Episode 166: Redefining Farming Through Health, Taste, and Technology with Martin Crompton

Martin Crompton believes farmers can win by focusing on nutrition and flavor. He encourages farmers to adopt marketing and business development to tap into the growing demand for healthier, nutrient-dense foods. Martin is operations director at Union Grove Farm in North Carolina, where he creates demand for their table grapes through a “pull” marketing strategy of storytelling and education. By leveraging AI and ag tech, Martin has found a way to optimize farming practices and enhance profitability for regenerative farmers.

Martin is originally from England. He began working in agriculture eight years ago, after a career as an executive for major global food companies. His corporate experience spanned sales, business development, and marketing for major retailers, though he never visited farms during his corporate tenure. Union Grove Farm is the first certified Regenified table grape vineyard in the nation, and aims to be the largest regenerative table grape operation on the East Coast.

In this episode, John and Martin discuss:

Martin’s journey from corporate food to regenerative farming
Challenges farmers face in transitioning to regenerative systems
The symbiotic link between food systems and human health
The importance of creating consumer demand by communicating the health and taste benefits of regeneratively grown foods
The role of marketing to help farmers build brand equity and connect with customers
The potential of AI to compress decades of agronomic knowledge, providing actionable insights for optimizing crop health and farm efficiency
AEA’s new product, Pinion™, which is designed to combat fungal and bacterial pathogens without disrupting the plant microbiome

Additional Resources
To learn more about Union Grove Farm, please visit: https://uniongrovefarm.com/

To try out FieldLark AI, please visit: https://www.fieldlark.ai/

To learn more about Pinion, please visit: https://advancingecoag.com/product/pinion/

About John Kempf
John Kempf is the founder of Advancing Eco Agriculture (AEA). A top expert in biological and regenerative farming, John founded AEA in 2006 to help fellow farmers by providing the education, tools, and strategies that will have a global effect on the food supply and those who grow it.

Through intense study and the knowledge gleaned from many industry leaders, John is building a comprehensive systems-based approach to plant nutrition – a system solidly based on the sciences of plant physiology, mineral nutrition, and soil microbiology.

Support For This Show & Helping You Grow
Since 2006, AEA has been on a mission to help growers become more resilient, efficient, and profitable with regenerative agriculture.

AEA works directly with growers to apply its unique line of liquid mineral crop nutrition products and biological inoculants. Informed by cutting-edge plant and soil data-gathering techniques, AEA’s science-based programs empower farm operations to meet the crop quality markers that matter the most.

AEA has created real and lasting change on millions of acres with its products and data-driven services by working hand-in-hand with growers to produce healthier soil, stronger crops, and higher profits.

Beyond working on the ground with growers, AEA leads in regenerative agriculture media and education, producing and distributing the popular and highly-regarded Regenerative Agriculture Podcast, inspiring webinars, and other educational content that serve as go-to resources for growers worldwide.

Learn more about AEA’s regenerative programs and products: https://www.advancingecoag.com

Podcast Transcript

0:00 – 0:02

Hi friends, welcome back to the

0:02 – 0:03

Regenerative Agriculture

0:03 – 0:04

Podcast.

0:04 – 0:06

This is Jon Kempf and today I'm

0:06 – 0:08

here with someone who is very

0:08 – 0:10

passionate about what

0:10 – 0:11

regenerative agriculture can

0:11 – 0:13

mean from a market opportunity

0:13 – 0:15

perspective and what it can mean

0:15 – 0:16

for customers, what it should

0:16 – 0:18

mean for customers and how

0:19 – 0:20

we can,

0:20 – 0:22

the different pathways by which

0:22 – 0:25

we can drive adoption of

0:25 – 0:26

regenerative agriculture coming

0:26 – 0:28

from a demand perspective rather

0:28 – 0:30

than from a push perspective.

0:31 – 0:32

But this has been a fascinating

0:32 – 0:34

conversation, one that I've

0:34 – 0:37

had a differing opinion and

0:37 – 0:38

differing points of view on at

0:38 – 0:39

various times.

0:40 – 0:42

So we're going to have a fun

0:42 – 0:44

conversation, perhaps some

0:44 – 0:45

debate or not. We'll see where

0:45 – 0:46

we align or where we don't.

0:47 – 0:49

So my guest for this episode is

0:49 – 0:51

Martin Crompton from Union Grove

0:51 – 0:53

Farm and from various other

0:53 – 0:54

endeavors.

0:54 – 0:55

I'm not sure what all you're up

0:55 – 0:57

to, Martin. I guess I'll let you

0:57 – 0:59

tell us which cookies you have

0:59 – 1:00

your fingers in at the moment.

1:02 – 1:02

Welcome.

1:02 – 1:03

Thanks for being here.

1:04 – 1:05

Tell us a bit about your story

1:05 – 1:05

in the context.

1:07 – 1:08

Certainly.

1:08 – 1:10

Absolute pleasure always to

1:10 – 1:10

connect with you, John.

1:11 – 1:12

I regard you as a good friend

1:12 – 1:14

and a mentor now, and I feel

1:14 – 1:15

very honored to have been

1:15 – 1:17

invited onto the podcast today,

1:17 – 1:19

which has been such an

1:19 – 1:21

incredible learning resource for

1:21 – 1:23

myself over the years that I've

1:23 – 1:24

been involved in regenerative

1:24 – 1:25

agriculture that I'd like to

1:25 – 1:26

thank you for.

1:27 – 1:28

As far as myself,

1:29 – 1:31

I'm one of these people who've

1:31 – 1:32

come into not just regenerative

1:32 – 1:34

agriculture latterly, but

1:34 – 1:35

agriculture and farming as a

1:35 – 1:36

whole. About eight years ago, I

1:36 – 1:38

had very little connection with

1:38 – 1:39

it,

1:38 – 1:39

direct,

1:39 – 1:41

other than earning my bread and

1:41 – 1:43

butter, as we say in England.

1:44 – 1:45

which is where I'm originally

1:45 – 1:46

from.

1:46 – 1:47

Anybody's wondering why I'm

1:47 – 1:49

North Carolinian farmer with

1:49 – 1:51

this particular cute curious

1:51 – 1:52

accent.

1:52 – 1:55

I started off my work career

1:55 – 1:57

in food but working for the

1:57 – 1:59

major corporates and some of the

1:59 – 2:00

big global companies.

2:01 – 2:02

And the interesting dynamic with

2:02 – 2:04

that, even though I worked my

2:04 – 2:05

way up to the leadership level

2:05 – 2:06

within some of these major

2:06 – 2:08

corporations is that I never got

2:08 – 2:10

to visit a farm or meet a

2:10 – 2:12

farmer, we visited a lot of

2:12 – 2:13

manufacturing plants, I got to

2:13 – 2:15

see a lot of stainless steel and

2:15 – 2:17

production lines, but farms and

2:17 – 2:18

farmers,

2:18 – 2:19

which is never even in part of

2:19 – 2:20

our conversation.

2:21 – 2:22

Interestingly enough, so full

2:22 – 2:23

circle several

2:24 – 2:26

Can you give us some context,

2:27 – 2:29

Martin, for what was the scale

2:29 – 2:29

and the size of the

2:29 – 2:31

multinational corporates that

2:31 – 2:31

you were working for?

2:32 – 2:33

Were we talking in the top half

2:33 – 2:34

dozen, the top 20?

2:35 – 2:37

I'd put them in the top 20.

2:37 – 2:39

So in the billions,

2:39 – 2:41

it was one of them, hundreds of

2:41 – 2:42

millions, a couple of others

2:42 – 2:44

that I worked for, and several

2:44 – 2:47

that were at national level as

2:47 – 2:48

well.

2:48 – 2:50

And what was the scope of your

2:50 – 2:51

experience?

2:51 – 2:54

Well, I would cut my teeth on it

2:54 – 2:55

with sales and then it turned

2:55 – 2:56

into business development.

2:56 – 2:57

I don't like using the term

2:57 – 2:59

sales. Sales always to me

2:59 – 3:00

strikes somebody who's trying to

3:00 – 3:01

sell you shoes or double

3:01 – 3:02

glazing. If you really want to

3:02 – 3:04

develop your business, then you

3:04 – 3:05

need to have an understanding of

3:05 – 3:06

what business development is

3:06 – 3:07

about.

3:07 – 3:09

And that ties clearly into

3:09 – 3:10

marketing.

3:10 – 3:13

So that's where the first 15, 20

3:13 – 3:15

years of my career were very

3:15 – 3:17

much involved in building out

3:17 – 3:18

business development and the

3:18 – 3:19

marketing side of things in

3:19 – 3:20

order to optimize.

3:21 – 3:22

whichever company or corporation

3:22 – 3:23

I was working for.

3:24 – 3:26

The type of food companies I was

3:26 – 3:27

working with were fundamentally

3:27 – 3:29

looking to sell their wares

3:29 – 3:32

through CPG, we call it FMCG in

3:32 – 3:33

the UK,

3:33 – 3:35

into the major food retailers.

3:35 – 3:38

And so people not familiar with

3:38 – 3:40

that terminology, what is CPG or

3:40 – 3:41

FMCG?

3:41 – 3:43

Fast moving consumer goods.

3:44 – 3:46

Basically, it's anything that

3:46 – 3:48

you can buy in the packaging.

3:49 – 3:50

If you go into a food retailer,

3:50 – 3:52

you automatically walk into the

3:52 – 3:53

fresh produce aisle,

3:53 – 3:54

everything to the rest of the

3:54 – 3:56

store. which is usually anything

3:56 – 3:57

between two thirds and three

3:57 – 3:58

quarters of that store,

3:58 – 4:00

is bought in a package.

4:00 – 4:02

A lot of that food is ultra

4:02 – 4:03

-processed, as we know.

4:03 – 4:04

It's come to the fore recently

4:04 – 4:08

with all the Maha reports that's

4:08 – 4:10

just been released, is that 70 %

4:10 – 4:11

of the food that most people eat

4:11 – 4:13

is ultra -processed and not

4:13 – 4:15

exactly highly nutritious and

4:15 – 4:16

good for us.

4:16 – 4:17

Where we're working towards now

4:17 – 4:19

within the regenerative movement

4:19 – 4:21

is to start to provide very good

4:21 – 4:23

tasting, but very high nutrient

4:23 – 4:26

and phytonutrient healthy foods.

4:26 – 4:28

So you can still get very

4:28 – 4:30

healthy foods within that CPG

4:30 – 4:32

category, consumer product

4:32 – 4:33

goods,

4:34 – 4:37

but fresh produce is where my

4:37 – 4:39

focus has morphed to over the

4:39 – 4:40

years since I moved out of that

4:40 – 4:41

line of work.

4:43 – 4:45

Yeah, so you and I have had this

4:45 – 4:46

conversation going back and

4:46 – 4:47

forth.

4:48 – 4:50

I've had the perspective

4:51 – 4:53

that I

4:53 – 4:56

don't have a lot of evidence of

4:56 – 4:59

positive consumer demand driving

4:59 – 5:00

significant market change.

5:02 – 5:04

And there are two key qualifiers

5:04 – 5:05

in that statement, one of them

5:05 – 5:06

being

5:06 – 5:08

positive demand as compared to

5:08 – 5:09

negative demand.

5:09 – 5:10

I mean, if there's negative

5:10 – 5:12

demand, if there's a salmonella

5:12 – 5:13

outbreak in spinach or whatever,

5:13 – 5:15

then the spinach market responds

5:15 – 5:16

in a very dramatic fashion.

5:17 – 5:18

So there are multiple instances

5:18 – 5:20

of negative demand having had a

5:20 – 5:21

significant impact.

5:23 – 5:24

But when you look at positive

5:24 – 5:26

demand, a desire for improved

5:26 – 5:28

quality or improved flavor,

5:29 – 5:30

There certainly are

5:31 – 5:32

changes,

5:32 – 5:34

but those changes from where I

5:34 – 5:35

sit have appeared to be

5:35 – 5:36

incremental. They've appeared to

5:36 – 5:37

be small, where we have,

5:38 – 5:40

look, after 30 years or 40 years

5:40 – 5:41

now, whatever the number is, you

5:41 – 5:43

have organically certified foods

5:43 – 5:44

that are,

5:44 – 5:46

at best, 10 % of the

5:46 – 5:47

marketplace.

5:47 – 5:48

And that is just one example.

5:49 – 5:49

There's many other examples.

5:50 – 5:51

5:51 – 5:53

there hasn't been a dramatic

5:53 – 5:55

change. But when we look at the

5:55 – 5:57

proliferation of non -GMO

5:57 – 5:59

verification that's now being

5:59 – 6:00

applied to all kinds of products

6:00 – 6:01

that don't even have a GMO

6:01 – 6:03

counterpart and natural, there

6:03 – 6:06

certainly is a shift towards

6:06 – 6:07

soft labeling

6:08 – 6:10

to create the perception of

6:10 – 6:11

improved quality.

6:11 – 6:12

I'm uncertain how much

6:12 – 6:14

significance and benefit that

6:14 – 6:15

has actually had to the farming

6:15 – 6:16

community at this point.

6:17 – 6:18

You have a difference.

6:18 – 6:19

And my perspective has been that

6:20 – 6:23

I haven't seen much positive

6:23 – 6:25

demand actually moving the

6:25 – 6:27

needle in a measurable,

6:27 – 6:29

beneficial way for most growers.

6:29 – 6:30

But you have a very different

6:30 – 6:32

perspective around that.

6:32 – 6:34

I'd like to understand what that

6:34 – 6:35

is and why.

6:36 – 6:39

It's basically tapping into the

6:39 – 6:41

general zeitgeist out there.

6:42 – 6:44

By that I mean the thought

6:44 – 6:46

process, the demand that

6:46 – 6:48

individuals have these days to

6:48 – 6:50

want to be healthier, more

6:50 – 6:52

vibrant and alive.

6:53 – 6:54

And a big part of that people

6:54 – 6:56

are realizing more and more is

6:56 – 6:58

the quality of the food that you

6:58 – 6:59

can afford to purchase.

6:59 – 7:01

You referenced organics.

7:01 – 7:03

That as you're quite rightly,

7:03 – 7:05

depending on which research you

7:05 – 7:06

read, it could be anything from

7:06 – 7:08

7 to 10%. In total,

7:08 – 7:10

in fresh produce, that goes up

7:10 – 7:12

significantly to 15%.

7:12 – 7:13

Because people are more directly

7:13 – 7:15

connected into the foods that

7:15 – 7:16

they're buying with fresh

7:16 – 7:17

produce.

7:17 – 7:18

But it's still a relatively

7:18 – 7:22

small comparative size of the

7:22 – 7:23

market, but it's in growth.

7:23 – 7:25

And the reason why it's been in

7:25 – 7:26

growth is because more and more

7:26 – 7:28

people are seeking healthier,

7:28 – 7:29

cleaner,

7:29 – 7:30

alternatives and buy cleaner.

7:31 – 7:32

I mean,

7:31 – 7:33

the less synthetic chemicals.

7:34 – 7:36

I'm not anti -conventional

7:36 – 7:36

farming.

7:37 – 7:38

I'm a regenerative farmer

7:38 – 7:39

currently.

7:39 – 7:41

I work for an organization

7:41 – 7:43

called Union Grove Farm.

7:43 – 7:44

They're a table grape

7:44 – 7:46

regenerative table grape

7:46 – 7:47

vineyard operation.

7:48 – 7:49

And we're looking at approaching

7:49 – 7:51

the market from a fresh produce

7:51 – 7:53

perspective and a CPG, a package

7:53 – 7:54

perspective through freeze

7:54 – 7:55

drying.

7:55 – 7:57

The visionary leader of that is

7:57 – 7:58

a gentleman called Greg Boland.

7:58 – 8:00

He's come into this again, not

8:00 – 8:02

as a traditional farmer over the

8:02 – 8:04

last decades, but he's come full

8:04 – 8:04

circle.

8:04 – 8:05

He's a VC.

8:06 – 8:09

So his magic sauce over the

8:09 – 8:10

years has been picking winners.

8:11 – 8:12

And what Greg saw several years

8:12 – 8:13

ago, getting on for 10 years

8:13 – 8:15

ago, was the opportunity to

8:15 – 8:19

almost bet the farm, as he calls

8:19 – 8:20

it. It's a VC coming in back

8:20 – 8:21

into the farming world, but

8:21 – 8:23

doing it in a way that takes

8:23 – 8:24

advantage of

8:24 – 8:26

the marketing, the business

8:26 – 8:27

development, the AI, the ag

8:27 – 8:28

tech, which I know we're going

8:28 – 8:30

to be speaking about today, and

8:30 – 8:32

look at how we can tap into that

8:32 – 8:34

zeitgeist, tap into that

8:34 – 8:35

consumer demand.

8:35 – 8:37

It's what I call, or I've been

8:37 – 8:38

saying this a lot recently

8:38 – 8:39

within the regenerative

8:39 – 8:40

movement, the difference between

8:40 – 8:42

a push strategy, which puts all

8:42 – 8:44

the responsibility on the farmer

8:44 – 8:46

to transition, this is from a

8:46 – 8:47

regenerative perspective,

8:48 – 8:50

and creates the pull strategy.

8:50 – 8:51

What's the pull strategy?

8:51 – 8:52

It's consumer demand.

