Glenn Elzinga is a seasoned rancher who has spent 34 years managing Alderspring Ranch in the wild, high-country landscapes of Idaho. Growing up on conventional farms that relied heavily on chemicals and formulaic business models, Glenn’s career shifted dramatically after a “clobber over the head” moment forced him to innovate to survive. Today, he and his family manage 47,000 acres of wilderness rangeland, where they have pioneered “inheritance grazing” by living with their cattle 24-7 on horseback to coexist with wolves and maximize plant diversity.
By collaborating with researchers like Dr. Stephan van Vliet, he has provided empirical evidence that grazing cattle on diverse wild ranges produces beef with significantly higher anti-inflammatory and antioxidant compounds compared to feedlot alternatives. His work emphasizes the “nutritional wisdom” of animals and the importance of vertical enterprise stacking to create a profitable, multi-generational future for regenerative agriculture.
In this episode, John and Glenn discuss:
The shift from formulaic commodity agriculture to the “Wild West” of the regenerative space.
How maintaining human presence on the ground allows ranchers to coexist with predators like wolves.
The results of metabolomics research comparing wild-range beef to feedlot beef.
The concept of nutritional wisdom and how cattle self-select plants for preventative medicine.
Why handling cattle with a focus on their left-eye perception reduces stress and improves performance.
Moving from horizontal expansion to vertical stacking to bring the next generation into agriculture.
Additional Resources
To learn more about Glenn and Alderspring ranch, please visit: https://www.alderspring.com/
About John Kempf
John Kempf is the founder of Advancing Eco Agriculture (AEA). A top expert in biological and regenerative farming, John founded AEA in 2006 to help fellow farmers by providing the education, tools, and strategies that will have a global effect on the food supply and those who grow it.
Through intense study and the knowledge gleaned from many industry leaders, John is building a comprehensive systems-based approach to plant nutrition – a system solidly based on the sciences of plant physiology, mineral nutrition, and soil microbiology.
Support For This Show & Helping You Grow
Since 2006, AEA has been on a mission to help growers become more resilient, efficient, and profitable with regenerative agriculture.
AEA works directly with growers to apply its unique line of liquid mineral crop nutrition products and biological inoculants. Informed by cutting-edge plant and soil data-gathering techniques, AEA’s science-based programs empower farm operations to meet the crop quality markers that matter the most.
AEA has created real and lasting change on millions of acres with its products and data-driven services by working hand-in-hand with growers to produce healthier soil, stronger crops, and higher profits.
Beyond working on the ground with growers, AEA leads in regenerative agriculture media and education, producing and distributing the popular and highly-regarded Regenerative Agriculture Podcast, inspiring webinars, and other educational content that serve as go-to resources for growers worldwide.
Learn more about AEA’s regenerative programs and products: https://www.advancingecoag.com
Podcast Transcript
0:01 – 0:02
And when you do that, you got
0:03 – 0:04
green grass growing way into the
0:04 – 0:05
winter.
0:05 – 0:07
And, you know, I'm just
0:07 – 0:08
continually astounded.
0:09 – 0:10
I've been at this 34 years.
0:12 – 0:13
And the stuff I'm still picking
0:13 – 0:16
up is, you know, stuff that
0:17 – 0:20
is life changing revelations.
0:20 – 0:21
And a lot of it is just from
0:21 – 0:22
looking at the land and looking
0:22 – 0:23
at the cattle.
0:25 – 0:26
But, you know, I've been bumping
0:26 – 0:28
into so many stockmanship
0:28 – 0:29
things. You know, we could talk
0:29 – 0:30
about so many things like this
0:30 – 0:32
cortisol thing and cattle.
0:32 – 0:35
And oh, gosh, it just it is
0:35 – 0:36
taking me to brand new places.
0:37 – 0:37
And I don't have answers.
0:37 – 0:39
I just got questions, John.
0:40 – 0:41
So I should be actually
0:41 – 0:41
interviewing you.
0:45 – 0:45
Well,
0:46 – 0:47
for some of the questions you
0:47 – 0:48
might have, I may not be the
0:48 – 0:49
person that has the answers.
