's poison you or whatever,
38:10 – 38:11
like all these things.
38:12 – 38:12
And
38:12 – 38:13
we were ignorant.
38:13 – 38:14
And we had already been cooking,
38:14 – 38:16
making pizza and bread in our
38:16 – 38:18
bread oven with the juniper ash
38:18 – 38:20
when we were told it was that
38:20 – 38:21
you couldn't do it.
38:22 – 38:23
And as it turns out, it's
38:23 – 38:25
totally fine. You can totally do
38:25 – 38:26
it.
38:26 – 38:27
It's not ideal because it burns
38:27 – 38:28
fast. It's very good wood
38:28 – 38:29
starter.
38:29 – 38:30
It's very good oven starter.
38:31 – 38:32
It's not very good like coals,
38:33 – 38:34
long lasting coals.
38:35 – 38:37
But yeah, it's interesting
38:37 – 38:37
because
38:37 – 38:39
it's that kind of ideas where
38:39 – 38:40
we're so disconnected from
38:40 – 38:41
nature where you're looking at
38:41 – 38:43
these white cliffs and the only
38:43 – 38:45
thing that's growing on them is
38:45 – 38:46
these juniper ash and then
38:46 – 38:48
you're looking right below and
38:48 – 38:50
the mulch that's being dropped
38:50 – 38:52
from those cedar needles and
38:52 – 38:54
you're saying and it's this
38:54 – 38:56
beautiful black mulch soil
38:56 – 38:58
decomposing under those trees
38:58 – 39:00
and then people are saying oh
39:00 – 39:01
it's very bad for your garden.
39:03 – 39:03
Okay,
39:04 – 39:05
seems very good.
39:05 – 39:06
It's making soil on top of a
39:06 – 39:09
white rock shelf that nothing
39:09 – 39:10
else is on.
39:10 – 39:11
Well, the key to what you're
39:11 – 39:14
describing is actually observing
39:14 – 39:15
and paying attention to what it
39:15 – 39:16
is that you're looking at,
39:17 – 39:18
seeing what you look at.
39:19 – 39:20
It is.
39:21 – 39:22
And we don't. We don't.
39:22 – 39:24
And I've made those mistakes
39:24 – 39:25
too. I've
39:25 – 39:27
I've made an assumption, like, I
39:27 – 39:29
planted 40 ,000 dollars worth of
39:29 – 39:31
pecans in a field because there
39:31 – 39:32
was pecans growing around the
39:32 – 39:34
edges, wild pecans that seem
39:34 – 39:34
prolific.
39:34 – 39:36
Great. I'm going to plant pecans
39:36 – 39:37
here.
39:38 – 39:39
The truth is the way that that
39:39 – 39:40
field slopes.
39:42 – 39:44
Those pecans in the gullies
39:44 – 39:45
around the edges are totally
39:45 – 39:47
fine on the field.
39:47 – 39:48
There's just not enough rain
39:48 – 39:50
here. And so I lost 40 ,000
39:50 – 39:51
dollars worth of pecans and we
39:51 – 39:54
had 100 days, over 100, even
39:54 – 39:54
with irrigation,
39:55 – 39:56
those young pecans couldn't
39:56 – 39:57
survive.
39:58 – 39:58
And people are like, oh, well,
39:58 – 40:00
it was just an anomaly.
40:00 – 40:01
Well, no, I wasn't actually
40:01 – 40:03
being that observant and seeing
40:03 – 40:04
that.
40:04 – 40:07
The field is was pretty arid and
40:07 – 40:10
not that much grass growing on
40:10 – 40:11
the whole high side of that
40:11 – 40:13
orchard. And on the whole low
40:13 – 40:15
side, there's Bermuda grass and
40:15 – 40:16
there's a lot of
40:16 – 40:18
pecans growing, but it's all in
40:18 – 40:19
this area. That's collecting
40:19 – 40:21
water and. off of a greater
40:21 – 40:21
watershed.
40:22 – 40:25
And so I didn't then replant all
40:25 – 40:27
those pecans. I put in Asian
40:27 – 40:29
pears and peaches and things
40:29 – 40:31
that are doing better in this
40:31 – 40:33
environment with less water.