8:52 – 8:55

So, what might surprise people

8:55 – 8:57

is that the one, two, and three

8:57 – 8:59

drivers of your purchase

8:59 – 9:00

decisions when you walk into,

9:00 – 9:02

certainly, a retailer,

9:02 – 9:04

a food retailer, or shop online,

9:05 – 9:06

those three key driving

9:06 – 9:09

decisions for your purchases are

9:09 – 9:10

not price, number one, it's

9:10 – 9:11

taste. People are looking for

9:11 – 9:13

something which tastes good.

9:13 – 9:14

Number two, it's price.

9:14 – 9:16

And number three, it's health.

9:17 – 9:19

Now, if you look at the organic,

9:20 – 9:22

part segment of that market or

9:22 – 9:23

the regenerative segment,

9:24 – 9:26

suddenly price isn't the second

9:26 – 9:28

one, that drops down.

9:28 – 9:30

It's taste and health.

9:31 – 9:32

So if you've got consumers out

9:32 – 9:34

there, and we're talking about a

9:34 – 9:35

significant slug of consumers,

9:35 – 9:37

15 % to 20 % and growing

9:37 – 9:38

significantly,

9:39 – 9:41

who are looking for the best

9:41 – 9:42

tasting and the healthiest

9:42 – 9:43

foods,

9:43 – 9:45

that's where regenerative comes

9:45 – 9:47

in. If you want to optimally

9:47 – 9:47

deliver that,

9:48 – 9:50

As far as food is concerned,

9:50 – 9:52

you need to be fresh produce,

9:52 – 9:53

needs to be regeneratively

9:53 – 9:55

grown, putting, as you know

9:55 – 9:55

better than anyone on the

9:55 – 9:57

planet, putting the health and

9:57 – 9:58

the vitality, the bioactivity

9:58 – 10:00

back into the soil,

10:00 – 10:02

turning that dead dirt,

10:02 – 10:03

lead as I call it, into

10:03 – 10:06

bioactive, life -giving gold

10:06 – 10:07

soil.

10:07 – 10:09

From that, you can grow plants,

10:09 – 10:10

which are super healthy, they

10:10 – 10:11

take care of their own immunity

10:11 – 10:13

needs, and then from there, the

10:13 – 10:14

fruit, the vegetables that they

10:14 – 10:16

produce or if the livestock's

10:16 – 10:18

grazing on regenerative or

10:18 – 10:21

organic matter then you've got

10:21 – 10:22

the healthiest most vibrant

10:22 – 10:23

foods.

10:23 – 10:24

That creates the opportunity

10:24 – 10:26

that we tap into.

10:26 – 10:27

We don't have to create that

10:27 – 10:29

demand. We have to tap into it.

10:29 – 10:31

How do we do that by

10:31 – 10:32

communicating with those

10:32 – 10:33

consumers.

10:34 – 10:35

And by communicating with the

10:35 – 10:36

people who buy the food and

10:36 – 10:38

we're looking for what we can

10:38 – 10:39

offer them.

10:39 – 10:40

And again, fresh produce,

10:40 – 10:41

conventional, organic or

10:41 – 10:43

regenerative can deliver that if

10:43 – 10:45

you want to. Optimally, it's a

10:45 – 10:46

regenerative way of doing it.

10:46 – 10:48

We have to create the story, the

10:48 – 10:50

narrative that will attract them

10:50 – 10:50

in.

10:50 – 10:52

It's part education, it's part

10:52 – 10:55

storytelling and opening them to

10:55 – 10:57

what this is really about and

10:57 – 10:58

how it benefits them.

10:58 – 11:00

That then creates a pull, a

11:00 – 11:01

demand.

11:01 – 11:02

And what I've learned over my

11:02 – 11:04

many years in business is is

11:04 – 11:05

nature abhors a vacuum.

11:06 – 11:07

So if there's more demand than

11:07 – 11:08

supply,

11:08 – 11:10

supply will rise up to drive

11:10 – 11:11

that, in which case that will

11:11 – 11:13

drive the regenerative movement

11:13 – 11:13

still further.

11:14 – 11:16

Okay, you just preempted two of

11:16 – 11:17

the questions that were in my

11:17 – 11:18

head with the next two questions

11:18 – 11:19

that I was going to ask you.

11:19 – 11:20

And that is when you speak

11:20 – 11:21

about,

11:22 – 11:23

the first one is when you speak

11:23 – 11:25

about developing a push versus a

11:25 – 11:26

pull strategy

11:27 – 11:29

and tapping into that demand.

11:31 – 11:33

The landscape from where I sit,

11:33 – 11:34

what I see happening is there

11:34 – 11:35

are many,

11:35 – 11:36

farmers who,

11:36 – 11:38

I mean, look, the reality is

11:38 – 11:38

from a macroeconomic

11:38 – 11:39

perspective,

11:40 – 11:41

many growers are in a very

11:41 – 11:42

difficult spot right now.

11:42 – 11:43

The majority are.

11:43 – 11:45

There are many that would desire

11:45 – 11:48

to tap into a demand for a

11:48 – 11:50

higher quality product and to be

11:50 – 11:51

compensated accordingly.

11:52 – 11:53

And

11:52 – 11:53

11:54 – 11:55

there is how

11:56 – 11:57

exactly

11:57 – 11:59

Do you tap into demand?

11:59 – 12:00

Is there significant existing

12:00 – 12:03

demand from your perspective for

12:03 – 12:04

regionally grown or higher

12:04 – 12:05

quality

12:05 – 12:07

products? And what does, when

12:07 – 12:09

you look at creating a pull

12:09 – 12:11

strategy versus a push strategy

12:11 – 12:12

of putting the responsibility on

12:12 – 12:13

the farmers, what exactly does

12:13 – 12:15

that look like from a practical

12:15 – 12:15

perspective?

12:18 – 12:19

So,

12:19 – 12:21

we're living in an age at the

12:21 – 12:22

moment where things like

12:22 – 12:24

regenerative agriculture have

12:24 – 12:25

come to the fore.

12:25 – 12:26

Organic's been around for

12:26 – 12:28

decades. I've been an organic

12:28 – 12:30

food consumer for 25 years.

12:31 – 12:32

What I didn't realize that

12:32 – 12:34

organic... Organic's basically

12:34 – 12:36

based off thou shalt not, so

12:36 – 12:38

it's looking to avoid spraying

12:38 – 12:41

synthetic chemicals onto foods.

12:41 – 12:43

or minimizing, mitigating, and

12:43 – 12:44

then eradicating.

12:44 – 12:47

What I didn't realize was that

12:47 – 12:48

unless we are also working on

12:48 – 12:50

the soil, and a lot of organic

12:50 – 12:51

farmers do,

12:51 – 12:53

some don't, because of the

12:53 – 12:55

practices that are out there, is

12:55 – 12:57

that we're not releasing the

12:57 – 12:58

nutrients or the phytonutrients

12:58 – 13:00

into the food, as we mentioned

13:00 – 13:01

earlier. That's what drives both

13:01 – 13:02

taste and health.

13:03 – 13:04

Interestingly, I didn't know

13:04 – 13:05

what a phytonutrient or a

13:05 – 13:07

polyphenol was seven or eight

13:07 – 13:08

years ago. I do now, and I know

13:08 – 13:10

the critical importance of that.

13:11 – 13:12

Now, the benefit from the

13:12 – 13:14

farming perspective of taking on

13:14 – 13:16

these practices is that you

13:16 – 13:17

eventually, over time, as you

13:17 – 13:19

build up the soil health, as you

13:19 – 13:21

know, then you've got healthier

13:21 – 13:23

crops that need less

13:23 – 13:26

sprays, they need less labor.

13:26 – 13:28

So, you're reducing down the

13:28 – 13:29

cost of

13:29 – 13:31

of the farming operation.

13:31 – 13:33

If you can tie that into an

13:33 – 13:34

increased demand at the opposite

13:34 – 13:36

side, then you've got the ideal

13:36 – 13:38

push pull dynamic.

13:39 – 13:40

As I've seen it over the last

13:40 – 13:42

five to six years,

13:43 – 13:45

overtly the emphasis is on the

13:45 – 13:46

farm and a lot of farmers are

13:46 – 13:48

confused by regenerative as they

13:48 – 13:49

have been in the past with with

13:49 – 13:50

organic.

13:50 – 13:51

How do we

13:51 – 13:53

teach them, train them, educate

13:53 – 13:55

them, open their minds.

13:55 – 13:56

And it was an interesting

13:56 – 13:58

conversation I had with someone

13:58 – 14:00

a couple of weeks back about, we

14:00 – 14:01

were talking about climate

14:01 – 14:02

change, the impact of climate

14:02 – 14:04

change and how everybody on the

14:04 – 14:06

planet is now focused on that.

14:06 – 14:07

I'm not getting into the ins and

14:07 – 14:09

outs of whether it's manmade or

14:09 – 14:10

not.

14:10 – 14:11

The reality is we're facing a

14:11 – 14:13

lot of extreme weather events.

14:14 – 14:15

To me,

14:16 – 14:17

tying back into the food supply,

14:18 – 14:20

and the quality of the food that

14:20 – 14:23

we produce is also and for

14:23 – 14:24

farmers to move into this as

14:24 – 14:25

well.

14:25 – 14:26

We need a change of mindset.

14:26 – 14:28

It's not climate change.

14:28 – 14:29

That's the biggest challenge on

14:29 – 14:31

the planet. It's the lack of our

14:31 – 14:34

ability to welcome and open to

14:34 – 14:35

change.

14:35 – 14:37

The best way to do that is to

14:37 – 14:38

show people the benefits.

14:38 – 14:39

There's a lot of pain out there

14:39 – 14:41

in farming at the moment.

14:41 – 14:42

Farmers, certainly small and

14:42 – 14:43

medium sized farmers, are

14:43 – 14:45

struggling to make ends meet.

14:46 – 14:48

So if we can tap into that

14:48 – 14:50

existing demand as more people

14:50 – 14:52

wake up, we can also tie into

14:52 – 14:53

the Maha movement.

14:53 – 14:54

Again, I'm not going into the

14:54 – 14:55

politics of this, whether it's

14:55 – 14:56

the left or the right.

14:57 – 14:58

irrelevant.

14:58 – 15:00

The reason why Maha Make America

15:00 – 15:02

Healthy Again has sprung up and

15:02 – 15:03

the particular focus on children

15:03 – 15:04

at the moment is that everyone's

15:04 – 15:05

got a concern around health.

15:05 – 15:07

We know that there are a lot of

15:07 – 15:09

broken systems in the world at

15:09 – 15:09

the moment.

15:10 – 15:11

The health care system and the

15:11 – 15:13

agriculture system are

15:13 – 15:15

symbiotically joined.

15:15 – 15:18

And I often say it's kind of an

15:18 – 15:19

oxymoron or a contradiction in

15:19 – 15:21

terms to call it health care.

15:22 – 15:23

What we've really got out there

15:23 – 15:25

is disease and illness

15:25 – 15:26

maintenance.

15:26 – 15:28

It's not really health care.

15:28 – 15:29

In order to be truly healthy,

15:30 – 15:31

we've got to bring things like

15:31 – 15:33

exercise, good sleep, rest, but

15:33 – 15:35

quality, high -quality, nutrient

15:35 – 15:37

-dense and clean food.

15:37 – 15:39

And people have woken up to that

15:39 – 15:41

now, and they're looking for it,

15:41 – 15:42

and they're shopping for it.

15:43 – 15:44

The regenerative movement has

15:44 – 15:45

got this opportunity to take it

15:45 – 15:47

on to the next level, but we

15:47 – 15:49

have to create the story that

15:49 – 15:50

will reach out to them, create

15:50 – 15:51

that narrative,

15:52 – 15:53

and then get that communicated

15:53 – 15:55

out to people so that they

15:55 – 15:56

understand. The other key

15:56 – 15:58

component part of this, as I see

15:58 – 15:59

it,

15:58 – 15:59

for those who

16:00 – 16:02

produce either fresh produce or

16:02 – 16:05

CPG packaged foods is to do it

16:05 – 16:07

is to also educate, connect and

16:07 – 16:08

communicate with the food

16:08 – 16:08

retailers.

16:09 – 16:10

We're seeing the likes of what

16:10 – 16:11

they call the supernatural food

16:11 – 16:13

retailers now leading the charge

16:13 – 16:14

in the regenerative area.

16:15 – 16:16

So you've got the likes of whole

16:16 – 16:17

foods and sprouts and natural

16:17 – 16:18

grocers.

16:19 – 16:22

They have long been exponents of

16:22 – 16:23

organic foods.

16:24 – 16:25

But it's the whole ethos behind

16:25 – 16:27

that is to provide healthy,

16:27 – 16:29

clean foods for customers and

16:29 – 16:30

consumers who are looking for

16:30 – 16:31

them.

16:31 – 16:32

They are now, they've now woken

16:32 – 16:34

up over the last few years to

16:34 – 16:35

the benefits and the potential

16:35 – 16:36

of regenerative.

16:36 – 16:38

So they are moving into this as

16:38 – 16:38

well.

16:38 – 16:40

We have to continue the

16:40 – 16:41

conversations and all the likes

16:41 – 16:44

of ROC and Regenified are

16:44 – 16:45

already doing this very

16:45 – 16:46

successfully.

16:46 – 16:47

That's going to broaden out in

16:47 – 16:49

the next one to three years.

16:49 – 16:51

And then we need as farmers and

16:51 – 16:52

farm operations and food

16:52 – 16:54

companies to be tied into that.

16:55 – 16:56

And talking of food companies,

16:56 – 16:58

we said at the start, I started

16:58 – 17:00

off working for the big food

17:00 – 17:01

corporations.

17:01 – 17:02

They've made commitments in the

17:02 – 17:03

last five years.

17:03 – 17:04

It was part of the conversation

17:04 – 17:07

I had with the owner and leader

17:07 – 17:08

of Unigrow Farm,

17:09 – 17:10

who's, as I said, very, very

17:10 – 17:12

astute business guy.

17:12 – 17:13

And I said, follow the money.

17:14 – 17:14

When you look at the big

17:14 – 17:15

multinational,

17:16 – 17:17

multibillion dollar companies

17:17 – 17:18

talking about regenerative

17:18 – 17:20

agriculture and change, then you

17:20 – 17:21

know there's a movement towards

17:21 – 17:22

that.

17:22 – 17:23

On the back of a napkin, you

17:23 – 17:25

could probably scratch out about

17:25 – 17:26

100 million acres that they've

17:26 – 17:28

committed to regeneratively

17:28 – 17:31

transition up to 2030,

17:31 – 17:32

31, 32.

17:33 – 17:34

It's tied into the climate

17:34 – 17:36

protocols, but it's also because

17:36 – 17:37

they see that that's where the

17:37 – 17:39

consumer's moving towards.

17:39 – 17:40

And the consumers, I said this

17:40 – 17:41

all the time, you can vote at

17:41 – 17:42

the ballot box,

17:42 – 17:43

or you can vote at the cash

17:43 – 17:44

17:44 – 17:45

Your dollar,

17:45 – 17:47

oftentimes it's not, will carry

17:47 – 17:48

a lot more weight than the X

17:48 – 17:50

that you put on the box, on your

17:50 – 17:50

ballot box,

17:50 – 17:51

on your ballot slip,

17:52 – 17:53

because that's where the

17:53 – 17:54

corporation is going to listen.

17:54 – 17:56

We underestimate the power that

17:56 – 17:58

the consumer has, but a lot of

17:58 – 18:00

that has to be driven by the

18:00 – 18:01

education side of things.

18:02 – 18:04

All right. So you just mentioned

18:04 – 18:05

the magic phrase.

18:05 – 18:06

A lot of that has to be driven

18:06 – 18:07

by the education side of things.

18:08 – 18:09

So from

18:09 – 18:10

a practical perspective,

18:11 – 18:12

I'm a farmer

18:12 – 18:14

somewhere in

18:14 – 18:15

great country in the United

18:15 – 18:16

States?

18:16 – 18:18

What impact can I really have?

18:20 – 18:21

And is it my responsibility?

18:22 – 18:23

And how should I expect to be

18:23 – 18:26

rewarded for consumer education?

18:26 – 18:27

18:27 – 18:30

see two challenges with this

18:30 – 18:32

conversation around consumer

18:32 – 18:33

education.

18:34 – 18:35

The one challenge is

18:36 – 18:37

this conundrum.

18:38 – 18:40

Charles Walters articulated it

18:40 – 18:43

once clearly back in the 1970s,

18:43 – 18:43

and I'm sure he probably

18:43 – 18:44

borrowed it from elsewhere.

18:46 – 18:48

I suppose you could say common

18:48 – 18:49

wisdom. He said that people

18:49 – 18:50

leave their senses as a group,

18:50 – 18:52

and they come to their senses

18:52 – 18:52

one at a time.

18:53 – 18:54

And

18:54 – 18:56

I suppose we can see this now,

18:56 – 18:57

that there is increasing

18:57 – 18:59

information being revealed

19:00 – 19:03

about the health impacts of the

19:03 – 19:04

shots that

19:04 – 19:06

were largely forced on people

19:06 – 19:07

over the course of the last four

19:07 – 19:08

or five years. There are now

19:08 – 19:10

very, we're understanding there

19:10 – 19:11

are very grave and very

19:11 – 19:12

significant health consequences

19:12 – 19:14

from those shots.

19:14 – 19:15

And I think that's that's

19:15 – 19:16

controversial anymore.

19:17 – 19:18

But

19:19 – 19:21

the reality is

19:21 – 19:23

that a large proportion of

19:23 – 19:24

people

19:24 – 19:26

are still bought into

19:27 – 19:30

this worldview that those

19:30 – 19:33

shots were essential and were

19:33 – 19:34

beneficial.