0:50 – 0:51
Well, you know, I'm sure,
0:51 – 0:52
you know, and that is the
0:52 – 0:53
interesting thing about the
0:53 – 0:54
regenerative space.
0:57 – 0:58
You know, I was brought up
0:59 – 1:01
working on very conventional
1:01 – 1:03
farms of every shape and size,
1:03 – 1:04
you know, all the way from corn
1:04 – 1:05
and soybeans to
1:05 – 1:09
produce to orchards, using
1:09 – 1:10
chemicals all the time.
1:10 – 1:11
That
1:11 – 1:13
was my childhood growing up.
1:13 – 1:14
And, you
1:16 – 1:17
know, the thing about the
1:17 – 1:18
regenerative space that's
1:18 – 1:19
different from that is like
1:19 – 1:20
everybody in commodity
1:20 – 1:22
agriculture, not everybody, but
1:22 – 1:23
most people in commodity
1:23 – 1:24
agriculture follow this
1:24 – 1:25
formulaic
1:27 – 1:28
way of doing business.
1:28 – 1:29
I don't care if you're an
1:29 – 1:30
orchard. I don't care if you're
1:30 – 1:32
growing sod or
1:33 – 1:34
corn or soybeans,
1:34 – 1:35
and then you get into the
1:35 – 1:36
regenerative space, and it's the
1:36 – 1:37
Wild West.
1:38 – 1:39
There is no formula, that's for
1:39 – 1:40
sure.
1:40 – 1:41
Yeah, everybody's doing
1:40 – 1:41
something different.
1:42 – 1:43
And so you can go to somebody's
1:43 – 1:44
place, like the Alexander's
1:44 – 1:45
place,
1:45 – 1:46
and I know I'm going to learn
1:46 – 1:47
stuff.
1:47 – 1:48
Hey, I never thought about that
1:48 – 1:50
before. And it's because for
1:50 – 1:52
them, it's just like me, you're
1:52 – 1:54
opening a new box every day.
1:54 – 1:56
And it's like, wait, I didn't
1:56 – 1:57
even know that was in there.
1:57 – 1:59
And it's because we can.
1:59 – 2:00
And it's because we can.
2:00 – 2:01
by definition, that's what we
2:01 – 2:02
do.
2:02 – 2:03
And that's
2:04 – 2:05
why it's fun. And that's why
2:05 – 2:07
we're seeing burnout and
2:07 – 2:09
conventional ag and people
2:09 – 2:10
getting disillusioned and
2:10 – 2:11
hopelessness.
2:12 – 2:13
So anyway,
2:13 – 2:15
and you're bringing a lot of
2:15 – 2:17
hope to people and asking the
2:17 – 2:18
questions that actually create
2:18 – 2:19
more questions for them.
2:19 – 2:20
And that's just what we want.
2:21 – 2:22
That's the beautiful thing.
2:22 – 2:23
That is one of the things that
2:23 – 2:24
I've learned.
2:25 – 2:27
I think one of the most,
2:28 – 2:29
I don't know if I would call it
2:29 – 2:31
the most underrated skill, but
2:31 – 2:32
perhaps the underappreciated
2:32 – 2:34
skill or one that I've learned
2:34 – 2:36
to appreciate is
2:37 – 2:39
the ability to ask the right
2:39 – 2:39
questions.
2:40 – 2:41
Um,
2:41 – 2:42
and, and it's
2:43 – 2:45
actually one of my
2:46 – 2:48
biggest frustrations at times
2:48 – 2:49
has been when I have been here
2:49 – 2:50
as a podcast host
2:51 – 2:53
and, or not even, or even just
2:53 – 2:54
in conversation.
2:54 – 2:55
And
2:55 – 2:57
I recognize that I'm having a
2:57 – 2:59
conversation with someone who
2:59 – 3:00
is.
3:01 – 3:03
not necessarily genius, but who
3:03 – 3:05
is very wise, who is rich in
3:05 – 3:06
experience and rich in
3:06 – 3:08
knowledge, who is a walking
3:08 – 3:08
encyclopedia,
3:09 – 3:11
and who's not smart enough to
3:11 – 3:12
know the right question to ask.