40:34 – 40:35
But even I've been,
40:36 – 40:38
yeah, made mistakes,
40:38 – 40:41
ego -driven mistakes where I'm
40:41 – 40:43
just like, looks like not really
40:43 – 40:44
observing kind of
40:47 – 40:48
I don't know, like observing on
40:48 – 40:49
the outside, but not looking
40:49 – 40:50
deeper than,
40:51 – 40:52
oh, I see pecans, plant pecans.
40:52 – 40:53
Like, well,
40:53 – 40:54
actually the environment from,
40:55 – 40:56
at least on my property here in
40:56 – 40:57
Texas, the environment in a
40:57 – 40:59
hundred feet from each other
40:59 – 41:00
could be a totally different
41:00 – 41:03
thing. And I have these big,
41:03 – 41:05
beautiful fields with black soil
41:05 – 41:07
that's all ran off the hills for
41:07 – 41:09
years, right? This big valley,
41:09 – 41:10
but
41:10 – 41:12
you go right across the farm
41:12 – 41:14
road and it's just white
41:14 – 41:15
caliche.
41:15 – 41:16
So I can't expect
41:17 – 41:18
That whatever's happening on
41:18 – 41:20
this side of the road can also
41:20 – 41:21
happen on this side of the road.
41:22 – 41:22
And
41:22 – 41:24
that's just
41:24 – 41:26
how it is here.
41:26 – 41:27
It's not all the same.
41:27 – 41:29
And so we have, we can't just
41:29 – 41:31
say, like, in Arkansas, you can
41:31 – 41:32
grow this in Florida.
41:32 – 41:34
You can grow this in Texas,
41:34 – 41:37
because we have to look even I
41:37 – 41:38
have an orchard that has these.
41:41 – 41:43
almost like a river of red dirt
41:43 – 41:45
that goes through the black dirt
41:45 – 41:47
or a river of white dirt that
41:47 – 41:49
where it's these veins of
41:49 – 41:50
totally other soil and
41:51 – 41:53
you'll see the trees planted in
41:53 – 41:54
a row and then there's this one
41:54 – 41:56
little tree that's in that clay
41:56 – 41:57
dirt or in that caliche dirt
41:57 – 42:00
that there's just you know it
42:00 – 42:01
just isn't growing it's a it's
42:01 – 42:04
surviving like but it's not
42:04 – 42:05
growing and so you have to
42:05 – 42:07
observe all those things um and
42:07 – 42:09
not just try to like you said
42:09 – 42:10
sludge hammer it out
42:11 – 42:13
This is one of the things
42:13 – 42:15
that... learning
42:17 – 42:18
from others and learning what
42:18 – 42:20
other people are working on and
42:20 – 42:22
what they're observing is
42:22 – 42:25
so valuable to train our own
42:25 – 42:25
observations.
42:26 – 42:27
But also,
42:28 – 42:31
we have to really understand
42:31 – 42:33
their context and how their
42:33 – 42:34
context differs from our own.
42:35 – 42:35
You know, there's
42:36 – 42:38
in earlier in our conversation,
42:38 – 42:40
you were talking about how you
42:40 – 42:41
one
42:41 – 42:43
of your desired outcomes is for,
42:44 – 42:45
you know, It returned to more
42:45 – 42:46
resilient communities where you
42:46 – 42:48
have this strength within
42:48 – 42:48
communities.
42:49 – 42:50
And one of the things that
42:51 – 42:53
I'm challenged by is that there
42:53 – 42:54
are many
42:54 – 42:56
people who have a deep and
42:56 – 42:57
authentic desire to be
42:57 – 42:59
successful homesteaders or
42:59 – 43:00
smaller scale producers.
43:00 – 43:01
Perhaps they want to put out a
43:01 – 43:02
couple acres of orchard or
43:02 – 43:03
whatever the case might be.