19:34 – 19:36

The majority of the population

19:36 – 19:38

hasn't woken up yet, at least

19:38 – 19:39

from the data that I've seen and

19:39 – 19:41

from what my understanding is at

19:41 – 19:42

this moment.

19:43 – 19:45

People leave their senses as a

19:45 – 19:46

group they come to their senses

19:46 – 19:46

one at a time

19:47 – 19:48

and when you look at consumer

19:48 – 19:49

education

19:50 – 19:52

if you just look at this from

19:52 – 19:53

the north american from united

19:53 – 19:55

states context all of a sudden

19:55 – 19:58

you now change from a you

19:58 – 20:00

know expanded the scope of the

20:00 – 20:01

problem of the audience that

20:01 – 20:03

needs to be shifted to i don't

20:03 – 20:04

know how many how many buyers

20:04 – 20:05

are there from a consumer

20:05 – 20:06

household.

20:06 – 20:08

perspective, 100 million people,

20:08 – 20:10

perhaps 80 million people.

20:10 – 20:12

So from a consumer education

20:12 – 20:13

perspective, you have this very

20:13 – 20:15

large audience that needs to be

20:15 – 20:16

shifted and they will only shift

20:16 – 20:18

one at a time until they cross a

20:18 – 20:18

certain threshold.

20:18 – 20:20

And there's significant demand

20:20 – 20:20

change.

20:21 – 20:22

20:22 – 20:24

we you and I are talking right

20:24 – 20:26

now on a podcast that is largely

20:26 – 20:29

listened to by people in the

20:29 – 20:31

countryside, by by farmers, by

20:31 – 20:34

agronomists, by ranchers and for

20:34 – 20:35

for this audience.

20:36 – 20:38

for the people who are engaged

20:38 – 20:39

in this work every day, from a

20:39 – 20:41

very practical perspective, what

20:41 – 20:44

can they do? What power do they

20:44 – 20:45

have to actually move the

20:45 – 20:46

needle?

20:48 – 20:50

Maybe farmers specifically,

20:50 – 20:51

you're talking, Joe.

20:52 – 20:53

Yes, for the moment, let's say

20:53 – 20:54

that.

20:57 – 20:58

When I present, I often,

20:59 – 21:00

in front of farmers, I often ask

21:00 – 21:01

this question,

21:02 – 21:03

what are you in business to

21:03 – 21:04

achieve?

21:05 – 21:07

And I get a plethora,

21:07 – 21:09

a smorgasbord of answers coming

21:09 – 21:10

in.

21:11 – 21:12

I'm in business because I like

21:12 – 21:13

farming.

21:13 – 21:14

I'm in business because I want

21:14 – 21:15

to grow healthy crops.

21:16 – 21:18

I'm in business because there's

21:19 – 21:20

a whole series of answers that

21:20 – 21:21

will come back in.

21:21 – 21:23

So I let people give me the

21:23 – 21:25

answers that they perceive off

21:25 – 21:25

from that question.

21:25 – 21:26

And then I ask the question

21:26 – 21:28

again more pointedly, what are

21:28 – 21:30

you in business to achieve?

21:31 – 21:32

And the answer to that, if

21:32 – 21:33

you're in any business, is to

21:33 – 21:34

make a profit.

21:35 – 21:36

If you're not making a profit,

21:37 – 21:38

you're either struggling or

21:38 – 21:39

you're going to go out of

21:39 – 21:40

business, which is what most

21:40 – 21:43

startups do over a short period

21:43 – 21:43

of time.

21:44 – 21:46

And small and medium -sized

21:46 – 21:47

farms, particularly,

21:47 – 21:48

are struggling right now.

21:49 – 21:50

Over half of farmers have been

21:50 – 21:52

in debt for over 10 years.

21:52 – 21:54

They're struggling to make ends

21:54 – 21:55

meet, particularly if you're in

21:55 – 21:56

the commodity sector side of

21:56 – 21:57

things.

21:57 – 22:00

Your inputs are only ever going

22:00 – 22:01

in one direction when it comes

22:01 – 22:03

to cost, particularly if they're

22:03 – 22:04

tied into petrochemicals, which

22:04 – 22:05

a lot of the inputs are.

22:06 – 22:08

And we're dealing with nature.

22:09 – 22:10

Mother Nature's a lot smarter

22:10 – 22:11

than we are. We talk about

22:11 – 22:13

battling with Mother Nature.

22:13 – 22:14

I've always preferred to,

22:15 – 22:17

I like to call it dance with

22:17 – 22:18

Mother Nature since I've came

22:18 – 22:19

into agriculture.

22:19 – 22:21

She's a lot smarter than we are.

22:21 – 22:23

So we can tap into the

22:23 – 22:25

intelligence that's there, then

22:25 – 22:26

we've got an opportunity to

22:26 – 22:28

create a collaborative alliance

22:28 – 22:29

with nature.

22:30 – 22:31

So farmers,

22:32 – 22:34

might be very, very good at

22:34 – 22:35

farming. I've met a lot of great

22:35 – 22:36

farmers, I've been blessed to

22:36 – 22:38

meet and have friends amongst

22:38 – 22:39

the farming community, but that

22:39 – 22:41

doesn't necessarily mean that

22:41 – 22:43

they are great at business and

22:43 – 22:47

very few understand the benefits

22:47 – 22:48

and the necessity of marketing

22:48 – 22:49

and business development.

22:50 – 22:51

So being great at growing food

22:51 – 22:53

is a different skill set from

22:53 – 22:54

running a market driven

22:54 – 22:55

business.

22:56 – 22:58

They don't They wouldn't think

22:58 – 22:59

twice about bringing an

22:59 – 23:01

agronomist in or someone like

23:01 – 23:03

yourself, AEA. We use AEA

23:03 – 23:06

products. We use AEA as a

23:06 – 23:08

consultant. We also use Gabe

23:08 – 23:09

Brown's Understanding Ag.

23:09 – 23:12

So in areas of specific need, or

23:12 – 23:14

focus, or where we want to

23:14 – 23:15

optimize, we will pay to bring

23:15 – 23:17

somebody in to guide us.

23:17 – 23:19

But there isn't that thought

23:19 – 23:21

process yet behind marketing and

23:21 – 23:22

business development.

23:22 – 23:24

And you're not naturally grown

23:24 – 23:25

into being a marketer or a

23:25 – 23:26

business developer.

23:27 – 23:28

So my view these days, and I've

23:28 – 23:30

been saying this more and more,

23:30 – 23:31

and sharing my, not just

23:31 – 23:33

thoughts, but skill sets behind

23:33 – 23:35

it, is to offer these services

23:35 – 23:36

to farmers.

23:37 – 23:38

People say, oh, we can't afford

23:38 – 23:39

it. Then it's what's the end?

23:40 – 23:40

Again,

23:40 – 23:42

if you're looking to achieve a

23:42 – 23:43

profit, what's the best way

23:43 – 23:44

through to do that?

23:44 – 23:45

You've got to reduce your costs,

23:46 – 23:47

and you've got to increase the

23:47 – 23:48

demand.

23:48 – 23:49

And you've got to do that in an

23:49 – 23:51

intelligent and conscious way as

23:51 – 23:52

possible, as you said.

23:52 – 23:53

So the farms,

23:54 – 23:55

in my view, that we consistently

23:55 – 23:56

treat marketing and business

23:56 – 23:58

development as core parts of

23:58 – 23:59

their operations, not as

23:59 – 24:01

afterthoughts.

24:01 – 24:03

So for farmers to want to move

24:03 – 24:04

on to a different level now, and

24:04 – 24:06

again this is where regenerative

24:06 – 24:07

and organic can offer them an

24:07 – 24:09

opportunity to move into more

24:09 – 24:10

premium markets.

24:10 – 24:12

Not everybody can do that, but

24:12 – 24:13

those that can,

24:13 – 24:15

this is a real opportunity area.

24:15 – 24:17

And we're seeing this again from

24:17 – 24:18

big money coming into the

24:18 – 24:20

agriculture sector.

24:20 – 24:22

There's companies like Farmland

24:22 – 24:23

LP. There's companies like

24:23 – 24:24

Agriculture Capital.

24:25 – 24:26

These are companies that invest

24:26 – 24:27

in agricultural land.

24:28 – 24:30

But they'll take a monocrop or a

24:30 – 24:32

duocrop farm operation that's

24:32 – 24:33

conventional,

24:33 – 24:34

and they'll convert it into

24:34 – 24:36

multicrop, specialty crop, fresh

24:36 – 24:37

produce,

24:37 – 24:38

and then move them into organic

24:38 – 24:39

and regenerative.

24:39 – 24:40

Why are they doing that?

24:40 – 24:42

Because that puts extra value on

24:42 – 24:44

the farm operation, on the

24:44 – 24:45

crops,

24:45 – 24:46

the land.

24:46 – 24:48

So this is tying in again, it's

24:48 – 24:50

the business ethos all the time

24:50 – 24:51

that we have to encourage

24:51 – 24:52

farmers to come on board with,

24:53 – 24:54

if they feel uncomfortable with

24:54 – 24:56

that, or they feel they need

24:56 – 24:57

guidance, there's plenty of

24:57 – 24:58

support that you can tap into

24:58 – 24:59

out there.

24:59 – 25:01

And that's what this is about in

25:01 – 25:03

this next phase of moving

25:03 – 25:06

American agriculture and global

25:06 – 25:07

agriculture to the next level.

25:08 – 25:10

All right. So once more, I'm

25:10 – 25:11

trying to put myself in the

25:11 – 25:14

position of a

25:14 – 25:15

common,

25:16 – 25:16

well,

25:17 – 25:18

that word could have negative

25:18 – 25:20

connotation, I suppose, but a

25:20 – 25:22

usual or typical grower.

25:23 – 25:24

And of course, growers are

25:24 – 25:27

producing a wide spectrum, a

25:27 – 25:28

wide variety of crops all across

25:28 – 25:30

the country. But putting myself

25:30 – 25:31

into the shoes of a typical

25:31 – 25:32

grower,

25:33 – 25:34

many of them,

25:35 – 25:36

majority of them are the crops

25:36 – 25:37

that they're producing.

25:38 – 25:39

There isn't

25:39 – 25:40

any,

25:41 – 25:43

and I would argue that this is

25:43 – 25:45

true for many fresh market

25:45 – 25:46

produce and fruit and vegetable

25:46 – 25:48

growers as well, is they don't

25:48 – 25:48

have

25:49 – 25:51

significant leverage

25:52 – 25:53

25:53 – 25:54

having a

25:54 – 25:56

great deal of brand equity or

25:56 – 25:57

brand value.

25:58 – 25:59

The large retailers, for

25:59 – 26:00

example,

26:00 – 26:02

they're usually buying based on

26:02 – 26:04

market window, what products are

26:04 – 26:05

available in a certain market

26:05 – 26:06

window, in a certain context.

26:07 – 26:08

They're, of course, looking for

26:08 – 26:09

certain quality characteristics,

26:09 – 26:11

such as storability,

26:11 – 26:12

shippability,

26:12 – 26:14

and lack of loss in transport

26:14 – 26:16

through the supply chain.

26:18 – 26:19

26:18 – 26:20

26:20 – 26:23

this fresh space, in particular,

26:24 – 26:26

there doesn't seem to be a great

26:26 – 26:27

deal of value

26:28 – 26:29

26:29 – 26:31

having a lot of brand equity.

26:31 – 26:32

Brand equity is usually very

26:32 – 26:33

fleeting.

26:33 – 26:36

So within all that, I'd

26:37 – 26:37

like to get your thoughts and

26:37 – 26:39

your perspective on how do you

26:39 – 26:42

actually create demand and how

26:42 – 26:44

do you do business development

26:44 – 26:45

effectively in that type of

26:45 – 26:46

environment?

26:48 – 26:50

Amongst the dynamic we've been

26:50 – 26:52

talking about of this greater

26:52 – 26:55

awareness and greater demand

26:55 – 26:57

healthier, better tasting foods,

26:58 – 26:59

again, fresh produce

26:59 – 27:00

specifically, but the same

27:00 – 27:01

applies to CPG.

27:02 – 27:03

We've seen a movement,

27:03 – 27:04

and if we're going to reference,

27:04 – 27:06

as you've stated,

27:06 – 27:09

fresh produce particularly,

27:09 – 27:11

there's been a growing movement

27:11 – 27:13

over well over a decade of what

27:13 – 27:15

they call farm to fork within

27:15 – 27:18

restaurants or farm to table.

27:19 – 27:21

where people are looking at one

27:21 – 27:22

of the key dynamics that people

27:22 – 27:23

look out for,

27:23 – 27:25

particularly in fresh food is

27:25 – 27:27

whether it's local, going to any

27:27 – 27:30

local food retailer, go shop at

27:30 – 27:31

a farmer's market is the obvious

27:31 – 27:32

case, but going to any local

27:32 – 27:34

food retailer,

27:34 – 27:35

whether it's a supernatural like

27:35 – 27:37

a Whole Foods or a Sprouts,

27:37 – 27:39

or it's one of the mainstream

27:39 – 27:40

boys like a Walmart,

27:41 – 27:42

Kroger,

27:41 – 27:44

you'll see the appetizing and

27:44 – 27:45

the promotion and the story

27:45 – 27:47

behind local

27:48 – 27:50

farmers and local food, locally

27:50 – 27:52

grown food. People buy into

27:52 – 27:52

that.

27:52 – 27:54

We've kind of lost connection

27:54 – 27:56

with where our food comes from,

27:56 – 27:57

the supply chain.

27:57 – 27:59

Everything is bought, as I said,

27:59 – 28:00

most of the food that we buy is

28:00 – 28:01

bought in a package.

28:01 – 28:03

There's no connection with that

28:03 – 28:04

coming from a farm, being grown

28:04 – 28:06

in the soil or having livestock

28:06 – 28:09

graze on pasture.

28:09 – 28:11

It comes in a way that's easily

28:11 – 28:12

packaged.

28:12 – 28:13

It's

28:14 – 28:16

created and manufactured for

28:16 – 28:18

speed and for convenience and

28:18 – 28:19

for price.

28:20 – 28:22

Whereas there's been a growing

28:22 – 28:24

movement over the last few

28:24 – 28:24

years,

28:24 – 28:26

both in restaurants and in food

28:26 – 28:29

retailers, for the benefits of

28:29 – 28:32

having locally produced produce.

28:32 – 28:34

That's something which farmers

28:35 – 28:36

the more astute farmers out

28:36 – 28:37

there. And there's a number of

28:37 – 28:39

them who have woken up to this

28:39 – 28:40

and are doing it in a really

28:40 – 28:42

excellent way of taking

28:42 – 28:43

advantage of.

28:43 – 28:45

You've got people on a national

28:45 – 28:47

level that are doing it as well.

28:47 – 28:49

So the opportunity

28:50 – 28:52

there to tap into these

28:52 – 28:53

dynamics. What we've got to have

28:53 – 28:54

an understanding of what

28:54 – 28:56

dynamics are specific and

28:56 – 28:58

advantageous to the crops that

28:58 – 28:59

you're growing.

28:59 – 29:01

And then all the ways that you

29:01 – 29:03

can embellish that improve that

29:03 – 29:04

optimize that.

29:04 – 29:06

And this is why as I said the

29:06 – 29:08

potential to move from

29:08 – 29:10

commodity conventional through

29:10 – 29:12

organic to regenerative is

29:12 – 29:14

allowing you to move into more

29:14 – 29:15

premium pricing.

29:16 – 29:18

And you mentioned it earlier

29:18 – 29:20

about how we increase that

29:20 – 29:22

supply. So how do you increase

29:22 – 29:23

that demand. How do you

29:23 – 29:25

incentivize that demand to grow

29:25 – 29:26

so that there's a greater pull

29:26 – 29:27

through.

29:28 – 29:29

It's something called the bell

29:29 – 29:30

curve. It's like a universal

29:30 – 29:31

law.

29:31 – 29:32

And I'm going to go into the

29:32 – 29:34

intricacies of it from an

29:34 – 29:35

economics perspective.

29:35 – 29:37

But you have a small slice of

29:37 – 29:38

people at the front end who they

29:38 – 29:39

call the innovators.

29:40 – 29:41

Behind that you've got the early

29:41 – 29:42

adopters. Behind that you've got

29:42 – 29:43

the early majority.

29:44 – 29:45

You have to funnel

29:45 – 29:47

people into those different

29:47 – 29:48

segments.

29:48 – 29:50

And then once you've got those

29:50 – 29:51

three coming in behind, the

29:51 – 29:53

majority of the laggards come in

29:53 – 29:55

as well. So this is a movement

29:55 – 29:56

that can start off on a

29:56 – 29:58

relatively small level, like

29:58 – 30:00

organic did in the past, it was

30:00 – 30:02

less than 1%. Now it's 15 to 10

30:02 – 30:04

to 15%. Regenerative is going to

30:04 – 30:06

follow a very similar path,

30:06 – 30:08

tie that into local

30:08 – 30:10

build the story behind that and

30:10 – 30:11

suddenly you've got something

30:11 – 30:13

which people will buy into as a

30:13 – 30:15

consumer and they will be

30:15 – 30:16

prepared to pay a price for

30:16 – 30:17

that.

30:17 – 30:19

And then how we differentiate

30:19 – 30:21

that with the people that we've

30:21 – 30:22

got to sell our products to.