3:13 – 3:14
That can be
3:14 – 3:15
very frustrating.
3:16 – 3:16
When I recognize,
3:17 – 3:18
and I've had conversations with
3:18 – 3:20
a few individuals like this who,
3:21 – 3:22
I mean, they're the classic
3:22 – 3:24
example
3:24 – 3:26
of a walking encyclopedia,
3:26 – 3:29
but they also didn't volunteer
3:29 – 3:30
information. You had to be smart
3:30 – 3:31
enough to know the question to
3:31 – 3:32
ask in order to find the answer.
3:33 – 3:34
Yeah.
3:34 – 3:35
That's
3:35 – 3:37
a frustrating experience when
3:37 – 3:38
you recognize that here are
3:38 – 3:40
people who are on the edge of
3:40 – 3:41
being geniuses and you can't
3:41 – 3:42
draw out what they have within
3:42 – 3:43
them because you don't know the
3:43 – 3:44
subject that they know.
3:45 – 3:46
You know, and I think a lot of
3:46 – 3:47
it, John, and correct me if I'm
3:47 – 3:48
wrong, I think it's paradigm.
3:50 – 3:51
You know, I think when you're
3:51 – 3:52
when you're in a paradigm and
3:52 – 3:53
you don't see, you
3:54 – 3:55
know, that it's saying
3:55 – 3:58
this dish on the table, the
3:58 – 3:59
fruit bowl is now empty.
3:59 – 4:00
You're in that fruit bowl,
4:01 – 4:02
and you can't see out.
4:02 – 4:03
You can't see over the sides.
4:05 – 4:06
All of your
4:06 – 4:08
thoughts revolve around
4:10 – 4:11
your life in the fruit bowl,
4:13 – 4:14
and you really can't see out of
4:14 – 4:15
it.
4:15 – 4:16
The fruit bowl is life.
4:16 – 4:18
So until somebody like knocks
4:18 – 4:21
over the fruit bowl or, um, you
4:21 – 4:22
know, shoots a fire hose of
4:22 – 4:23
water in there to get you to
4:23 – 4:26
want to find out brownie.
4:27 – 4:27
I mean, that's what happened to
4:27 – 4:29
a lot of us in conventional ag.
4:29 – 4:30
You know, I was pretty
4:30 – 4:31
conventional on our cattle
4:31 – 4:31
business
4:31 – 4:34
and there were certain times
4:34 – 4:35
where somebody came along and
4:36 – 4:37
started clubbing me over the
4:37 – 4:38
head and I was not going to
4:38 – 4:40
survive the clubbing
4:40 – 4:42
unless if I pulled away and
4:42 – 4:43
said,
4:43 – 4:44
Wait, we need to think about
4:44 – 4:45
this differently.
4:45 – 4:46
You know what I mean?
4:46 – 4:47
So I see this in crop
4:47 – 4:48
agriculture all the time.
4:48 – 4:50
I got many relatives in the
4:50 – 4:51
Midwest.
4:52 – 4:53
They're fantastic farmers.
4:54 – 4:56
And for them, the tweak,
4:57 – 4:58
because of the paradigm,
4:58 – 5:00
is I'm
5:00 – 5:01
going to switch to anhydrous.
5:02 – 5:03
I'm going to switch to
5:03 – 5:04
anhydrous. I'm going to do the
5:04 – 5:05
switch. And I know it's
5:05 – 5:06
dangerous. And I know people get
5:06 – 5:07
hurt.
5:07 – 5:08
But I'm going to go to
5:07 – 5:10
anhydrous. Or I'm not going to
5:10 – 5:11
take my corn to the elevator
5:11 – 5:12
anymore.
5:12 – 5:13
I'm going to build a bin.
5:14 – 5:15
And for them, those are the
5:15 – 5:16
shifts that
5:17 – 5:18
their brilliance gets
5:19 – 5:20
attention to. You know what I
5:20 – 5:22
mean? These hacks within that
5:22 – 5:24
system. But they can't see
5:24 – 5:25
outside the bowl.