43:05 – 43:05
And
43:05 – 43:06
they
43:07 – 43:09
there
43:09 – 43:10
is this I
43:13 – 43:14
don't know quite how to frame
43:14 – 43:15
it, but there's this geographic
43:15 – 43:17
experience bias
43:17 – 43:18
where
43:19 – 43:20
so well,
43:21 – 43:23
There's this experienced grower
43:23 – 43:24
five miles down the road
43:24 – 43:25
who
43:25 – 43:27
has a lot of experience with
43:27 – 43:29
this peach variety or that
43:29 – 43:30
walnut variety or whatever the
43:30 – 43:32
case might be. And therefore,
43:32 – 43:33
that's what I'm going to try.
43:34 – 43:35
Or I'm taking a certain approach
43:35 – 43:36
to fertility management or
43:36 – 43:37
irrigation management.
43:38 – 43:40
And I really appreciated your
43:40 – 43:42
anecdote about the differences
43:42 – 43:44
within 100 feet, because those
43:44 – 43:47
differences do exist.
43:47 – 43:48
And in fact, they exist in the
43:48 – 43:49
majority of ecosystems.
43:50 – 43:51
There are some exceptions, but
43:51 – 43:52
the majority of ecosystems,
43:52 – 43:53
there is a significant
43:53 – 43:53
variation.
43:55 – 43:55
And
43:55 – 43:58
the experience of someone a
43:59 – 44:00
few miles away who has had
44:00 – 44:01
experience with an awesome
44:01 – 44:04
variety might transfer to your
44:04 – 44:05
situation,
44:05 – 44:06
or it might not.
44:08 – 44:08
And
44:09 – 44:10
the
44:10 – 44:11
that I'm
44:11 – 44:13
particularly frustrated by,
44:14 – 44:15
frustrated might be a strong
44:15 – 44:15
word, but
44:16 – 44:18
the piece that I'm particularly
44:18 – 44:20
disturbed by is that people then
44:20 – 44:22
try a
44:22 – 44:24
local recommendation or an
44:24 – 44:25
expert recommendation and
44:26 – 44:28
they don't have success with it.
44:28 – 44:30
And their first conclusion is
44:30 – 44:31
this variety doesn't work here.
44:32 – 44:33
This variety didn't work for me.
44:34 – 44:35
Well,
44:35 – 44:36
it might be worthwhile asking
44:36 – 44:38
the question of why not?
44:38 – 44:39
Was it planted in the shade?
44:39 – 44:40
Was it a different environment?
44:41 – 44:43
So there's, I'm using a variety
44:43 – 44:45
of framework to describe this
44:45 – 44:46
particular question, but
44:47 – 44:49
I think it's
44:49 – 44:50
so easy,
44:50 – 44:52
without a
44:52 – 44:54
lot of experience, it's so easy
44:54 – 44:56
to fall into a ditch on both
44:56 – 44:56
sides of the road.
44:57 – 44:57
One
44:57 – 45:00
is venerating local experience
45:00 – 45:03
excessively, and the other is
45:03 – 45:05
being too dismissive of whatever
45:05 – 45:07
didn't work for you without
45:07 – 45:08
really trying to understand why.
45:09 – 45:11
And I'm using the variety
45:11 – 45:12
framework for this conversation
45:12 – 45:14
deliberately because
45:14 – 45:18
I see so many varieties
45:18 – 45:20
that are clearly superior.
45:20 – 45:22
The superior varieties of apples
45:22 – 45:24
and tree fruit and just there
45:24 – 45:26
are very superior varieties who
45:26 – 45:27
are not in commercial production
45:27 – 45:30
because they have a flaw of some
45:30 – 45:31
type. Perhaps they don't store
45:31 – 45:32
particularly well,
45:33 – 45:34
or they're not as sweet.
45:34 – 45:36
They have a remarkable flavor,
45:36 – 45:37
but they're not as sweet as
45:37 – 45:37
people are used to.
45:38 – 45:39
But you can compensate for those
45:39 – 45:40
things
45:40 – 45:42
with nutrition management
45:42 – 45:44
locally in your context.
45:45 – 45:47
And so I see people working with
45:47 – 45:49
these varieties that are just
45:49 – 45:50
having incredible, amazing
45:50 – 45:52
experiences, and it's because
45:52 – 45:54
they have learned how to manage
45:54 – 45:55
them in their context.