30:22 – 30:24

So we have a customer as a

30:24 – 30:26

farmer not necessarily direct

30:26 – 30:27

through to the consumer.

30:28 – 30:30

You can do DTC which is direct

30:30 – 30:31

to consumer whether you're

30:31 – 30:32

selling online

30:32 – 30:33

or whether you get people coming

30:33 – 30:35

to the farm or you sell at the

30:35 – 30:36

farmers market.

30:36 – 30:37

But a lot of the time we're

30:37 – 30:38

having to go through an

30:38 – 30:39

intermediary.

30:39 – 30:40

And this is another great

30:40 – 30:42

challenge as you and I have had

30:42 – 30:44

conversations before about how

30:44 – 30:46

95 percent of profit that

30:46 – 30:49

is generated in that supply

30:49 – 30:51

chain goes out of the farm gate.

30:52 – 30:54

5%, usually around 5%, is

30:54 – 30:55

retained by the farmer.

30:55 – 30:57

The rest of it is gobbled up in

30:57 – 30:58

the supply chain.

30:58 – 30:59

So the price that consumers

30:59 – 31:01

paying is nothing like the price

31:01 – 31:03

that the farmer is getting.

31:03 – 31:04

How do we increase that

31:04 – 31:06

percentage share for the farmer

31:06 – 31:08

to make his farm operation more

31:08 – 31:10

viable and more profitable.

31:10 – 31:11

And this is again where

31:11 – 31:12

marketing and business

31:12 – 31:14

development comes in.

31:14 – 31:16

We have to give them the tools.

31:16 – 31:17

We have to give them the

31:17 – 31:19

education to build this out.

31:20 – 31:21

The bigger boys

31:22 – 31:23

are already doing it relatively

31:23 – 31:24

well.

31:24 – 31:26

The small and medium size, I

31:26 – 31:27

feel, have got opportunities to

31:27 – 31:29

move forward, potentially even

31:29 – 31:30

looking at a cooperative.

31:31 – 31:34

We have to be creative in how we

31:34 – 31:36

create these solutions.

31:37 – 31:38

31:39 – 31:41

I'm thinking

31:42 – 31:43

about what you're describing,

31:43 – 31:45

and I'm struggling to reconcile

31:45 – 31:47

a couple of what appear to me to

31:47 – 31:48

be disparate points.

31:48 – 31:50

So you mentioned the development

31:50 – 31:51

of a push versus a pull

31:51 – 31:53

strategy, of the push strategy

31:53 – 31:54

being

31:54 – 31:57

that of we are essentially

31:58 – 32:01

the CPG companies, whatever

32:01 – 32:03

market forces or regulatory

32:03 – 32:05

forces might come into play in

32:05 – 32:07

the future, where there is this

32:07 – 32:08

pressure

32:08 – 32:10

on farmers to

32:11 – 32:13

shift to regenerative

32:13 – 32:13

agriculture,

32:14 – 32:16

perhaps with or without

32:16 – 32:19

additional compensation or

32:19 – 32:20

additional rewards for producing

32:20 – 32:22

a higher quality product or

32:22 – 32:23

better ecosystem outcomes or

32:23 – 32:24

whatever the case might be.

32:25 – 32:26

And then you also

32:28 – 32:30

spoke about a push versus a pull

32:30 – 32:32

perspective from a particularly

32:32 – 32:33

a pull perspective in the

32:33 – 32:36

context of creating consumer

32:36 – 32:37

demand.

32:38 – 32:38

And what

32:39 – 32:41

I'm hearing you describe, if I'm

32:41 – 32:43

understanding it correctly, is

32:43 – 32:44

you're suggesting that we create

32:44 – 32:46

consumer demand by having

32:46 – 32:48

thousands or tens of thousands

32:48 – 32:49

of different farmers and growers

32:49 – 32:51

communicating their story

32:51 – 32:52

effectively to the public,

32:52 – 32:54

which in some sense, and

32:54 – 32:56

becoming better at marketing,

32:56 – 32:57

becoming better at business

32:57 – 32:58

development,

32:58 – 33:01

which is a different

33:01 – 33:02

framing

33:02 – 33:04

But in a certain sense, again,

33:05 – 33:07

puts the responsibility back on

33:07 – 33:08

the farmers to to

33:09 – 33:10

become better marketers, to

33:10 – 33:11

become better at business

33:11 – 33:12

development, to become better at

33:13 – 33:15

at communicating their story.

33:15 – 33:17

And so it again places the

33:17 – 33:18

responsibility on them for

33:18 – 33:19

creating the poll.

33:20 – 33:21

Is that what you're saying in

33:21 – 33:22

essence?

33:23 – 33:25

Well, as always in life, you can

33:25 – 33:27

seek to do this individually, or

33:27 – 33:28

you can seek to do it

33:28 – 33:29

collectively.

33:30 – 33:31

There's a number of

33:31 – 33:33

organizations out there now that

33:33 – 33:36

can offer guidance, support,

33:36 – 33:40

advice in these specific areas.

33:40 – 33:42

I'll reference yourself.

33:44 – 33:45

and understanding ag as being

33:45 – 33:47

standout in that area with

33:47 – 33:49

regard to agronomic advice and

33:49 – 33:50

support. And I'm sure we will be

33:50 – 33:52

speaking at some point during

33:52 – 33:54

the podcast on ag tech,

33:55 – 33:56

precision agriculture, the

33:56 – 33:57

robotics,

33:57 – 33:59

the automation that's coming in

33:59 – 34:00

from new technology,

34:00 – 34:02

and AI specifically.

34:02 – 34:04

So all these things, we've got

34:04 – 34:06

existing tools that have been

34:06 – 34:07

around since the arc as far as

34:07 – 34:08

farms concerned.

34:08 – 34:10

We've seen this mass industrial

34:10 – 34:11

revolution take off.

34:11 – 34:13

over the past century and now

34:13 – 34:14

we're moving into the

34:14 – 34:16

information age and AI.

34:16 – 34:18

Everyone's talking about AI.

34:18 – 34:19

Let's cover that later.

34:19 – 34:22

As far as this specific area is

34:22 – 34:25

concerned, this can be very

34:25 – 34:27

confusing for many people.

34:27 – 34:30

It's not just farmers and in

34:31 – 34:33

the farming community.

34:33 – 34:35

Most businesses, most

34:35 – 34:36

suffer,

34:36 – 34:38

most businesses will go out of

34:38 – 34:39

business, as I said at the

34:39 – 34:40

start, the vast majority, over

34:40 – 34:43

90 % of startup businesses fail.

34:43 – 34:44

And a lot of that is because

34:44 – 34:45

they're not understanding what

34:45 – 34:48

the consumer demand is, what the

34:48 – 34:49

potential for what they are

34:49 – 34:50

building, whether it's a product

34:50 – 34:52

or service, the same applies to

34:52 – 34:52

farmers.

34:52 – 34:54

This is the way we've always

34:54 – 34:54

done things.

34:55 – 34:57

It's growing and they build it

34:57 – 34:59

and they will come or grow it

34:59 – 35:00

and it will be sold.

35:00 – 35:03

And what you've got in the day

35:03 – 35:04

and age that we're in now is

35:04 – 35:05

more and more farms are

35:05 – 35:06

suffering. You've just got to

35:06 – 35:08

pick up any newspaper or any

35:08 – 35:11

farming online news source and

35:11 – 35:12

you'll see this.

35:13 – 35:14

And a lot of, as you well know,

35:15 – 35:16

as you and I both well know,

35:17 – 35:18

a lot of farms, a lot of the

35:18 – 35:20

farming communities kept alive

35:20 – 35:20

by subsidies.

35:21 – 35:23

How do we move it beyond that?

35:23 – 35:25

How do we give farmers the

35:25 – 35:27

opportunity to, as I say, move

35:27 – 35:28

towards making a profit that

35:28 – 35:31

allows them to enjoy farming

35:31 – 35:33

again and create something of

35:33 – 35:34

real value for themselves, for

35:34 – 35:35

the farmers and the consumers?

35:36 – 35:37

And this is where marketing

35:37 – 35:39

comes in. And I'll reference a

35:39 – 35:40

project. We were talking about

35:40 – 35:43

this just before the podcast.

35:44 – 35:46

The gentleman that I've been in

35:46 – 35:47

conversation with for several

35:47 – 35:48

months now,

35:49 – 35:50

a gentleman by the name of

35:50 – 35:52

Surrender Ready, originates from

35:52 – 35:53

farming stock himself out in

35:53 – 35:54

India. He's creating or in the

35:54 – 35:56

process of building out

35:56 – 35:58

something called 451 Ventures

35:58 – 36:00

Initiative. What's that?

36:00 – 36:02

It's basically a platform that

36:02 – 36:03

helps build and scale

36:03 – 36:04

regenerative agriculture

36:04 – 36:05

companies and projects.

36:06 – 36:08

to it's using tech as a steward

36:08 – 36:10

of living systems you might say

36:10 – 36:11

and partners with our looks.

36:12 – 36:12

We'll be looking to partner with

36:12 – 36:14

farmers and founders and funders

36:14 – 36:15

because we've got to bring the

36:15 – 36:17

investment in as well to turn

36:17 – 36:20

pilots success create successful

36:20 – 36:21

pilots out in the farming

36:21 – 36:23

community looking at these

36:23 – 36:25

different ways of operating into

36:25 – 36:27

investable real world outcomes.

36:28 – 36:29

In order to do that we need a

36:29 – 36:31

coalition. I think probably the

36:31 – 36:32

best way I could describe it is

36:32 – 36:34

a coalition -style platform.

36:34 – 36:37

It pairs simple, farm -tested AI

36:37 – 36:40

measurement with patient

36:40 – 36:42

-regenerative capital, which is

36:42 – 36:43

somewhat of a bit of a,

36:44 – 36:45

in short, supply, as we all

36:45 – 36:46

know, as far as investment and

36:46 – 36:48

finance is concerned, but also

36:48 – 36:50

ties into that retailer -led

36:50 – 36:51

market pull.

36:52 – 36:54

If you pull those dynamics

36:54 – 36:55

together, you've got an

36:55 – 36:57

opportunity to accelerate

36:57 – 36:58

towards becoming profitable,

36:58 – 36:59

outcomes verified,

37:01 – 37:02

regenerative farming,

37:02 – 37:03

particularly in the specialty

37:03 – 37:04

crops and the fresh produce

37:04 – 37:05

area.

37:05 – 37:07

This doesn't necessarily apply

37:07 – 37:08

across all farming.

37:08 – 37:09

What I'm talking about here

37:09 – 37:11

specifically is the opportunity

37:11 – 37:13

within specialty crops and fresh

37:13 – 37:13

produce.

37:14 – 37:16

So these type of initiatives are

37:16 – 37:17

out there. I've mentioned Agland

37:17 – 37:18

investment.

37:18 – 37:21

There's a growing community of

37:21 – 37:24

regenerative investment coming

37:24 – 37:26

in now that isn't just looking

37:26 – 37:27

at a quick book.

37:27 – 37:29

How do we turn this into profit

37:29 – 37:31

and exit quickly so that we

37:31 – 37:32

maximize our profitability?

37:32 – 37:34

It's almost like what you might

37:34 – 37:36

call a philanthropreneur.

37:36 – 37:38

They're entrepreneurial venture

37:38 – 37:41

investors who are looking to do

37:41 – 37:43

good. And they're also looking

37:43 – 37:45

to find farmers who are open to

37:45 – 37:46

change.

37:47 – 37:49

We have to make, there has to be

37:49 – 37:50

change. There has to be an

37:50 – 37:52

evolution in the way that we're

37:52 – 37:52

doing things.

37:53 – 37:53

Otherwise,

37:53 – 37:54

we'll always have what we've

37:54 – 37:55

always got.

37:56 – 37:57

So this is an opportunity to

37:57 – 38:01

come together collaboratively

38:01 – 38:03

in a cooperative style or a

38:03 – 38:04

coalition style, whatever

38:04 – 38:06

terminology you feel comfortable

38:06 – 38:09

with, and then utilize people

38:09 – 38:10

who've got different strengths

38:10 – 38:12

and abilities, and then pull

38:12 – 38:15

that together for commonality of

38:15 – 38:16

purpose and benefit.

38:20 – 38:21

All right. I'd like to,

38:21 – 38:24

I think there's going to be some

38:24 – 38:26

meat here for further digestion

38:26 – 38:28

and further conversation as this

38:28 – 38:29

conversation goes along and in

38:29 – 38:30

future conversations as well.

38:31 – 38:32

But I'd like to shift topics a

38:32 – 38:34

bit and several times in the

38:34 – 38:35

course of the conversation,

38:35 – 38:36

you've mentioned ag tech.

38:36 – 38:37

And when we look at,

38:37 – 38:38

and I think this is something

38:38 – 38:41

that for us as growers, many of

38:41 – 38:42

us can appreciate,

38:42 – 38:45

is we look at the ag tech space

38:45 – 38:47

and ag tech is a

38:47 – 38:48

mass cemetery.

38:49 – 38:51

It is a graveyard of enterprises

38:51 – 38:52

that

38:52 – 38:55

had a certain degree of hubris

38:55 – 38:57

and thought they understood what

38:57 – 38:58

the customer was looking for

38:58 – 39:00

without really understanding the

39:00 – 39:01

customer, without really

39:01 – 39:02

understanding growers.

39:02 – 39:03

When I look at the number of

39:03 – 39:05

these ag tech companies

39:05 – 39:09

that don't have limited

39:09 – 39:10

interaction with growers, they

39:10 – 39:12

don't have a grower on an

39:12 – 39:14

advisory board or somehow

39:14 – 39:15

involved in their organization,

39:17 – 39:19

we see

39:19 – 39:21

just a great deal of

39:21 – 39:22

enterprises,

39:22 – 39:23

a large proportion of

39:23 – 39:24

enterprises and some very good

39:24 – 39:25

ideas that

39:26 – 39:27

in essence were stillborn

39:27 – 39:29

because of not closely enough

39:29 – 39:30

understanding what

39:31 – 39:32

their customer needed.

39:33 – 39:34

Where do you see the analogs

39:34 – 39:35

between that type of

39:35 – 39:36

environment,

39:37 – 39:39

those types of development and

39:39 – 39:41

growers and

39:41 – 39:42

the way that growers are

39:42 – 39:43

pursuing marketing?

39:43 – 39:44

That's one question.

39:44 – 39:46

And the second question is,

39:46 – 39:47

you have the benefit of an

39:47 – 39:49

outside perspective that's been

39:49 – 39:50

developed more recently.

39:50 – 39:51

What do you see

39:52 – 39:53

happening in the future of the

39:53 – 39:54

ag tech space over the course of

39:54 – 39:55

the next half a dozen years?

39:58 – 39:59

Very pertinent question.

40:00 – 40:01

And it's something which has got

40:01 – 40:03

people at a much higher level

40:03 – 40:05

than me within ag tech or deeper

40:05 – 40:07

knowledge of ag tech scratching

40:07 – 40:10

their heads for the very reasons

40:10 – 40:10

that you state.

40:11 – 40:12

And I'll cover those as I

40:12 – 40:14

express what I'm about to say.

40:14 – 40:16

The other reason is the

40:16 – 40:17

difficulty of getting hold of

40:17 – 40:19

finance and investment, because

40:19 – 40:21

it takes a lot of money to bring

40:21 – 40:23

these solutions to the table and

40:23 – 40:25

then to implement them,

40:25 – 40:27

to build them, implement them,

40:27 – 40:28

and then engage with, in this

40:28 – 40:30

case, we're talking ag tech,

40:30 – 40:32

with these farm operations,

40:32 – 40:36

whether you're a big corporation

40:36 – 40:38

or a medium, small -sized farm.

40:38 – 40:40

Now, that having been said,

40:40 – 40:42

we've gone through, I mentioned

40:42 – 40:43

the industrial revolution.

40:43 – 40:45

I'm from a town called Oldham in

40:45 – 40:46

the northwest of England.

40:46 – 40:48

What's the relevance of that?

40:48 – 40:49

Well, it's the birth, the

40:49 – 40:50

northwest of England was the

40:50 – 40:52

birthplace of the industrial

40:52 – 40:52

revolution.

40:53 – 40:54

It's quite a while back now,

40:55 – 40:56

but

40:56 – 40:58

the northwest of England, which

40:58 – 41:00

was that birthplace, it was all

41:00 – 41:01

about innovation and it was

41:01 – 41:03

allied to investment.

41:03 – 41:05

You have to have the two to make

41:05 – 41:06

it come to the four.

41:06 – 41:09

that created a lot of new

41:09 – 41:12

systems, new machines that

41:12 – 41:14

revolutionized the planet as we

41:14 – 41:16

know it. Some of the unintended

41:16 – 41:17

consequences of that weren't

41:17 – 41:19

necessarily beneficial, but it

41:19 – 41:20

did take the

41:21 – 41:23

the way that we operated in a

41:23 – 41:25

business perspective in a

41:25 – 41:27

completely different direction.

41:27 – 41:29

The complacency that came in

41:29 – 41:30

behind that and the lack of

41:30 – 41:32

innovation led to the northwest

41:32 – 41:33

of England now being an

41:33 – 41:34

industrial wasteland.

41:35 – 41:37

So again, we're sort of looking

41:37 – 41:38

at that from an agricultural

41:38 – 41:39

perspective now,

41:39 – 41:40

is that this is the way we've

41:40 – 41:41

always done things.