5:26 – 5:27
And
5:26 – 5:28
until something abruptly, you
5:28 – 5:30
know, say, say we pulled the
5:31 – 5:33
entire subsidy off
5:34 – 5:36
the business of commodity crops,
5:36 – 5:36
cotton, corn,
5:37 – 5:38
soybeans.
5:39 – 5:40
You say we pulled subsidies off
5:40 – 5:41
that.
5:42 – 5:43
That would be a fire hose in a
5:43 – 5:44
bowl for people.
5:44 – 5:45
It would just blow them right
5:45 – 5:47
out of there. And either they
5:47 – 5:48
just quit.
5:49 – 5:52
or the genius would kick in,
5:52 – 5:53
John. It would kick in
5:54 – 5:55
for a lot of them.
5:56 – 5:59
You are so spot on.
6:00 – 6:01
The genius would kick in because
6:03 – 6:04
necessity is the mother of
6:04 – 6:05
invention. And you know,
6:06 – 6:07
there's this question,
6:08 – 6:10
as I've been at a number of
6:10 – 6:11
conferences this winter, people
6:11 – 6:12
ask me to talk about
6:13 – 6:14
agricultural economics and the
6:14 – 6:15
history of agricultural
6:15 – 6:17
economics and how we got to this
6:17 – 6:18
place.
6:18 – 6:20
we recognize we were in a very
6:20 – 6:21
different place 70 or 80 years
6:21 – 6:22
ago. How do we get,
6:22 – 6:25
first of all, reminding us what
6:25 – 6:26
that used to look like
6:27 – 6:28
and bringing
6:29 – 6:30
it flash forward to today.
6:30 – 6:31
You know,
6:31 – 6:33
my grandfather served as a
6:33 – 6:34
conscientious objector during
6:34 – 6:35
the Second World War
6:35 – 6:37
and he came home at the end of
6:37 – 6:38
the war.
6:38 – 6:40
He was 28 years old.
6:40 – 6:41
He married,
6:41 – 6:42
got married,
6:42 – 6:43
bought a farm,
6:43 – 6:45
paid for it in four years.
6:45 – 6:46
Wow.
6:47 – 6:48
And you go back and
6:48 – 6:50
look at the history and there
6:50 – 6:50
was this entire era,
6:51 – 6:52
late 40s, 50s,
6:53 – 6:53
60s,
6:54 – 6:55
many farms were paid for in a
6:55 – 6:57
five to seven year time period,
6:57 – 6:58
depending on where you were in
6:58 – 6:59
the country and what crops you
6:59 – 7:00
were growing and so forth.
7:01 – 7:02
And the
7:03 – 7:04
challenge that I've, I really
7:04 – 7:06
liked the framing of a question
7:06 – 7:07
that Peter Thiel often asks
7:07 – 7:08
investee companies,
7:10 – 7:11
you have a 10 year goal.
7:13 – 7:15
If you had to achieve the 10
7:15 – 7:16
year goal in six months, how
7:16 – 7:17
would you do it?
7:18 – 7:19
And it's a fascinating question
7:19 – 7:20
because
7:21 – 7:23
You can't achieve a 10 -year
7:23 – 7:24
goal in six months by going
7:24 – 7:25
faster or
7:25 – 7:26
by going harder.
7:27 – 7:28
You have to do something
7:28 – 7:28
different.
7:29 – 7:29
Exactly.
7:30 – 7:30
And
7:30 – 7:32
so the challenging question I've
7:32 – 7:35
been asking people and when I'm
7:35 – 7:36
asked to talk about this topic
7:36 – 7:38
is, if you had to pay for your
7:38 – 7:40
farm in five to seven years, how
7:40 – 7:41
would you do it?
7:42 – 7:43
Because I personally believe,
7:44 – 7:44
well, I don't believe,
7:45 – 7:46
I've got lots of evidence that
7:46 – 7:47
it is still possible.