45:56 – 45:57
And that knowledge can be
45:57 – 45:58
transferred,
45:58 – 46:00
but in far too many cases,
46:00 – 46:03
people try to transplant the
46:03 – 46:05
genetics and the varieties
46:05 – 46:06
without transplanting the
46:06 – 46:07
associative management that is
46:07 – 46:08
required to make it to thrive.
46:09 – 46:10
So anyway, I'm going on a rant
46:10 – 46:11
here. It's time for me to shut
46:11 – 46:13
up. No, I think that that, you
46:13 – 46:14
know, my husband grew up in
46:14 – 46:16
Mexico, which in some ways has a
46:16 – 46:18
similar environment to where we
46:18 – 46:20
are in Texas, but in other ways,
46:20 – 46:21
not at all. It's much colder
46:21 – 46:23
here in the winter time and
46:23 – 46:24
stuff like that.
46:24 – 46:26
And he got very frustrated with
46:26 – 46:27
corn,
46:28 – 46:30
squash and sesame seeds, which
46:30 – 46:31
are what he's accustomed to be
46:31 – 46:33
able to grow very, very easily.
46:34 – 46:37
And this last year, so twice he
46:37 – 46:39
planted sesame seeds and either
46:39 – 46:41
not enough rain and you don't
46:41 – 46:42
need very much rain for sesame
46:42 – 46:44
seeds, but we had a hundred
46:44 – 46:45
days, like I said, over a
46:45 – 46:47
hundred and other situations.
46:47 – 46:48
And then there was a
46:49 – 46:51
grasshopper year that was just
46:51 – 46:53
so crazy that the entire field
46:53 – 46:54
was left with only three stalks
46:54 – 46:57
of sesame because, uh,
46:58 – 46:59
the grasshoppers were just so
46:59 – 47:00
crazy.
47:00 – 47:01
Well, because the rain has been
47:01 – 47:03
so erratic and all this stuff,
47:03 – 47:04
instead of giving up, what my
47:04 – 47:07
husband did this year is in one
47:07 – 47:08
of our orchards that has pretty
47:08 – 47:10
wide rows, 25 feet, he decided
47:10 – 47:12
to take the no -till seed drail
47:12 – 47:14
out every two weeks and plant a
47:14 – 47:16
couple rows of sesame.
47:16 – 47:17
And then he was like,
47:18 – 47:19
so he was
47:20 – 47:22
basically hedging against the
47:22 – 47:24
rain and hedging against the
47:26 – 47:27
grasshoppers.
47:27 – 47:28
So did we lose some to
47:28 – 47:29
grasshoppers? Yes.
47:29 – 47:30
We lost a few rows to that.
47:30 – 47:32
Did we lose some to not enough
47:32 – 47:33
rain? Yes. But does he have
47:33 – 47:34
several rows right now that are
47:34 – 47:35
going to be able to be
47:35 – 47:36
harvested?
47:36 – 47:37
Yes.
47:37 – 47:38
And so I think that that was a
47:38 – 47:40
unique way to look at it instead
47:40 – 47:41
of saying like,
47:41 – 47:42
okay, I'm just going to keep
47:42 – 47:43
planting a whole field and then
47:43 – 47:44
something bad is going to
47:44 – 47:45
happen.
47:45 – 47:46
Now he marked this down and I
47:46 – 47:47
said, well, are you going to
47:47 – 47:48
plant this exactly the same next
47:48 – 47:49
year? He goes, no, I'm probably
47:49 – 47:51
going to do the same thing until
47:51 – 47:53
I have more knowledge because it
47:53 – 47:55
doesn't make any sense when
47:56 – 47:56
we don't
47:57 – 47:58
because the rain can be sporadic
47:58 – 47:59
and how the rain comes is going
47:59 – 48:00
to impact. impact how the
48:00 – 48:01
grasshoppers come.
48:01 – 48:03
And we need it to be coming up
48:03 – 48:05
in rain after the major
48:05 – 48:07
grasshoppers have already been
48:07 – 48:08
eaten by some of the predators.
48:09 – 48:11
So I don't know how to exactly
48:11 – 48:11
measure that.