41:41 – 41:43

The ones that are going to

41:43 – 41:45

survive and prosper will have to

41:45 – 41:48

move into this innovation phase

41:48 – 41:50

again. And I refer to this a

41:50 – 41:51

lot, Jonny. You've heard me say

41:51 – 41:52

this is the

41:52 – 41:54

future of farming.

41:54 – 41:56

Eagle will soar on two wings.

41:57 – 42:00

This is my firm belief and feel

42:00 – 42:01

behind this. One is regenerative

42:01 – 42:02

agriculture. One wing is

42:02 – 42:04

regenerative agriculture,

42:04 – 42:05

regenerative organic.

42:06 – 42:08

And the other one is ag tech and

42:08 – 42:09

AI.

42:09 – 42:11

And by ag tech, we're talking

42:11 – 42:12

about precision.

42:12 – 42:13

Ag tech is known as precision

42:13 – 42:14

agriculture.

42:14 – 42:16

And biologicals.

42:16 – 42:17

So without wishing to go into

42:17 – 42:18

too much detail there, anything

42:18 – 42:20

that looks like an autonomous

42:20 – 42:21

vehicle, robotics,

42:22 – 42:24

harvesters, pickers, and

42:26 – 42:28

sprayers of all different

42:28 – 42:29

dimensions. We've got drones

42:29 – 42:30

coming in now, you've got

42:30 – 42:31

satellites, there's a whole

42:31 – 42:34

smorgasbord of innovation that's

42:34 – 42:35

come into,

42:35 – 42:36

or has been presented into

42:36 – 42:38

agriculture over the last decade

42:38 – 42:40

and that's speeding up as

42:40 – 42:41

technology increases,

42:41 – 42:43

particularly now that they all

42:43 – 42:44

see,

42:44 – 42:47

you could say the old pervasive

42:47 – 42:49

AI has come in.

42:49 – 42:51

What we've seen, and I speak a

42:51 – 42:53

lot with people who are a lot

42:53 – 42:55

more tied into this out in the

42:55 – 42:57

West. There's an organization

42:57 – 42:58

called Western Growers

42:58 – 42:59

Association.

42:59 – 43:00

They've got an innovation

43:00 – 43:01

division.

43:01 – 43:02

And what they've explained to

43:02 – 43:03

me, and I've seen this through

43:03 – 43:05

my own eyes and research now, is

43:05 – 43:07

that the investment that was

43:07 – 43:09

fueling that kind of fell off a

43:09 – 43:11

cliff in 2022.

43:11 – 43:13

It was a huge upsurge in

43:13 – 43:14

investment because people, the

43:14 – 43:16

VCs, particularly the PEs, saw a

43:16 – 43:19

huge opportunity to make money

43:19 – 43:20

in that specific area.

43:20 – 43:22

However, it's been a lot more

43:22 – 43:24

difficult than people initially

43:24 – 43:26

assumed, as they have a tendency

43:26 – 43:27

to do.

43:27 – 43:29

And as AI has come to the fore,

43:29 – 43:30

it sucked a lot of the

43:30 – 43:32

investment globally out of many

43:32 – 43:34

areas. And one of those has been

43:34 – 43:34

ag tech.

43:35 – 43:37

One of the key things you

43:37 – 43:39

touched on this for that moving

43:39 – 43:40

forward, it has to be, again,

43:40 – 43:41

I'm very much into

43:41 – 43:43

collaborations and coalitions,

43:43 – 43:44

cooperatives.

43:45 – 43:46

The farmers,

43:46 – 43:48

if we are to move forward into

43:48 – 43:50

this new bright world of AI and

43:50 – 43:52

ag tech need to be part of the

43:52 – 43:53

conversation.

43:54 – 43:55

They can't be force fed into

43:55 – 43:56

this.

43:56 – 43:58

We're all change resistant

43:58 – 43:59

creatures individually.

43:59 – 44:02

We are as a species with farming

44:02 – 44:03

operations. They're multi

44:03 – 44:04

generational.

44:05 – 44:06

So the certain things that

44:06 – 44:07

they've been doing on that farm

44:07 – 44:08

that they'll have been doing for

44:08 – 44:10

decades and generations

44:10 – 44:12

you've got to therefore go in

44:12 – 44:13

and explain to them the

44:13 – 44:14

benefits. It's like we're

44:14 – 44:15

talking about with marketing and

44:15 – 44:16

business development.

44:16 – 44:17

What are the benefits to that

44:17 – 44:18

farmer and to that farm

44:18 – 44:19

operation?

44:19 – 44:20

How can that improve their

44:20 – 44:21

profitability?

44:21 – 44:23

How can it reduce the manpower

44:23 – 44:26

needs? How can it reduce the

44:26 – 44:27

costs of their operation?

44:28 – 44:29

These things are not fully

44:29 – 44:30

explained. You're not going to

44:30 – 44:31

get a farmer buy into that.

44:32 – 44:33

And then it needs to be this

44:33 – 44:34

collaborative approach of how

44:34 – 44:36

you build these two things out.

44:37 – 44:38

Well, I think there's also,

44:39 – 44:42

in many cases in the ag tech

44:42 – 44:44

community, there has been a

44:44 – 44:45

fundamental failure to

44:45 – 44:47

understand how complex and how

44:47 – 44:48

multi -dimensional

44:49 – 44:52

a farming operation really is

44:52 – 44:53

and what is really required to

44:53 – 44:54

implement something

44:54 – 44:55

successfully.

44:57 – 45:00

just from an efficiency and a

45:00 – 45:01

timing perspective and the

45:01 – 45:03

narrow windows of opportunity,

45:03 – 45:04

of timing, expediency.

45:05 – 45:08

Agriculture is perceived as

45:08 – 45:11

slow adopters of technology and

45:12 – 45:13

has been historically.

45:14 – 45:16

And I think the very reasonable

45:16 – 45:17

and the very good argument for

45:17 – 45:19

that is because they've

45:19 – 45:20

historically been such a small

45:20 – 45:21

market segment

45:22 – 45:25

that the various

45:25 – 45:25

technologies,

45:25 – 45:27

software solutions, et cetera,

45:27 – 45:28

that were developed for them

45:29 – 45:30

were not a good fit.

45:30 – 45:32

They were developed, I mean,

45:33 – 45:33

we don't,

45:34 – 45:35

outside of agriculture,

45:36 – 45:38

I think if you ask the average

45:38 – 45:41

software engineer which

45:41 – 45:43

business is the most difficult

45:43 – 45:46

to develop an ERP

45:46 – 45:47

system for,

45:47 – 45:49

a farm growing produce or a

45:49 – 45:51

furniture manufacturing facility

45:51 – 45:52

with 1 ,500 employees,

45:53 – 45:54

they would say the furniture

45:54 – 45:55

facility is probably the most

45:55 – 45:55

difficult.

45:55 – 45:56

But in fact, it's the farming

45:56 – 45:59

operation where there are more

45:59 – 45:59

moving parts

46:00 – 46:02

more multidimensionality, more

46:02 – 46:04

variables in play than

46:04 – 46:06

there are. with a large complex

46:06 – 46:07

manufacturing facility one is

46:07 – 46:09

perceived to be more complex but

46:09 – 46:10

the other is an actual fact a

46:10 – 46:11

lot more complex.

46:12 – 46:13

46:13 – 46:15

there's there's multiple

46:15 – 46:16

dimensions there but

46:16 – 46:18

you mentioned the

46:19 – 46:21

all pervasive AI was the phrase

46:21 – 46:21

that you used

46:22 – 46:23

and in

46:24 – 46:26

the conversations that you and i

46:26 – 46:28

have had over the last several

46:28 – 46:29

years as we've learned to know

46:29 – 46:30

each other you have.

46:30 – 46:31

I think of all the people that

46:31 – 46:33

I've interacted with, you are on

46:33 – 46:35

a short list of probably the top

46:35 – 46:37

dozen people who've used AI

46:37 – 46:39

more intensely than

46:40 – 46:42

most people have.

46:42 – 46:43

You're not an average AI user.

46:44 – 46:45

And so I'd like to ask you the

46:45 – 46:45

question,

46:45 – 46:47

because there are many people in

46:47 – 46:50

the farming community who

46:50 – 46:52

they don't get it.

46:52 – 46:53

They don't get what the hype is

46:53 – 46:54

all about.

46:55 – 46:56

And I think this is true not

46:56 – 46:57

just in farming community, but

46:57 – 46:58

of consumers in general.

46:59 – 47:01

They use one of these large

47:01 – 47:03

engines like chachi pt or gemini

47:03 – 47:05

or grock and they ask it a

47:05 – 47:06

couple of questions and

47:07 – 47:08

it's it's a cool tool

47:09 – 47:10

it produces some interesting

47:10 – 47:12

results for them but they don't

47:12 – 47:15

really understand what they

47:15 – 47:17

haven't observed and experience

47:17 – 47:19

the value that people are

47:19 – 47:21

talking about so i'd like to get

47:21 – 47:23

your perspective how how are you

47:23 – 47:25

using ai and how are you getting

47:25 – 47:27

ai to work for you.

47:29 – 47:32

OK, this is the key point of the

47:32 – 47:33

moment, as I said, the

47:33 – 47:35

pervasiveness

47:35 – 47:37

of AI in all aspects of our

47:37 – 47:39

society now and culture.

47:40 – 47:41

And the confusion, there's a lot

47:41 – 47:42

of excitement around it, but

47:42 – 47:44

there's a lot of confusion and

47:44 – 47:45

fear behind it.

47:45 – 47:47

As far as farming is concerned,

47:47 – 47:48

as far as agriculture is

47:48 – 47:50

concerned, I'm unequivocal about

47:50 – 47:54

this. I see AI as a farm ally, a

47:54 – 47:56

very valuable farm ally.

47:56 – 47:59

If it's applied and utilized and

47:59 – 48:00

therefore understood

48:00 – 48:02

and trained primarily

48:03 – 48:04

first.

48:05 – 48:07

You and I have had this

48:07 – 48:08

conversation over the years.

48:08 – 48:10

I've had the conversation with

48:10 – 48:11

Gabe and Understanding Ag and

48:11 – 48:13

many other suppliers of

48:13 – 48:16

agronomic support for farmers in

48:16 – 48:17

the field.

48:17 – 48:19

There's what I call a bandwidth

48:19 – 48:21

bottleneck in agronomy,

48:22 – 48:22

and it's real.

48:23 – 48:25

There's only so many highly

48:25 – 48:28

qualified agronomists,

48:28 – 48:30

certainly from a regenerative

48:30 – 48:32

and organic perspective,

48:32 – 48:35

who are trained and educated and

48:35 – 48:37

have that skill set.

48:37 – 48:38

It's an art and as with

48:38 – 48:39

everything in life, particularly

48:39 – 48:41

farming, it's both a science and

48:41 – 48:42

an art.

48:42 – 48:45

There are not that many people

48:45 – 48:48

out there who can tap into the

48:48 – 48:51

demand that's real and needs

48:51 – 48:52

to be satisfied.

48:52 – 48:54

So how do we overcome that?

48:54 – 48:55

Well,

48:55 – 48:57

you very astutely and I remember

48:57 – 48:58

this conversation with you two

48:58 – 48:59

years ago,

48:59 – 49:01

came up with feel like it wasn't

49:01 – 49:03

called feel like feel like at

49:03 – 49:04

the time you created something

49:04 – 49:06

which is for one of a better

49:06 – 49:07

phrase agronomic AI.

49:08 – 49:11

And I see that as being highly

49:11 – 49:12

valuable and useful because it

49:12 – 49:14

compresses it has the potential

49:14 – 49:16

to compress decades of

49:16 – 49:17

regenerative knowledge.

49:17 – 49:19

that all the knowledge, not just

49:19 – 49:21

that John Kent puts into this or

49:21 – 49:23

a Gabe Brown or a Keith Burns,

49:23 – 49:25

we could, I could quote all the

49:25 – 49:26

Olympian gods of the

49:26 – 49:27

regenerative movement.

49:28 – 49:29

What would it be like if we

49:29 – 49:31

could download the knowledge,

49:31 – 49:33

the experience,

49:33 – 49:36

the foresight into some form of

49:38 – 49:40

machine that could compress that

49:40 – 49:42

down and make that available,

49:42 – 49:44

readily available in different

49:44 – 49:46

formats under different contexts

49:46 – 49:47

for farm operators.

49:48 – 49:50

How valuable and useful would

49:50 – 49:50

that be?

49:50 – 49:53

But it needs to be compressed

49:53 – 49:54

into

49:55 – 49:56

that's actionable.

49:57 – 49:58

first principle answers.

49:58 – 50:00

So, what to check, why it

50:00 – 50:01

matters, what's the next best

50:01 – 50:03

step, if it can give that level

50:03 – 50:04

of guidance.

50:04 – 50:06

So, use cases that I see

50:06 – 50:09

practical for that I've used

50:09 – 50:11

that within Union Grove Farm,

50:11 – 50:12

I've had this conversation

50:12 – 50:14

growingly with other farmers

50:14 – 50:15

now, we've got an interest

50:15 – 50:16

behind it, but have been

50:16 – 50:17

confused by it, don't know how

50:17 – 50:18

to best apply it.

50:19 – 50:20

You could do something like

50:20 – 50:22

triage in a leaf symptom before

50:22 – 50:24

it becomes a spray and pray

50:24 – 50:25

week.

50:25 – 50:26

tightening irrigation,

50:26 – 50:29

nutrition decisions on what to

50:29 – 50:31

spray and how to spray it, when

50:31 – 50:32

to spray it,

50:32 – 50:34

building up a written reasoning

50:34 – 50:35

trail that you can review with

50:35 – 50:36

your agronomist.

50:36 – 50:37

So we're not replacing

50:37 – 50:40

agronomists. You can't ever beat

50:40 – 50:42

a shovel in the ground, a shovel

50:42 – 50:44

in the soil. You can't beat that

50:44 – 50:46

boots on the ground approach to

50:46 – 50:47

farming. That's never going to

50:47 – 50:48

go away.

50:48 – 50:50

But as I see, it's not replacing

50:50 – 50:52

judgment. It's the potential to

50:52 – 50:55

speed and augment good judgment.

50:56 – 50:57

But like all tools,

50:57 – 51:00

systems, and processes, as we've

51:00 – 51:01

discussed, they need to be

51:01 – 51:02

learned and understood before

51:02 – 51:03

they're optimally applied.

51:04 – 51:06

So that's where I see AI coming

51:06 – 51:09

to the fore now, is learning it

51:09 – 51:11

and being taught and trained on

51:11 – 51:12

it, like you would if you were

51:12 – 51:14

given, first time you were given

51:14 – 51:15

a tractor, first time you were

51:15 – 51:18

given a satellite link

51:18 – 51:19

tractor.

51:20 – 51:22

You had to be trained by that.

51:22 – 51:25

You didn't just jump in the cab

51:25 – 51:26

and drive it. The same applies

51:26 – 51:27

to AI.

51:28 – 51:29

Yes, you can jump on and use

51:29 – 51:31

chat and GTP or Google or

51:31 – 51:32

whichever one your preference

51:32 – 51:34

is. But if you really want to

51:34 – 51:36

optimize it, you need to have an

51:36 – 51:37

understanding of what the system

51:37 – 51:39

is and then how it applies to

51:39 – 51:40

you. The six principles,

51:41 – 51:42

for those of us who know

51:42 – 51:43

regenerative agriculture,

51:44 – 51:45

there are six principles within

51:45 – 51:47

that. The number one primary

51:47 – 51:48

principle, which is of the most

51:48 – 51:50

importance, is content.

51:50 – 51:51

So what's the context of your

51:51 – 51:53

farm? What are you growing?

51:53 – 51:54

Where are you growing it?

51:54 – 51:55

How are you growing it?

51:55 – 51:57

Understand those, and then

51:57 – 51:58

understand how you can take that

51:58 – 52:01

context and plug that into AI to

52:01 – 52:03

be an ally to what you're

52:03 – 52:04

seeking to achieve.

52:05 – 52:07

It will take time, the more time

52:07 – 52:09

and practice you can put into

52:09 – 52:10

this and certainly working with

52:10 – 52:13

people like AEA and

52:13 – 52:15

yourself with field art, the

52:15 – 52:16

more benefit we're going to see

52:16 – 52:17

this coming out and then we need

52:17 – 52:18

to create a success stories.

52:19 – 52:20

It's a show and tell.

52:21 – 52:22

People are going to be dubious

52:22 – 52:23

initially. They're going to be

52:23 – 52:24

confused by it.

52:24 – 52:25

So if we can show them successes

52:25 – 52:27

that have been driven by that,

52:27 – 52:28

and I'm working with a number of

52:28 – 52:29

farms at the moment utilizing

52:29 – 52:31

AI, and it surprised them what

52:31 – 52:32

it delivers.

52:33 – 52:34

And then you take that

52:34 – 52:35

information, and as you do with

52:35 – 52:37

any good farming operation, you

52:37 – 52:38

trial it.

52:38 – 52:40

You go out there and you test

52:40 – 52:43

pilot it and do pilot plots and

52:43 – 52:45

trial it and see how it delivers

52:45 – 52:47

the information into actionable

52:47 – 52:48

insights and deliverable

52:48 – 52:49

actions.

52:49 – 52:51

So can you give us some

52:51 – 52:51

examples?

52:52 – 52:54

Can you give us examples of

52:54 – 52:56

how you are?

52:57 – 52:59

You're what I would consider a

52:59 – 53:00

power user.