7:47 – 7:49
I know many people who are
7:49 – 7:50
producing revenue and
7:50 – 7:52
profitability to that extent,
7:53 – 7:54
but they're not doing it on
7:54 – 7:55
commodity crops, obviously.
8:01 – 8:02
Yeah.
8:02 – 8:03
Those are good questions.
8:04 – 8:04
I'm going to think about the
8:04 – 8:05
Teal question.
8:08 – 8:09
You know,
8:10 – 8:11
for us, it wasn't
8:13 – 8:15
a Peter Teal asking us, it was
8:15 – 8:16
the club over the head.
8:18 – 8:19
You know, it was survive or die.
8:20 – 8:21
And if you're going to survive,
8:21 – 8:22
you had to be innovators.
8:22 – 8:23
You had to be you had to make
8:23 – 8:25
the right choices and innovate.
8:26 – 8:27
And, you know, and you had to be
8:27 – 8:29
willing to make mistakes because
8:29 – 8:31
there is far more mistakes and
8:32 – 8:33
then
8:33 – 8:35
positive features which created
8:35 – 8:37
profitability ultimately.
8:39 – 8:40
So it is a tough place.
8:41 – 8:42
And, you know, I was talking
8:42 – 8:43
about a
8:44 – 8:45
good friend of mine.
8:45 – 8:47
He worked on our ranch for 10
8:47 – 8:49
years. And, you know, he was
8:49 – 8:50
always listening to stuff like
8:50 – 8:52
Peter Thiel. He was always
8:52 – 8:52
listening to
8:54 – 8:55
David Ramsey,
8:55 – 8:58
small business creation and
8:58 – 9:01
creating passive income streams.
9:01 – 9:02
So you can go over here and
9:02 – 9:05
create a new business and he's
9:05 – 9:07
possibly selling that business,
9:07 – 9:08
creating a new business over
9:08 – 9:09
here.
9:09 – 9:10
He's really into small business.
9:11 – 9:12
And I'm
9:14 – 9:15
just wondering about it because
9:15 – 9:16
I was talking to him the other
9:16 – 9:18
day and he's really struggling.
9:18 – 9:20
He bought a small processing
9:20 – 9:21
plant here
9:22 – 9:23
in Idaho and he processes
9:23 – 9:24
chickens. He's doing a great
9:24 – 9:25
job.
9:25 – 9:27
But I could tell just by talking
9:27 – 9:28
to him, you know, he's been at
9:28 – 9:30
this now for 10 or 12 years.
9:30 – 9:31
He's struggling for cash.
9:34 – 9:35
And I'm wondering what,
9:36 – 9:36
you know, with all that
9:36 – 9:37
knowledge he had, and I know he
9:37 – 9:39
still invests in a lot of time,
9:39 – 9:41
you know, he listens to a lot of
9:41 – 9:42
podcasts. He reads a lot of
9:42 – 9:43
books.
9:43 – 9:44
You know, he's got the business
9:44 – 9:45
hacks, John. You know, he's
9:47 – 9:49
and I thought I said to my wife,
9:49 – 9:50
Carol, I said, so I
9:51 – 9:52
think he's got all the right
9:52 – 9:53
ideas. He's thinking right.
9:54 – 9:55
But is it that
9:56 – 9:58
he still is in the business of
9:58 – 9:59
cheap food
10:00 – 10:02
and trying to add value to an
10:02 – 10:03
already cheap
10:07 – 10:08
product that people aren't used
10:08 – 10:09
to paying more for?
10:09 – 10:10
I mean, think of chicken.
10:11 – 10:13
You can go to Costco and you can
10:13 – 10:14
get a whole chicken for like $2.
10:15 – 10:17
You know, that's already cooked,
10:17 – 10:18
you know, winter on sale.
10:18 – 10:20
You can walk out of Costco or a
10:20 – 10:21
lot of grocery stores and get a
10:21 – 10:22
broasted chicken
10:23 – 10:24
that they've prepared for you.
10:24 – 10:25
They've seasoned it, they've
10:25 – 10:26
done everything.
10:27 – 10:28
You can haul it out of there for
10:28 – 10:29
a few dollars.