48:12 – 48:14
And so that's what he's been
48:14 – 48:17
doing. And then this year he's
48:17 – 48:18
planted, we've had not very
48:18 – 48:20
great success with corn and he
48:20 – 48:22
just had this idea, I'm going to
48:22 – 48:23
plant corn really late in the
48:23 – 48:24
year.
48:24 – 48:27
And so he planted corn a month
48:27 – 48:28
ago,
48:28 – 48:30
and it's actually looking really
48:30 – 48:32
great. And we're going to be
48:32 – 48:33
able to have it as decoration
48:33 – 48:34
for the pumpkin patch.
48:34 – 48:35
We're going to make a maze
48:35 – 48:36
through it.
48:36 – 48:39
And then we believe it'll be a
48:40 – 48:41
harvestable crop of corn.
48:41 – 48:42
I don't have any
48:43 – 48:44
can't say for sure, but right
48:44 – 48:46
now it's as tall as I am and
48:46 – 48:48
starting to look like it's going
48:48 – 48:50
to head out. This is very late
48:50 – 48:51
in any way that I have ever
48:51 – 48:52
thought of growing corn.
48:52 – 48:54
I've never thought of planting
48:54 – 48:55
it in the end of August.
48:56 – 48:57
It's not something I ever would
48:57 – 48:59
have thought, but he was like,
48:59 – 49:01
it's not working in the spring.
49:01 – 49:03
We're having all these issues.
49:03 – 49:05
I'm going to try
49:05 – 49:06
to
49:07 – 49:08
do it in the fall.
49:08 – 49:09
And so,
49:09 – 49:11
Anyways, it's just an interest.
49:11 – 49:12
He's,
49:11 – 49:13
I think when there's nobody else
49:13 – 49:14
doing a lot of agriculture
49:14 – 49:16
around us, except for cows, this
49:16 – 49:17
is like cows, cows, cows, cows,
49:17 – 49:20
cows, because the terrain, not
49:20 – 49:22
many people have these valley
49:22 – 49:23
fields that we have.
49:23 – 49:25
So, because it's mostly all
49:25 – 49:27
hills, the majority of
49:27 – 49:28
everybody's land is hills.
49:28 – 49:30
And so, because of that, when we
49:30 – 49:32
went to the Texas A &M Ag
49:32 – 49:32
extension,
49:32 – 49:33
nobody had, they were like,
49:33 – 49:35
Bermuda grass and cows, just
49:35 – 49:36
Bermuda grass and cows, just
49:36 – 49:37
stick to that.
49:37 – 49:38
And so,
49:38 – 49:40
In some ways, it's been a little
49:40 – 49:41
bit freeing because my
49:41 – 49:43
experiences in upstate New York
49:43 – 49:44
and in California and his is in
49:44 – 49:46
Mexico. And then nobody had a
49:46 – 49:48
lot. There wasn't a lot of local
49:48 – 49:49
experts to tell us anything.
49:49 – 49:50
So, it's been a little bit
49:50 – 49:52
freeing for us to just have to
49:52 – 49:54
try things. And, of course,
49:54 – 49:55
there's been so much.
49:55 – 49:56
losses,
49:56 – 49:57
but I do think that we're
49:57 – 49:59
gaining valuable knowledge that
49:59 – 50:01
can help other people in the
50:01 – 50:01
area.
50:02 – 50:03
And we just started propagating
50:03 – 50:05
trees because people always come
50:05 – 50:06
and go, oh my gosh, your fig
50:06 – 50:07
trees are so beautiful.
50:07 – 50:09
Oh my God, this is so good.
50:09 – 50:11
So we've started ordering extra
50:11 – 50:12
trees and propagating trees and
50:12 – 50:14
we've made a little garden
50:14 – 50:15
center on the ranch.
50:15 – 50:16
So when people come to the
50:16 – 50:17
restaurant and they see these
50:17 – 50:19
beautiful figs, I can say, well,
50:19 – 50:20
yes, at least we know they grow
50:20 – 50:22
in this environment because I
50:22 – 50:24
noticed that the grocery stores
50:24 – 50:25
and the garden centers are
50:25 – 50:27
selling these varieties that are
50:27 – 50:28
actually not conducive to
50:28 – 50:29
growing in
50:30 – 50:31
this environment at all.