53:00 – 53:02

How are you training AI?

53:02 – 53:04

And then what are the results

53:04 – 53:05

and what are the outcomes of

53:05 – 53:06

that

53:07 – 53:10

that are different from an

53:10 – 53:11

untrained AI, let's say?

53:15 – 53:16

Well, as I said earlier, it

53:16 – 53:17

depends what you're doing.

53:17 – 53:20

One of the primary goals for the

53:20 – 53:22

farm operation that I've been

53:24 – 53:25

operational director of over the

53:25 – 53:26

last seven years.

53:26 – 53:28

We referenced it at the start as

53:28 – 53:29

Union Grove Farm.

53:29 – 53:30

We are growing,

53:31 – 53:32

are in the process of growing.

53:32 – 53:34

We're about 100 acres now.

53:34 – 53:35

We're aiming, aspiring to be 1

53:35 – 53:36

,000 acres.

53:38 – 53:40

This ties in with marketing.

53:40 – 53:41

It ties in with business

53:41 – 53:42

development. It ties in with AI.

53:43 – 53:45

What are we seeking to achieve?

53:45 – 53:46

We're seeking to become the

53:46 – 53:48

biggest and best and most

53:48 – 53:50

regenerative health -focused

53:50 – 53:52

table grape operator, not just

53:52 – 53:53

on the East Coast, which is a

53:53 – 53:55

little bit of an outlier in

53:55 – 53:56

itself.

53:56 – 54:00

95 % to 98 % of the table

54:00 – 54:01

grapes that are grown in this

54:01 – 54:02

country, not wine,

54:02 – 54:04

table grapes that you buy in a

54:04 – 54:06

retailer or in a store, are

54:06 – 54:06

grown in California,

54:07 – 54:08

probably at the Central Valley.

54:09 – 54:12

We are looking to become the

54:12 – 54:13

East Coast. So the South Face

54:13 – 54:15

and then the East Coast biggest

54:15 – 54:17

deliverer of table grapes.

54:17 – 54:19

There's a whole plethora of

54:19 – 54:20

benefits behind that.

54:20 – 54:21

What are the prime.

54:21 – 54:24

What was the primary marketable

54:24 – 54:26

part of what we're seeking to

54:26 – 54:28

achieve with our fresh fruit and

54:28 – 54:30

freeze dried crops.

54:31 – 54:32

health and taste.

54:32 – 54:36

So AI has shown us ways how we

54:36 – 54:37

can plug in.

54:37 – 54:38

We're still doing the analytics.

54:39 – 54:40

You still got to do your soul

54:40 – 54:43

tests. We still do SAP tests and

54:43 – 54:45

we put that into the system that

54:45 – 54:47

gives us real world finger on

54:47 – 54:48

the pulse data.

54:49 – 54:51

But the difference between

54:51 – 54:53

having that data and either

54:53 – 54:54

handballing it or going through

54:54 – 54:55

the systems that you've got to

54:55 – 54:57

send off and you might wait

54:57 – 54:58

weeks for is you can plug that

54:58 – 54:59

in directly.

55:00 – 55:01

So that suddenly becomes an

55:01 – 55:03

optimal tool for how we can

55:03 – 55:04

optimize bricks.

55:05 – 55:06

So we want the highest bricks

55:06 – 55:07

possible, but we're also looking

55:07 – 55:09

at nutrient density and

55:09 – 55:10

phytonutrients, particularly

55:10 – 55:12

with our table grapes is

55:12 – 55:14

something called polyphenolics.

55:14 – 55:16

That's what gives it its health

55:16 – 55:16

kick.

55:16 – 55:19

If we can utilize AI to improve

55:19 – 55:21

and increase that, then suddenly

55:21 – 55:22

we've got something which is of

55:22 – 55:23

high value.

55:24 – 55:25

And that's an area that we're

55:25 – 55:26

seeking to move into in the next

55:26 – 55:28

few months and years ahead.

55:31 – 55:31

You

55:31 – 55:33

mentioned the challenges and one

55:33 – 55:35

of the original inspirations for

55:35 – 55:37

us in developing FieldLark was

55:37 – 55:39

just this understanding that in

55:39 – 55:41

order to be a very good

55:41 – 55:43

agronomist, particularly a

55:43 – 55:44

regenerative agriculture

55:44 – 55:45

agronomist, requires such a

55:46 – 55:49

depth and breadth of knowledge.

55:49 – 55:50

And there is so much information

55:50 – 55:51

out there that is accessible

55:51 – 55:52

today,

55:52 – 55:54

much more accessible with AI

55:54 – 55:55

than it has been previously.

55:58 – 56:00

And it just it takes so much

56:00 – 56:02

time to become a good

56:02 – 56:04

regenerative agriculture

56:04 – 56:05

agronomist because you've taken

56:05 – 56:06

away

56:06 – 56:08

so many or you're seeking to

56:08 – 56:09

remove so many of the easy

56:09 – 56:10

buttons, the easy buttons of

56:10 – 56:12

pesticides and fungicides and so

56:12 – 56:13

forth.

56:13 – 56:15

And so the depth of knowledge

56:15 – 56:17

required to take a proactive

56:17 – 56:19

preventative approach is much

56:19 – 56:20

deeper

56:20 – 56:23

than to take a reactive

56:23 – 56:24

approach.

56:24 – 56:25

And so there's been this

56:26 – 56:27

significant shortage.

56:28 – 56:30

It's existed for the last 10

56:30 – 56:31

years and it's just there's a

56:31 – 56:32

growing shortage of

56:32 – 56:34

people who are qualified,

56:35 – 56:36

trusted technical advisors who

56:36 – 56:38

have the depth and the quality

56:38 – 56:39

of knowledge and information to

56:40 – 56:41

bring this forward.

56:41 – 56:41

And so

56:41 – 56:43

this was one of the inspirations

56:43 – 56:44

for the development of FieldLark

56:45 – 56:47

is to make that information

56:48 – 56:51

accessible to anyone and to kind

56:51 – 56:53

of streamline the

56:53 – 56:55

learning experience, the

56:55 – 56:57

learning journey for agronomists

56:57 – 57:00

and for farmers who want to go

57:00 – 57:01

down a different pathway and to

57:01 – 57:02

encourage

57:03 – 57:04

because I'm completely with you

57:04 – 57:05

that

57:05 – 57:07

we can never, nor should we seek

57:07 – 57:09

to replace people in the field.

57:10 – 57:10

Instead,

57:11 – 57:13

our goal should be to help all

57:13 – 57:14

those people in the field be

57:14 – 57:16

better, ask better questions, be

57:16 – 57:16

more observant.

57:18 – 57:20

That's really the inspiration

57:20 – 57:21

where I think FieldArk is going

57:21 – 57:23

to shine. So when I look at that

57:23 – 57:24

from a

57:24 – 57:26

practical application

57:26 – 57:27

perspective,

57:28 – 57:29

the

57:29 – 57:32

opportunity is here

57:33 – 57:34

57:35 – 57:36

streamline

57:37 – 57:40

the understanding of which modes

57:40 – 57:41

of action, which mechanisms,

57:42 – 57:43

which products,

57:43 – 57:46

which ingredients can shift the

57:46 – 57:48

needle the most dramatically in

57:48 – 57:51

a given context and in a given

57:51 – 57:52

situation.

57:52 – 57:53

I'd love to get your

57:53 – 57:53

perspective.

57:54 – 57:54

You've used,

57:55 – 57:57

you've been a power user of

57:57 – 57:58

different,

57:58 – 58:00

I believe, different AIs.

58:01 – 58:02

What are the ones that you have

58:02 – 58:03

found

58:03 – 58:06

to offer the most valuable,

58:07 – 58:09

to create the most value for you

58:09 – 58:11

as a farm manager, looking at

58:11 – 58:13

the agronomy sides, and how have

58:13 – 58:14

you found those to compare to

58:14 – 58:15

field work?

58:19 – 58:20

All the main ones,

58:20 – 58:22

the key ones that people talk

58:22 – 58:24

about out in the marketplace,

58:24 – 58:25

I've tried.

58:25 – 58:26

I could run through them, as you

58:26 – 58:28

said, Google, Grok,

58:30 – 58:33

ChatGTP. ChatGTP has stood out

58:33 – 58:34

for me so far.

58:34 – 58:36

What I've learned, John, and

58:36 – 58:38

this is the same for FieldLark

58:38 – 58:39

as I've got to know it better,

58:40 – 58:41

58:41 – 58:44

as is the old adage, gigo,

58:44 – 58:46

garbage in, garbage out.

58:46 – 58:48

It's all dependent on the

58:48 – 58:51

quality of the information that

58:51 – 58:51

you feed in.

58:52 – 58:54

And then the other critical part

58:54 – 58:55

of this, and if you do a little

58:55 – 58:57

bit of research on AI and how to

58:57 – 58:58

get the best out of it, it's the

58:58 – 58:59

quality of the prompt.

59:00 – 59:01

It's the quality of the question

59:01 – 59:04

that you put into that AI.

59:04 – 59:05

So if you ask it a short

59:05 – 59:07

question, you're going to get a

59:07 – 59:09

relatively short,

59:09 – 59:10

undetailed,

59:11 – 59:12

less specific response.

59:13 – 59:15

When I interact with AI,

59:16 – 59:17

and again, I'll reference chat

59:17 – 59:19

GP50,

59:20 – 59:22

and it's worth paying the extra

59:22 – 59:22

for.

59:22 – 59:24

pay $30 a month for the pro

59:24 – 59:25

version,

59:25 – 59:27

for the pay version in the same

59:27 – 59:29

way that we pay for feel like as

59:29 – 59:30

well.

59:30 – 59:32

is the quality of the answers

59:32 – 59:33

that we get from that is

59:33 – 59:35

specific to the higher level

59:35 – 59:37

detail that we put into it.

59:37 – 59:39

So that's the absolute critical

59:39 – 59:40

thing that I would say to

59:40 – 59:42

anybody out there is take the

59:42 – 59:43

time and trouble and effort to

59:43 – 59:45

put together almost like a

59:45 – 59:46

thesis of what it is you're

59:46 – 59:47

seeking to achieve.

59:47 – 59:49

Over time, what happens, and I'm

59:49 – 59:50

talking about a year, as you

59:50 – 59:52

say, I'm a relatively heavy

59:52 – 59:53

user.

59:53 – 59:56

That system gets to know you and

59:56 – 59:57

gets to know your operation.

59:58 – 1:00:00

So, it's got a memory far better

1:00:00 – 1:00:01

than I have.

1:00:02 – 1:00:03

I can remember a lot.

1:00:03 – 1:00:04

If I don't write it down, if I

1:00:04 – 1:00:05

don't reference it, then it's

1:00:05 – 1:00:07

not there. With AI over time,

1:00:07 – 1:00:09

whether it's weeks or months or

1:00:09 – 1:00:11

years, it remembers everything

1:00:11 – 1:00:12

and it can reference that back.

1:00:13 – 1:00:15

So, the beautiful thing with

1:00:15 – 1:00:16

this is, it's a bit like having

1:00:16 – 1:00:18

an agronomist. If I paid, as we

1:00:18 – 1:00:20

have done, to have, as I say,

1:00:21 – 1:00:22

somebody from your organisation

1:00:22 – 1:00:24

or understanding outcome into

1:00:24 – 1:00:25

guide us in a specific area of

1:00:25 – 1:00:26

need,

1:00:26 – 1:00:29

the quality of the advice and

1:00:29 – 1:00:30

guidance is going to be much

1:00:30 – 1:00:32

higher when I've had a

1:00:32 – 1:00:33

relationship with somebody over

1:00:33 – 1:00:35

several months and several years

1:00:35 – 1:00:36

than it is to just bring someone

1:00:36 – 1:00:38

in from the get -go.

1:00:38 – 1:00:40

And that's the key to whichever

1:00:40 – 1:00:42

system that you choose, that is

1:00:42 – 1:00:43

the absolute key to get the best

1:00:43 – 1:00:45

value out of AI.

1:00:46 – 1:00:48

That level of detail and that

1:00:48 – 1:00:49

level of building an experience

1:00:49 – 1:00:51

and a relationship with it.

1:00:52 – 1:00:53

Yeah.

1:00:54 – 1:00:54

Thank you, Martin.

1:00:54 – 1:00:56

I think this has been my

1:00:56 – 1:00:57

experience as well as I've

1:00:57 – 1:00:58

played around with it.

1:01:00 – 1:01:00

1:01:02 – 1:01:03

initially, as you're learning

1:01:03 – 1:01:04

about it, as you're playing

1:01:04 – 1:01:05

around, you discover, you start

1:01:05 – 1:01:07

with prompts that are a sentence

1:01:07 – 1:01:09

or a couple sentences long, and

1:01:09 – 1:01:10

then they go to a paragraph, and

1:01:10 – 1:01:12

then they go to 5 paragraphs,

1:01:12 – 1:01:13

and then to 10.

1:01:13 – 1:01:14

And the reality is that

1:01:15 – 1:01:18

as as you give it more

1:01:18 – 1:01:20

information and give it more

1:01:20 – 1:01:21

context and ask more detailed

1:01:21 – 1:01:22

questions,

1:01:22 – 1:01:24

the quality of the outputs just

1:01:24 – 1:01:26

and. you also, the interesting

1:01:26 – 1:01:27

thing is that in the way that it

1:01:27 – 1:01:31

responds is if you ask a

1:01:31 – 1:01:33

couple sentence question,

1:01:33 – 1:01:34

you get a couple paragraph

1:01:34 – 1:01:35

answer.

1:01:35 – 1:01:37

If you ask a five paragraph

1:01:37 – 1:01:38

question, you give it lots of

1:01:38 – 1:01:39

context,

1:01:39 – 1:01:40

you get

1:01:40 – 1:01:42

a 10 page response.

1:01:42 – 1:01:44

And I'm just generalizing here,

1:01:44 – 1:01:45

of course, but the detail of the

1:01:45 – 1:01:46

response that you get back is in

1:01:46 – 1:01:47

direct proportion to the detail

1:01:47 – 1:01:49

of context you provide.

1:01:51 – 1:01:52

Absolutely, absolutely.

1:01:52 – 1:01:53

And this is, again,

1:01:54 – 1:01:56

people underestimate the power

1:01:56 – 1:01:58

of the system that's now upon

1:01:58 – 1:01:59

us. And we're at, as I

1:01:59 – 1:02:02

mentioned, GDP 5 .0.

1:02:02 – 1:02:03

It's a bit like PlayStation,

1:02:04 – 1:02:05

whatever it's at now, 15.

1:02:05 – 1:02:07

This will continue to iterate.

1:02:07 – 1:02:09

The AI that we're interacting

1:02:09 – 1:02:11

with now, a bit like ag tech,

1:02:11 – 1:02:13

this is not as good as it will

1:02:13 – 1:02:14

get. This is base level.

1:02:15 – 1:02:16

What we're going to see and

1:02:16 – 1:02:17

witness, and this is

1:02:18 – 1:02:20

a global phenomenon that will

1:02:20 – 1:02:22

play into every aspect of our

1:02:22 – 1:02:24

lives. Where we are now compared

1:02:24 – 1:02:26

to where we will be in three

1:02:26 – 1:02:28

years, it will look like science

1:02:28 – 1:02:28

fiction.

1:02:29 – 1:02:30

We're at the Model T Ford

1:02:30 – 1:02:32

element of AI.

1:02:32 – 1:02:34

We'll probably move within three

1:02:34 – 1:02:36

years, not 30 years, not 13

1:02:36 – 1:02:38

years. Within three years,

1:02:38 – 1:02:40

we'll be at the equivalent of

1:02:40 – 1:02:41

driving a Tesla compared to a

1:02:41 – 1:02:42

Model T Ford.

1:02:42 – 1:02:44

That's the rate of change that

1:02:44 – 1:02:45

we're going to be seeing.

1:02:48 – 1:02:49

Being becoming conversant with

1:02:49 – 1:02:52

that now at this early stage is

1:02:52 – 1:02:54

very advantageous for you as

1:02:54 – 1:02:56

that ability grows within the

1:02:56 – 1:02:58

systems that are available to

1:02:58 – 1:02:59

us.

1:02:59 – 1:03:00

But as you say, and this is the

1:03:00 – 1:03:02

thing right now, you don't it's

1:03:02 – 1:03:03

not just a matter of putting a

1:03:03 – 1:03:04

question in whether it's a

1:03:04 – 1:03:06

paragraph or five paragraphs, or

1:03:06 – 1:03:08

a few pages, you can put

1:03:08 – 1:03:10

research papers into it, you can

1:03:10 – 1:03:12

put your mentioned earlier SAP

1:03:12 – 1:03:13

whether you've got SAP results,

1:03:14 – 1:03:16

SAP analysis, should I say, or

1:03:16 – 1:03:18

soil analysis, all that can be

1:03:18 – 1:03:19

fed into this as well.

1:03:20 – 1:03:20

So,

1:03:20 – 1:03:22

But what I would say for people

1:03:22 – 1:03:24

who are uncertain about AI at

1:03:24 – 1:03:25

the moment is to work with

1:03:25 – 1:03:27

people like yourself in AEA.

1:03:27 – 1:03:28

And I'm not just saying this

1:03:28 – 1:03:29

because we're on the podcast

1:03:29 – 1:03:30

with you now.