10:30 – 10:31
And when we were selling
10:31 – 10:32
chicken, we used to have a
10:32 – 10:34
broiler program on our ranch, a
10:34 – 10:36
pastured poultry operation, kind
10:36 – 10:38
of a la Joel Salatin, you know,
10:38 – 10:40
and we were raising not that
10:40 – 10:41
many, you know, it was like 600
10:41 – 10:42
birds a year.
10:44 – 10:45
John, I couldn't make a pencil
10:45 – 10:47
for less than $25 a whole
10:47 – 10:48
broiler.
10:48 – 10:50
I could not make it work for
10:50 – 10:51
less than $25. To put that in a
10:51 – 10:53
box and ship it all across the
10:53 – 10:54
country,
10:54 – 10:55
maintain a web store, keep the
10:55 – 10:57
dry ice flowing, have the
10:57 – 10:58
employees stuff it in a box,
10:59 – 10:59
get the insulation,
11:00 – 11:02
maintain a freezer, maintain all
11:02 – 11:02
those infrastructures.
11:03 – 11:05
I couldn't make it work for less
11:05 – 11:06
than $25.
11:06 – 11:07
And we sold out.
11:08 – 11:09
We sold out. But yet,
11:10 – 11:12
right across the street, you
11:12 – 11:12
know, figuratively,
11:13 – 11:15
you have this ability for
11:15 – 11:16
somebody to buy a chicken for
11:16 – 11:17
three bucks.
11:18 – 11:20
This story is the perfect
11:20 – 11:21
encapsulation of
11:22 – 11:25
the last 80 years of our cheap
11:25 – 11:26
food policy.
11:26 – 11:27
And actually, you know, what
11:27 – 11:28
makes it an even better contrast
11:28 – 11:30
Clinton is the story of cheap
11:30 – 11:32
chicken versus your grass fed
11:32 – 11:33
steak.
11:34 – 11:37
It's a complete inversion of
11:37 – 11:39
the reality that used to exist
11:39 – 11:41
prior to about 1950's or
11:41 – 11:42
thereabouts.
11:42 – 11:43
Yes.
11:43 – 11:44
I
11:44 – 11:46
think I may have first heard
11:46 – 11:47
this from Joel,
11:48 – 11:51
but he spoke about and I
11:51 – 11:52
read the history as well.
11:53 – 11:55
Franklin Roosevelt's second
11:55 – 11:57
presidential campaign slogan
11:58 – 12:00
was a chicken in every pot.
12:00 – 12:01
It was.
12:02 – 12:03
Yep.
12:02 – 12:04
Because at the time, chicken was
12:04 – 12:05
the expensive meat,
12:06 – 12:07
beef was cheap,
12:07 – 12:09
because beef could be pre -grown
12:09 – 12:10
on grass and on rangeland.
12:11 – 12:12
Chicken required grain.
12:13 – 12:13
Right.
12:13 – 12:15
And so that was the beginning
12:15 – 12:16
of
12:17 – 12:19
the federal level of a cheap
12:19 – 12:20
food policy.
12:20 – 12:23
And it was the beginning of
12:23 – 12:24
significant incentivization of
12:24 – 12:27
grain production and this entire
12:27 – 12:29
system, which has now developed
12:29 – 12:31
all of these tremendous societal
12:31 – 12:32
externalities,
12:33 – 12:35
the public health costs, the
12:35 – 12:36
subsidies. You know,
12:37 – 12:38
what is intriguing to me
12:39 – 12:41
is looking at,
12:43 – 12:44
I've now been in agriculture.
12:45 – 12:46
I'm half your age.
12:47 – 12:48
I've been around and paying
12:48 – 12:49
attention for about 20 years.
12:51 – 12:52
I don't know how many farmers
12:52 – 12:54
are really paying attention and
12:54 – 12:55
are really aware,
12:56 – 12:59
but the public perception of
12:59 – 13:00
farmers
13:00 – 13:02
used to be,
13:02 – 13:04
if you looked at consumer trust
13:04 – 13:05
index,
13:05 – 13:07
it was farmers were trusted at
13:07 – 13:08
the top levels, right?