50:31 – 50:32
I don't think that there's.
50:33 – 50:35
Not enough chill hours, not, you
50:35 – 50:37
know, just like factually not
50:37 – 50:39
and I'm actually open to
50:39 – 50:40
experimenting things like in
50:40 – 50:41
different environments.
50:41 – 50:42
I'm super into that.
50:42 – 50:43
I did a coffee experiment in
50:43 – 50:45
California with the university
50:45 – 50:47
and I've done some longer chill
50:47 – 50:49
hour apples in California as an
50:49 – 50:51
experiment, but I'm just saying
50:51 – 50:52
when you're.
50:53 – 50:54
garden, you go to the garden
50:54 – 50:55
center, you expect that they are
50:55 – 50:57
picking stuff that is for your
50:57 – 50:58
environment, that it's not an
50:58 – 50:59
experiment.
50:59 – 51:00
And I've noticed that that's not
51:00 – 51:02
true. So I do think that we're
51:02 – 51:03
coming up with valuable
51:03 – 51:04
information,
51:04 – 51:06
me and my husband in this
51:06 – 51:08
experimenting time.
51:08 – 51:10
And of course, it's scary and
51:10 – 51:12
dangerous and financially,
51:12 – 51:14
but I do feel like valuable
51:14 – 51:16
information is being collected
51:16 – 51:17
out of it.
51:20 – 51:22
What you're describing is the
51:22 – 51:24
the essence of a lot of what
51:24 – 51:26
needs to return to many
51:26 – 51:26
different communities.
51:27 – 51:28
There is a great deal of
51:28 – 51:30
knowledge that is still held by
51:30 – 51:31
people who've been on the land
51:31 – 51:32
for a long time.
51:33 – 51:34
But there are also a lot of
51:34 – 51:34
things.
51:35 – 51:35
There's a lot of information
51:35 – 51:36
that we've lost.
51:37 – 51:38
And there are also many things
51:38 – 51:39
that we haven't discovered
51:39 – 51:40
because we've not been willing
51:40 – 51:41
to try.
51:42 – 51:44
So kudos, kudos to you for
51:44 – 51:45
experimenting. There is a little
51:45 – 51:47
bit of that happening in Central
51:47 – 51:49
Texas of like kind of a
51:49 – 51:51
rigidness and some information
51:51 – 51:53
being forgotten and some people
51:53 – 51:55
failing and then people get
51:55 – 51:56
scared and they don't want to
51:56 – 51:57
fail. But
51:57 – 51:59
I looked up a hundred years ago
51:59 – 52:00
before refrigeration,
52:01 – 52:03
the Central Texas area, because
52:03 – 52:05
of the mild winters, was growing
52:05 – 52:06
a lot of vegetables, was growing
52:06 – 52:09
a lot of food for this area.
52:09 – 52:11
But that's not the truth
52:11 – 52:12
anymore.
52:12 – 52:13
And we put in,
52:15 – 52:17
1500 fruit trees, 20 of each
52:17 – 52:18
variety.
52:18 – 52:20
And so I think that we will have
52:20 – 52:21
a lot of information.
52:21 – 52:22
They're only four years old
52:22 – 52:23
right now. So, but I think
52:23 – 52:25
moving forward, we will have a
52:25 – 52:27
lot of information that we can
52:27 – 52:29
share with other people.
52:29 – 52:30
And the other day, this older
52:30 – 52:32
gentleman drove up onto my ranch
52:32 – 52:34
and he said, what made you put
52:34 – 52:35
that orchard there?
52:35 – 52:36
And I said, oh, it was the best
52:36 – 52:37
piece of
52:37 – 52:39
Uh, place on the ranch for an
52:39 – 52:40
orchard has a slope.
52:40 – 52:42
So the cold air will fall down
52:42 – 52:44
off of it and it's protected on
52:44 – 52:46
both sides by trees and the
52:46 – 52:47
angle for the sun.
52:47 – 52:49
And and he said, do you know
52:49 – 52:51
that my grandfather and great
52:51 – 52:52
grandfather grew their vegetable
52:52 – 52:54
gardens in that 5 acres?
52:54 – 52:55
They grew their corn.