1:03:30 – 1:03:31

People who have an

1:03:31 – 1:03:32

understanding, whoever your

1:03:32 – 1:03:34

current agronomist is, sit down

1:03:34 – 1:03:36

with your agronomist, whoever

1:03:36 – 1:03:37

they are, whether they come from

1:03:37 – 1:03:38

the local co -op extension,

1:03:39 – 1:03:40

whether they're AEA, whether

1:03:40 – 1:03:41

they're Understanding Ag, or the

1:03:41 – 1:03:43

plethora of other very highly

1:03:43 – 1:03:45

qualified, very experienced

1:03:45 – 1:03:48

agricultural and farming support

1:03:49 – 1:03:50

experts out there, whoever you

1:03:50 – 1:03:52

interact with within your farm,

1:03:52 – 1:03:55

sit down with them and get to

1:03:55 – 1:03:57

know how AI can support you

1:03:57 – 1:03:58

both.

1:03:58 – 1:04:00

And put all the information,

1:04:00 – 1:04:01

anything that you've got stored

1:04:01 – 1:04:02

in any of your other files,

1:04:03 – 1:04:04

loaded into the AI system.

1:04:05 – 1:04:07

And in exact, well, I'll put

1:04:07 – 1:04:08

this back to you, John.

1:04:08 – 1:04:10

What is the real core benefit,

1:04:10 – 1:04:12

in your view, of FieldLark?

1:04:12 – 1:04:14

And how has that benefit been

1:04:14 – 1:04:16

built into this system?

1:04:19 – 1:04:21

exactly what you're describing,

1:04:21 – 1:04:23

Martin. It comes down to

1:04:24 – 1:04:25

two

1:04:25 – 1:04:26

things.

1:04:26 – 1:04:30

One is the data

1:04:30 – 1:04:32

library that it has been trained

1:04:32 – 1:04:35

on. That is the unique AEA

1:04:35 – 1:04:36

knowledge set

1:04:36 – 1:04:39

and data set of sap analysis and

1:04:39 – 1:04:40

soil analysis and what the crop

1:04:40 – 1:04:41

performance outcomes of those

1:04:41 – 1:04:42

were.

1:04:42 – 1:04:45

It is on the Knowledge

1:04:45 – 1:04:47

Archive, all of the publicly

1:04:47 – 1:04:49

accessible papers and books and

1:04:49 – 1:04:50

so forth that are in the public

1:04:50 – 1:04:51

domain.

1:04:51 – 1:04:52

That is a knowledge set that is

1:04:52 – 1:04:54

particularly relevant to

1:04:54 – 1:04:56

regenerative agriculture and

1:04:56 – 1:04:57

just also to agriculture in

1:04:57 – 1:04:58

general,

1:04:59 – 1:05:00

combined with

1:05:00 – 1:05:03

the programming

1:05:04 – 1:05:06

that seeks to optimize

1:05:06 – 1:05:08

biological systems and that

1:05:08 – 1:05:09

follows ethical principles.

1:05:09 – 1:05:10

You know,

1:05:10 – 1:05:11

this is such an interesting

1:05:11 – 1:05:12

piece.

1:05:13 – 1:05:14

FieldARC has been out there now

1:05:14 – 1:05:15

for a couple of years.

1:05:16 – 1:05:18

and we have received almost

1:05:18 – 1:05:21

universally rave responses and

1:05:21 – 1:05:22

very positive feedback at this

1:05:22 – 1:05:23

early stage, which is not a

1:05:23 – 1:05:24

surprise because,

1:05:24 – 1:05:26

as you would expect, many of the

1:05:26 – 1:05:28

early users are

1:05:28 – 1:05:30

familiar with our work at

1:05:30 – 1:05:31

Advancing EcoAgriculture.

1:05:31 – 1:05:34

But we had one comment

1:05:34 – 1:05:36

on social media

1:05:36 – 1:05:39

where a grower said something to

1:05:39 – 1:05:40

the effect of, oh yeah, this

1:05:40 – 1:05:42

FieldARC is biased.

1:05:43 – 1:05:45

And that made me smile.

1:05:45 – 1:05:46

It made me laugh, actually,

1:05:46 – 1:05:48

because what

1:05:49 – 1:05:50

we did

1:05:50 – 1:05:52

is we deliberately directed

1:05:52 – 1:05:55

FieldArc to not have bias.

1:05:56 – 1:05:59

We deliberately directed it to

1:05:59 – 1:06:02

frame its logic process

1:06:02 – 1:06:04

and its thought processes in

1:06:04 – 1:06:05

terms of ethical principles

1:06:06 – 1:06:09

and of minimizing damage

1:06:09 – 1:06:11

to biological and ecological

1:06:11 – 1:06:12

systems.

1:06:13 – 1:06:14

And so

1:06:14 – 1:06:17

When we asked it to review all

1:06:17 – 1:06:18

of the extensive literature that

1:06:18 – 1:06:19

is out there,

1:06:19 – 1:06:22

when it formulates responses,

1:06:23 – 1:06:25

we asked it to not have bias, to

1:06:25 – 1:06:28

remove any bias in favor of

1:06:28 – 1:06:31

green revolution or more

1:06:31 – 1:06:34

modern solutions, and instead to

1:06:34 – 1:06:35

look at everything from a first

1:06:35 – 1:06:37

principles perspective of what

1:06:37 – 1:06:38

are the foundational principles

1:06:38 – 1:06:39

and the foundational ethical

1:06:39 – 1:06:42

principles. And when it provides

1:06:42 – 1:06:44

answers in that framework and in

1:06:44 – 1:06:44

that context,

1:06:45 – 1:06:47

it appears to be biased to

1:06:47 – 1:06:50

someone who only has that type

1:06:50 – 1:06:52

of or kind of the contemporary

1:06:52 – 1:06:54

agriculture knowledge set.

1:06:54 – 1:06:56

It appears to be biased when in

1:06:56 – 1:06:57

fact the

1:06:57 – 1:06:59

exact opposite is the case.

1:06:59 – 1:07:00

It has been deliberately

1:07:00 – 1:07:01

designed to remove bias.

1:07:02 – 1:07:03

Isn't that fascinating?

1:07:05 – 1:07:06

It's fascinating it's human

1:07:06 – 1:07:07

nature to expect that there's

1:07:07 – 1:07:08

bias built into it.

1:07:08 – 1:07:09

Just to clarify that for the

1:07:09 – 1:07:10

audience, as well, when you're

1:07:10 – 1:07:13

saying it has a pro

1:07:13 – 1:07:16

-AEA SLAM, are you talking about

1:07:16 – 1:07:17

amendments specifically that it

1:07:17 – 1:07:19

recommends or services?

1:07:20 – 1:07:22

It does not have a pro -AEA

1:07:22 – 1:07:22

SLAM.

1:07:24 – 1:07:26

It's been deliberately—it's been

1:07:26 – 1:07:27

deliberately instructed— Sorry,

1:07:27 – 1:07:28

the bias that you referenced.

1:07:30 – 1:07:31

It's been deliberately

1:07:31 – 1:07:33

instructed to not have bias

1:07:34 – 1:07:35

other

1:07:35 – 1:07:38

than—and it has been instructed

1:07:38 – 1:07:39

1:07:39 – 1:07:41

make all recommendations from a

1:07:41 – 1:07:43

first principles

1:07:43 – 1:07:46

ethical perspective and to

1:07:46 – 1:07:49

consider the impact on the

1:07:49 – 1:07:50

entire ecosystem.

1:07:50 – 1:07:51

So, for example,

1:07:51 – 1:07:54

if you were to ask Fieldark for

1:07:55 – 1:07:58

a nitrogen application on a corn

1:07:58 – 1:07:59

crop, I'll just pick a common

1:07:59 – 1:08:00

example,

1:08:00 – 1:08:03

it is unlikely to

1:08:03 – 1:08:04

recommend

1:08:05 – 1:08:06

anhydrous ammonia,

1:08:07 – 1:08:08

not because we've told it that

1:08:08 – 1:08:10

anhydrous ammonia is a bad

1:08:10 – 1:08:10

thing,

1:08:11 – 1:08:12

But because it looks at the

1:08:12 – 1:08:13

research, looks at the

1:08:13 – 1:08:14

literature, and says, aha,

1:08:15 – 1:08:16

anhydrous ammonia has

1:08:17 – 1:08:19

these negative impacts on the

1:08:19 – 1:08:21

soil microbiome as compared to

1:08:21 – 1:08:23

urea or ammonium sulfate or

1:08:23 – 1:08:24

other forms of nitrogen.

1:08:24 – 1:08:26

So, therefore, I'm going to be

1:08:26 – 1:08:27

cautious about recommending

1:08:27 – 1:08:28

anhydrous ammonia.

1:08:29 – 1:08:31

And I'm just using that as an

1:08:31 – 1:08:33

example, but it will look at

1:08:34 – 1:08:36

it will look at the potential

1:08:36 – 1:08:37

negative consequences and try to

1:08:37 – 1:08:39

minimize those consequences,

1:08:39 – 1:08:40

secondary and tertiary

1:08:40 – 1:08:42

consequences, when it is making

1:08:42 – 1:08:45

recommendations based on ethical

1:08:45 – 1:08:47

principles related to ecosystem

1:08:47 – 1:08:48

health and environmental health

1:08:48 – 1:08:49

and so forth.

1:08:52 – 1:08:53

At the end of the day, we're

1:08:53 – 1:08:55

looking to, as a farm operation,

1:08:56 – 1:08:57

you're looking for continuously

1:08:57 – 1:08:59

looking to optimize all

1:09:01 – 1:09:03

aspects of that farm operation.

1:09:03 – 1:09:05

And that's where we can say well

1:09:05 – 1:09:07

we know it all and we don't need

1:09:07 – 1:09:09

outside help or we can seek help

1:09:09 – 1:09:11

outside as it's how you and I

1:09:11 – 1:09:12

got to know each other.

1:09:12 – 1:09:13

I got led into regenerative

1:09:13 – 1:09:15

agriculture because of a

1:09:15 – 1:09:16

documentary I saw, The Little

1:09:16 – 1:09:18

Big Farm, that led me into

1:09:18 – 1:09:20

biodynamics and then I found a

1:09:20 – 1:09:21

lady I'm sure you know very

1:09:21 – 1:09:22

well,

1:09:23 – 1:09:23

Dr. Len Ingram.

1:09:24 – 1:09:25

I was regarded at the time as

1:09:25 – 1:09:27

the number one soil biologist on

1:09:27 – 1:09:28

the planet. I saw her presenting

1:09:28 – 1:09:29

to a bunch of English farmers,

1:09:29 – 1:09:30

funnily enough, on YouTube,

1:09:31 – 1:09:33

talking about this regenerative

1:09:33 – 1:09:34

farming.

1:09:33 – 1:09:34

Eight years ago, I didn't know

1:09:34 – 1:09:36

regenerative farming existed.

1:09:36 – 1:09:38

Something about what she was

1:09:38 – 1:09:40

saying and how she said it sold

1:09:40 – 1:09:42

into me. It was almost the

1:09:42 – 1:09:43

phrase that went through my

1:09:43 – 1:09:44

mind, whatever you're selling,

1:09:44 – 1:09:45

I'm buying.

1:09:45 – 1:09:47

And I deep dived into

1:09:47 – 1:09:48

regenerative agriculture and saw

1:09:48 – 1:09:50

immediately the benefits, what

1:09:50 – 1:09:51

that could deliver.

1:09:52 – 1:09:53

That was then a very,

1:09:54 – 1:09:55

Interesting conversation I had

1:09:55 – 1:09:57

with the owner of the business

1:09:57 – 1:09:58

that I'm currently working with,

1:09:58 – 1:09:59

Union Grove Farm.

1:10:00 – 1:10:01

Greg's a very astute business

1:10:01 – 1:10:03

person. He understands farming,

1:10:03 – 1:10:04

but he's business driven, and

1:10:04 – 1:10:06

he's very, very good at driving

1:10:06 – 1:10:07

that business into

1:10:07 – 1:10:08

profitability.

1:10:08 – 1:10:10

He and I both saw regenerative

1:10:10 – 1:10:12

agriculture as the future if we

1:10:12 – 1:10:13

wanted to become a profitable

1:10:13 – 1:10:14

enterprise.

1:10:14 – 1:10:16

What AI does now, what

1:10:16 – 1:10:19

functionality that you

1:10:19 – 1:10:20

deliver,

1:10:20 – 1:10:22

with field lark as an example.

1:10:22 – 1:10:24

You can use chat to be TB, but

1:10:24 – 1:10:26

if I'm going to be utilising

1:10:26 – 1:10:28

AONI more and more these days, I

1:10:28 – 1:10:29

want something that will have an

1:10:29 – 1:10:30

understanding of the

1:10:30 – 1:10:33

agronomistic challenges that I

1:10:33 – 1:10:34

face.

1:10:34 – 1:10:36

What can take my soil and my sap

1:10:36 – 1:10:38

test earlier, the field symptoms

1:10:38 – 1:10:40

into a step -by -step, biology

1:10:40 – 1:10:41

first,

1:10:42 – 1:10:43

recommendations that I can

1:10:43 – 1:10:46

utilize and pull up on my phone

1:10:46 – 1:10:47

out in the field.

1:10:47 – 1:10:49

I can snap something in the

1:10:49 – 1:10:50

field and do this as well.

1:10:50 – 1:10:51

You said earlier what other

1:10:51 – 1:10:52

functionalities we have.

1:10:53 – 1:10:54

We've just gone through a whole

1:10:54 – 1:10:56

series of fungal outbreaks on

1:10:56 – 1:10:58

the farm with our grapes over

1:10:58 – 1:10:59

this season because we've never

1:10:59 – 1:11:01

seen rain like we've had this

1:11:01 – 1:11:03

year. We had 22, 23 inches in

1:11:03 – 1:11:04

one month, July.

1:11:04 – 1:11:05

Never seen it like,

1:11:05 – 1:11:07

never seen anything like it

1:11:07 – 1:11:09

before. That created like a

1:11:09 – 1:11:11

petri dish for fungal outbreaks.

1:11:11 – 1:11:12

Some of these fungals we'd not

1:11:12 – 1:11:14

seen before. I was able to take

1:11:14 – 1:11:16

real -time, in -the -field

1:11:16 – 1:11:18

photographs of these different

1:11:18 – 1:11:19

markings

1:11:20 – 1:11:23

on the fruit, on the leaves, and

1:11:23 – 1:11:24

feed that into my AI, fed it

1:11:24 – 1:11:26

into, I feel like I fed it into

1:11:26 – 1:11:29

Jack Chatty to GTP, so I've got

1:11:29 – 1:11:29

a reference,

1:11:30 – 1:11:31

and it immediately threw up

1:11:31 – 1:11:32

suggestions. Now, some of those

1:11:32 – 1:11:34

suggestions were incorrect.

1:11:34 – 1:11:35

A lot of them were correct.

1:11:36 – 1:11:37

Right in behind that,

1:11:37 – 1:11:39

It immediately gives you

1:11:39 – 1:11:41

recommendations on how to deal

1:11:41 – 1:11:43

with this, whether it's your

1:11:43 – 1:11:44

protocols, your practices, your

1:11:44 – 1:11:46

systems, or amendments.

1:11:47 – 1:11:48

That's something which would

1:11:48 – 1:11:50

have taken a phone call, I would

1:11:50 – 1:11:52

have had to dial somebody in.

1:11:52 – 1:11:53

And

1:11:53 – 1:11:56

again, it doesn't stop that

1:11:56 – 1:11:58

interaction with people within

1:11:58 – 1:12:00

your farm operation, bringing in

1:12:00 – 1:12:00

your vineyard manager,

1:12:01 – 1:12:02

your agronomist.

1:12:03 – 1:12:04

But what it does, it speeds

1:12:04 – 1:12:06

things up, as I said earlier, it

1:12:06 – 1:12:08

augments, it doesn't replace.

1:12:08 – 1:12:09

We've never had that before.

1:12:09 – 1:12:11

I think what we're going to find

1:12:11 – 1:12:13

as we move forward, is that this

1:12:13 – 1:12:14

is going to be somewhat of a

1:12:14 – 1:12:15

revelation for people once they

1:12:15 – 1:12:17

apply themselves into it.

1:12:17 – 1:12:18

And that's the key to it.

1:12:18 – 1:12:19

It's a new tool,

1:12:20 – 1:12:21

learn it, and you'll benefit

1:12:21 – 1:12:22

from it.

1:12:22 – 1:12:23

If you don't, then,

1:12:24 – 1:12:26

well, people are not using the

1:12:26 – 1:12:27

plow anymore and the horse.

1:12:28 – 1:12:29

This is what we're moving to

1:12:29 – 1:12:30

with agriculture.

1:12:30 – 1:12:32

Yeah, I see similar to you that

1:12:32 – 1:12:34

the speed of evolution, the

1:12:34 – 1:12:35

speed of development of AI is

1:12:35 – 1:12:38

moving so rapidly that

1:12:38 – 1:12:39

1:12:40 – 1:12:41

we're at the Model T forward

1:12:41 – 1:12:42

stage, we're going to,

1:12:43 – 1:12:43

I mean, there are

1:12:44 – 1:12:45

general assessments that we'll

1:12:45 – 1:12:48

be at general AI by 2027,

1:12:48 – 1:12:50

right, by 2030 at the latest.

1:12:50 – 1:12:51

And

1:12:52 – 1:12:54

It is the time to learn about it

1:12:54 – 1:12:55

and to become familiar with it.