52:56 – 52:57
And he said, it's interesting
52:57 – 52:58
that the first thing you guys
52:58 – 52:59
planted when you got here, I
52:59 – 53:01
noticed the first thing that you
53:01 – 53:03
guys planted was that area.
53:03 – 53:04
And I said, what was the best
53:04 – 53:07
area to plant anything on the
53:07 – 53:07
ranch? And he said, well,
53:08 – 53:09
but I just, how did you,
53:10 – 53:11
how, like, he just couldn't
53:11 – 53:13
imagine how I knew generations
53:13 – 53:15
later that his grandfather and
53:15 – 53:16
great grandfather had used that
53:16 – 53:17
area.
53:18 – 53:20
And it was very interesting to
53:20 – 53:21
him. And he said, the people
53:21 – 53:22
that bought it, they ignored
53:22 – 53:24
that area. They just used the
53:24 – 53:25
big fields because they're
53:25 – 53:26
flatter and easier.
53:27 – 53:28
Nobody ever planted anything
53:28 – 53:30
there since we sold the property
53:30 – 53:32
30 years before you bought it.
53:33 – 53:34
And I said, I saw it right away
53:34 – 53:37
that it was an excellent place
53:37 – 53:38
to plant.
53:38 – 53:40
And so I think that there is
53:40 – 53:42
information in our communities.
53:43 – 53:44
And I actually took to driving
53:44 – 53:46
around and looking in people's
53:46 – 53:49
yards at varieties of trees when
53:49 – 53:51
I first moved here because and
53:51 – 53:52
asking people can I take a
53:52 – 53:55
cutting I've like snuck under
53:55 – 53:56
fences and taken cuttings of
53:56 – 53:57
like
53:57 – 53:59
a rogue pomegranate tree.
54:00 – 54:02
growing in no water out the side
54:02 – 54:03
of a hillside and like taking
54:03 – 54:05
some cuttings. But I've really
54:05 – 54:07
just taken to trying to observe
54:07 – 54:08
because there is very little
54:08 – 54:11
information specifically for my
54:11 – 54:12
region that's been preserved.
54:13 – 54:15
Well, Molly, I want to say thank
54:15 – 54:15
you for all the work that you're
54:15 – 54:17
doing. Thanks for the book.
54:17 – 54:18
I hope that it becomes very
54:18 – 54:19
popular and that lots of people
54:19 – 54:22
read it and it can contribute to
54:22 – 54:23
a shift in awareness.
54:24 – 54:25
I hope so too. Thank you so much
54:25 – 54:26
for having me on.
54:26 – 54:28
The team at AEA and I are
54:28 – 54:30
dedicated to bringing this show
54:30 – 54:31
to you because we believe that
54:31 – 54:33
knowledge and information is the
54:33 – 54:35
foundation of successful
54:35 – 54:36
regenerative systems.
54:37 – 54:39
At AEA, we believe that growing
54:39 – 54:41
better quality food and making
54:41 – 54:42
more money from your crops is
54:42 – 54:43
possible.
54:43 – 54:44
And since 2006,
54:44 – 54:45
we've worked with leading
54:45 – 54:47
professional growers to help
54:47 – 54:48
them do just that.
54:48 – 54:51
At AEA, we don't guess, we test,
54:51 – 54:52
we analyze.
54:52 – 54:54
and we provide recommendations
54:54 – 54:55
based on scientific data,
54:56 – 54:57
knowledge, and experience.
54:57 – 54:58
We've developed products that
54:58 – 55:00
are uniquely positioned to help
55:00 – 55:01
growers make more money with
55:01 – 55:02
regenerative agriculture.
55:03 – 55:04
If you are a professional grower
55:04 – 55:06
who believes in testing instead
55:06 – 55:07
of guessing,
55:08 – 55:09
someone who believes in a
55:09 – 55:10
better, more regenerative way to
55:10 – 55:11
grow,
55:11 – 55:13
visit advancingecoag .com and
55:13 – 55:15
contact us to see if AEA is
55:15 – 55:16
right for you.
55:17 – 55:18
Thank you for listening, and we
55:18 – 55:19
look forward to working with
55:19 – 55:20
you.