1:12:55 – 1:12:57

is now or to be left in the

1:12:57 – 1:12:59

dust. I mean, I think the top

1:12:59 – 1:13:00

performing agronomists and

1:13:00 – 1:13:01

farmers in the future will be

1:13:01 – 1:13:02

the people who embrace this

1:13:02 – 1:13:05

technology. It will be

1:13:06 – 1:13:07

1:13:07 – 1:13:10

readily and widely used as

1:13:10 – 1:13:12

a Google search is today.

1:13:12 – 1:13:14

And I'm using Google as a verb

1:13:14 – 1:13:16

now.

1:13:16 – 1:13:18

Um, as a search engine, we're

1:13:18 – 1:13:20

going to have similar verbs for

1:13:20 – 1:13:22

using AI in the future, in the

1:13:22 – 1:13:23

very near future, I think.

1:13:24 – 1:13:25

Um, so I want to talk a bit

1:13:25 – 1:13:26

about your disease pressure

1:13:26 – 1:13:27

because

1:13:27 – 1:13:30

I am absolutely delighted and

1:13:30 – 1:13:31

impressed with the results that

1:13:31 – 1:13:32

we're getting from pinion.

1:13:32 – 1:13:33

It's, it's our first year of

1:13:33 – 1:13:34

having pinion in the field in a

1:13:34 – 1:13:35

significant way.

1:13:36 – 1:13:37

And,

1:13:37 – 1:13:38

um,

1:13:38 – 1:13:40

when I, when I, I

1:13:41 – 1:13:42

first developed this product,

1:13:42 – 1:13:43

it's been sitting on the shelf

1:13:43 – 1:13:44

for a decade.

1:13:44 – 1:13:45

And.

1:13:46 – 1:13:47

We've done some further

1:13:47 – 1:13:48

refinements and improvements as

1:13:48 – 1:13:50

we developed it and brought it

1:13:50 – 1:13:50

to the marketplace.

1:13:50 – 1:13:51

But

1:13:51 – 1:13:52

this,

1:13:52 – 1:13:53

it has such

1:13:54 – 1:13:56

a profound

1:13:57 – 1:13:59

impact. At this point, we have,

1:13:59 – 1:14:00

I don't know the exact number of

1:14:00 – 1:14:01

operations that we have it out

1:14:01 – 1:14:02

on this summer.

1:14:02 – 1:14:03

It's quite a number of them.

1:14:03 – 1:14:05

And it's been

1:14:05 – 1:14:07

hitting the ball out of the park

1:14:07 – 1:14:09

consistently on a broad range of

1:14:09 – 1:14:10

fungal and bacterial diseases.

1:14:10 – 1:14:11

Have you, I'm not sure

1:14:11 – 1:14:13

exactly what the context is

1:14:13 – 1:14:14

here. Have you had the chance to

1:14:14 – 1:14:15

use it yet on your operation

1:14:15 – 1:14:16

with the disease pressure that

1:14:16 – 1:14:17

you've had?

1:14:17 – 1:14:20

Well, I track your organization,

1:14:20 – 1:14:22

scan your web on a regular

1:14:22 – 1:14:23

basis. Plus, I've got my finger

1:14:23 – 1:14:24

on the pulse with yourself and

1:14:24 – 1:14:27

people like Tish and the

1:14:27 – 1:14:30

operatives that we use in the

1:14:30 – 1:14:31

field with AEA.

1:14:31 – 1:14:33

So, yes, I was made aware of

1:14:33 – 1:14:33

Pinion,

1:14:34 – 1:14:37

our in -house scientist who's

1:14:37 – 1:14:38

over soil and

1:14:40 – 1:14:40

Vine Health,

1:14:41 – 1:14:43

Patrick Carvanhaar, has actually

1:14:43 – 1:14:44

been in conversation with your

1:14:44 – 1:14:47

people at technical level, as

1:14:47 – 1:14:49

well as your vineyard operations

1:14:49 – 1:14:49

expert.

1:14:50 – 1:14:51

Pedro, out in California.

1:14:53 – 1:14:54

The reason why we were searching

1:14:54 – 1:14:56

and seeking for something in

1:14:56 – 1:14:57

this area is for the reason I've

1:14:57 – 1:14:57

just stated.

1:14:58 – 1:14:59

This year, it's been rain.

1:14:59 – 1:15:00

Last year, we had

1:15:00 – 1:15:02

close to a drought for six

1:15:02 – 1:15:02

weeks.

1:15:03 – 1:15:04

We talked about this right at

1:15:04 – 1:15:05

the start. The climate is

1:15:05 – 1:15:07

changing. The climate has always

1:15:07 – 1:15:08

changed. We live in a planet

1:15:08 – 1:15:10

where we have extreme weather

1:15:10 – 1:15:11

events.

1:15:12 – 1:15:12

What

1:15:12 – 1:15:15

we've got now with adjuncts and

1:15:15 – 1:15:18

support with things like AAA and

1:15:18 – 1:15:20

the amendments is something

1:15:20 – 1:15:22

which helps us to deal better,

1:15:22 – 1:15:23

more optimally with the

1:15:23 – 1:15:24

challenges that we will

1:15:24 – 1:15:26

continuously face in farming.

1:15:26 – 1:15:29

So, pinyin came on our radar.

1:15:29 – 1:15:31

I think when I first looked at

1:15:31 – 1:15:32

it on your website, it's

1:15:32 – 1:15:33

literally introducing it.

1:15:33 – 1:15:34

It's got a picture of grapes

1:15:34 – 1:15:35

alongside.

1:15:35 – 1:15:37

We needed something to help us

1:15:37 – 1:15:39

tackle fungal and bacterial

1:15:39 – 1:15:40

pathogens.

1:15:40 – 1:15:42

And what my understanding is,

1:15:42 – 1:15:44

and something which would tackle

1:15:44 – 1:15:46

fungal and bacterial pathogens

1:15:46 – 1:15:48

that doesn't disrupt the plant's

1:15:48 – 1:15:50

microbiome. So I don't want to

1:15:50 – 1:15:51

use a synthetic.

1:15:51 – 1:15:53

If you're organic, you can't use

1:15:53 – 1:15:55

a synthetic. If you're

1:15:55 – 1:15:56

regenerative, you mitigate it

1:15:56 – 1:15:58

with a view to eradicating it.

1:15:58 – 1:15:59

But we've got problems and

1:15:59 – 1:16:01

challenges within farming,

1:16:02 – 1:16:03

whatever crop you've got, which

1:16:03 – 1:16:05

need to be dealt with

1:16:05 – 1:16:06

immediately, all that crop's

1:16:06 – 1:16:07

gone.

1:16:07 – 1:16:09

So the fact that we heard pinyon

1:16:09 – 1:16:10

was being brought to the market

1:16:10 – 1:16:12

for us was very, very good

1:16:12 – 1:16:13

timing.

1:16:13 – 1:16:14

What we then were a little

1:16:14 – 1:16:16

disappointed to find out was it

1:16:16 – 1:16:18

wasn't available because it

1:16:18 – 1:16:19

hadn't been signed off at

1:16:19 – 1:16:20

official level in North

1:16:20 – 1:16:21

Carolina. So my understanding

1:16:21 – 1:16:23

last time I spoke with Patrick

1:16:23 – 1:16:24

is we're going through that

1:16:24 – 1:16:25

process with you and your

1:16:25 – 1:16:27

internal people to fast track

1:16:27 – 1:16:28

that through. And then I think

1:16:28 – 1:16:30

we will very probably be the

1:16:30 – 1:16:31

first farm operation in North

1:16:31 – 1:16:33

Carolina, potentially the

1:16:33 – 1:16:33

Southeast.

1:16:34 – 1:16:35

to be using the product.

1:16:35 – 1:16:37

So yeah, I'm looking forward to

1:16:37 – 1:16:40

seeing how it can be applied

1:16:40 – 1:16:42

to the challenges that we've got

1:16:42 – 1:16:43

on fungals.

1:16:43 – 1:16:45

Yeah, I'll be looking forward to

1:16:45 – 1:16:46

that. a follow -up conversation

1:16:46 – 1:16:47

with you on that.

1:16:47 – 1:16:49

We have, as of this point,

1:16:49 – 1:16:50

1:16:51 – 1:16:52

course, as our organization has

1:16:52 – 1:16:54

grown, I don't, I'm no longer at

1:16:55 – 1:16:56

the level where I personally

1:16:56 – 1:16:57

have context and familiarity

1:16:57 – 1:16:59

with every farm that has tried

1:16:59 – 1:17:00

it. But as of this point,

1:17:01 – 1:17:02

of the many people who've

1:17:02 – 1:17:03

applied it,

1:17:04 – 1:17:06

I know of one particular

1:17:06 – 1:17:08

orchard application

1:17:08 – 1:17:09

where

1:17:10 – 1:17:11

One application—actually,

1:17:12 – 1:17:14

it's not—let me be sure to state

1:17:14 – 1:17:15

this precisely.

1:17:16 – 1:17:18

They made applications

1:17:18 – 1:17:21

50 % as often as they did a

1:17:21 – 1:17:22

conventional fungicide

1:17:22 – 1:17:23

treatment,

1:17:24 – 1:17:25

and

1:17:25 – 1:17:27

it underperformed the

1:17:27 – 1:17:28

conventional fungicide treatment

1:17:28 – 1:17:30

by about 5%.

1:17:31 – 1:17:33

And I'm like, all right, I'm

1:17:33 – 1:17:34

okay with that result.

1:17:34 – 1:17:36

50 % application and under—it

1:17:36 – 1:17:38

performed almost the equivalent

1:17:38 – 1:17:39

of a conventional fungicide.

1:17:40 – 1:17:42

That's a result that I'm quite

1:17:42 – 1:17:42

happy with.

1:17:44 – 1:17:45

And that's the worst performance

1:17:45 – 1:17:47

that I'm aware of at this point

1:17:47 – 1:17:49

on just a broad diversity, a

1:17:49 – 1:17:50

broad array of different

1:17:50 – 1:17:52

diseases, bacterial and fungal

1:17:52 – 1:17:53

diseases that it's been tried

1:17:53 – 1:17:54

on. So

1:17:54 – 1:17:55

I'm quite excited to see where

1:17:55 – 1:17:56

that goes this coming year.

1:17:57 – 1:17:58

So at any rate,

1:17:58 – 1:18:00

Martin, I've really enjoyed this

1:18:00 – 1:18:01

conversation.

1:18:01 – 1:18:03

There are many topics that we

1:18:03 – 1:18:04

could have talked about that we

1:18:04 – 1:18:04

haven't gotten to yet.

1:18:05 – 1:18:06

What's something important that

1:18:06 – 1:18:07

we've missed?

1:18:09 – 1:18:11

For me, I'll circle back again,

1:18:11 – 1:18:14

the future for humanity, you

1:18:14 – 1:18:16

might say, is moving away from

1:18:16 – 1:18:19

the competitive culture, society

1:18:19 – 1:18:21

mindset that we've had for

1:18:21 – 1:18:22

centuries now,

1:18:23 – 1:18:25

and moving more towards the

1:18:25 – 1:18:26

collaborative,

1:18:26 – 1:18:27

cooperative approach.

1:18:28 – 1:18:29

And I'm seeing this more and

1:18:29 – 1:18:30

more certainly that it's been

1:18:30 – 1:18:32

such a pleasure and an honor to

1:18:32 – 1:18:33

operate within the regenerative

1:18:33 – 1:18:35

movement and reference this all

1:18:35 – 1:18:37

the time as a regenerative

1:18:37 – 1:18:38

movement by that I mean,

1:18:39 – 1:18:40

farming,

1:18:40 – 1:18:41

food,

1:18:41 – 1:18:43

health, investment,

1:18:43 – 1:18:44

research, policy.

1:18:45 – 1:18:46

We're in the regenerative

1:18:46 – 1:18:48

species business.

1:18:49 – 1:18:50

We've got a lot of broad

1:18:50 – 1:18:51

consistencies we've spoken about

1:18:51 – 1:18:53

throughout the podcast today.

1:18:53 – 1:18:55

The two areas that I work more

1:18:55 – 1:18:57

primarily than anything else is

1:18:57 – 1:18:58

what we met the healthcare

1:18:58 – 1:19:01

industry and the health

1:19:01 – 1:19:04

system and the food system.

1:19:04 – 1:19:05

The two are symbiotically

1:19:05 – 1:19:06

linked.

1:19:06 – 1:19:08

And in order to move forward

1:19:08 – 1:19:09

now, farms,

1:19:09 – 1:19:11

farmers and farm operations play

1:19:11 – 1:19:13

an absolutely fundamental core

1:19:13 – 1:19:14

role within that.

1:19:15 – 1:19:16

And it's not just the health of

1:19:16 – 1:19:18

the system and the food, it's

1:19:18 – 1:19:19

the health of the farmers.

1:19:19 – 1:19:21

So I think if anything I'd like

1:19:21 – 1:19:24

to end on is for people out

1:19:24 – 1:19:25

there who are in farming, who

1:19:25 – 1:19:26

are farmers and in farming

1:19:26 – 1:19:28

operations, for those who are

1:19:28 – 1:19:29

listening who might be a

1:19:29 – 1:19:31

consumer or just an interested

1:19:31 – 1:19:32

third party,

1:19:33 – 1:19:34

farming is

1:19:34 – 1:19:36

One is without a doubt, I've

1:19:36 – 1:19:37

worked in seven different

1:19:37 – 1:19:38

industries across the planet in

1:19:38 – 1:19:39

the last 35 years,

1:19:40 – 1:19:41

never come anything close to the

1:19:41 – 1:19:43

challenges and to the hard work

1:19:43 – 1:19:45

and dedication farmers put into

1:19:45 – 1:19:47

farm operations to provide us

1:19:47 – 1:19:49

with the absolute single most

1:19:49 – 1:19:51

important thing that we all need

1:19:51 – 1:19:52

is food.

1:19:53 – 1:19:53

We all need air.

1:19:54 – 1:19:54

We all need water.

1:19:54 – 1:19:55

We all need food.

1:19:55 – 1:19:58

So I'm very grateful to farmers

1:19:58 – 1:20:00

for providing that throughout my

1:20:00 – 1:20:00

lifetime.

1:20:01 – 1:20:02

And now what I feel a

1:20:02 – 1:20:04

responsibility towards is to be

1:20:04 – 1:20:05

more supportive of them and

1:20:05 – 1:20:07

their needs and how we can

1:20:07 – 1:20:09

utilize modern technology,

1:20:09 – 1:20:11

different ways of operating like

1:20:11 – 1:20:12

marketing and business

1:20:12 – 1:20:14

development to make their lives

1:20:14 – 1:20:15

a little easier,

1:20:15 – 1:20:16

to lighten the burden, to give

1:20:16 – 1:20:18

them some of the time back and

1:20:18 – 1:20:19

to give them an opportunity to

1:20:19 – 1:20:21

make a profitable operation that

1:20:21 – 1:20:23

not only they will enjoy,

1:20:23 – 1:20:24

farming in again, but also

1:20:24 – 1:20:26

encourage the generations behind

1:20:26 – 1:20:28

them to keep that pattern being

1:20:28 – 1:20:30

led forward into the future.

1:20:31 – 1:20:32

Thank you, Martin.

1:20:32 – 1:20:33

Thanks for being here, for

1:20:33 – 1:20:34

sharing your perspectives.

1:20:34 – 1:20:36

and your experience, and I look

1:20:36 – 1:20:37

forward to having more

1:20:37 – 1:20:37

discussions.

1:20:38 – 1:20:39

Absolute pleasure, John.

1:20:39 – 1:20:40

Thank you for all that you do in

1:20:40 – 1:20:42

the movement as well.

1:20:42 – 1:20:43

It's very much appreciated, sir.

1:20:44 – 1:20:45

The team at AEA and I are

1:20:45 – 1:20:47

dedicated to bringing this show

1:20:47 – 1:20:48

to you because we believe that

1:20:48 – 1:20:50

knowledge and information is the

1:20:50 – 1:20:52

foundation of successful

1:20:52 – 1:20:53

regenerative systems.

1:20:54 – 1:20:56

At AEA, we believe that growing

1:20:56 – 1:20:58

better quality food and making

1:20:58 – 1:20:59

more money from your crops is

1:20:59 – 1:21:00

possible.

1:21:00 – 1:21:02

And since 2006, we've worked

1:21:02 – 1:21:03

with leading professional

1:21:03 – 1:21:04

growers to help them do just

1:21:04 – 1:21:05

that.

1:21:05 – 1:21:07

At AEA, we don't guess.

1:21:07 – 1:21:09

We test. We analyze.

1:21:09 – 1:21:11

And we provide recommendations

1:21:11 – 1:21:12

based on scientific data,

1:21:13 – 1:21:14

knowledge, and experience.

1:21:14 – 1:21:15

We've developed products that

1:21:15 – 1:21:17

are uniquely positioned to help

1:21:17 – 1:21:18

growers make more money with

1:21:18 – 1:21:19

regenerative agriculture.

1:21:20 – 1:21:21

If you are a professional grower

1:21:21 – 1:21:23

who believes in testing instead

1:21:23 – 1:21:24

of guessing,

1:21:25 – 1:21:26

someone who believes in a

1:21:26 – 1:21:27

better, more regenerative way to

1:21:27 – 1:21:28

grow,

1:21:28 – 1:21:30

visit advancingecoag .com

1:21:30 – 1:21:32

and contact us to see if AEA is

1:21:32 – 1:21:33

right for you.