13:09 – 13:09
Along with the clergy.
13:10 – 13:11
Yes.
13:11 – 13:12
And they are sliding fast
13:13 – 13:15
because they are being perceived
13:15 – 13:16
as
13:16 – 13:18
Welfare recipients, they are
13:18 – 13:19
dependent on welfare.
13:20 – 13:22
Now, you can make the argument
13:22 – 13:24
that a large degree of that has
13:24 – 13:26
been deliberately created policy
13:26 – 13:28
created that people have been
13:28 – 13:29
farmers and producers have been
13:29 – 13:30
guided
13:30 – 13:31
this pathway by federal policy.
13:31 – 13:32
I think you could make an
13:32 – 13:34
argument for that, but it
13:34 – 13:35
doesn't change the reality of
13:35 – 13:36
what currently exists.
13:38 – 13:39
It doesn't. I think the other
13:39 – 13:40
part of it too, though, John, is
13:40 – 13:41
that
13:43 – 13:44
for
13:45 – 13:47
us, one of the standing
13:47 – 13:48
principles on
13:48 – 13:50
the whole direct market paradigm
13:50 – 13:52
for us is we need to establish
13:52 – 13:53
customers that know, love and
13:53 – 13:54
trust us.
13:56 – 13:58
And we need to know, love, and
13:58 – 13:59
trust them as well.
13:59 – 14:01
It's a mutual. It goes both
14:01 – 14:01
ways.
14:01 – 14:02
And I
14:02 – 14:03
think that
14:06 – 14:08
because of the commodification
14:08 – 14:09
of the food system,
14:09 – 14:12
there is no knowledge, there's
14:12 – 14:13
no loving, and there's no
14:13 – 14:14
trusting.
14:16 – 14:18
There's no association.
14:18 – 14:21
And we have the stereotypes of
14:21 – 14:22
we think milk comes from the
14:22 – 14:23
grocery store. We think meat
14:23 – 14:24
comes from the grocery store.
14:24 – 14:28
Those things may or may not be
14:28 – 14:28
true.
14:29 – 14:30
But the fact of the matter is
14:30 – 14:32
they do have no knowledge
14:32 – 14:35
of the land from which I came or
14:35 – 14:36
the family from which I came.
14:37 – 14:38
So it isn't only,
14:38 – 14:40
you know, I think not everybody
14:40 – 14:42
is aware of the subsidization of
14:42 – 14:44
the thing, but they are totally
14:44 – 14:47
aware that they have no idea, no
14:47 – 14:49
idea whether this state came
14:49 – 14:50
from Brazil.
14:50 – 14:52
or Argentina, Paraguay,
14:53 – 14:54
Australia,
14:54 – 14:56
or maybe a United States
14:56 – 14:57
feedlot.
14:57 – 14:58
And the perception of feedlots
14:58 – 15:00
itself is a toxic thing for a
15:00 – 15:01
lot of people.
15:01 – 15:02
They've seen it.
15:02 – 15:03
you know, you can't hide a
15:03 – 15:04
feedlot,
15:04 – 15:05
you know, nicely,
15:05 – 15:06
most of them are in Kansas.
15:07 – 15:08
And you only need to experience
15:08 – 15:10
them once to develop an opinion.
15:10 – 15:12
One time, one time, like, and
15:12 – 15:13
that's actually what got us off
15:13 – 15:15
the commodity train.
15:15 – 15:16
It was that one day in Kansas,
15:16 – 15:19
we're traveling west on I -70,
15:19 – 15:21
and it's pouring down rain,
15:22 – 15:24
and we're driving an old Chevy
15:24 – 15:25
Suburban, we're we just came
15:25 – 15:27
from our Carol's
15:28 – 15:29
folks,
15:29 – 15:31
my in -laws in Indiana.
15:31 – 15:32
We helped them with corn harvest
15:32 – 15:33
every year.
15:34 – 15:35
And before that, we just loaded
15:35 – 15:37
our calves on a truck, our calf
15:37 – 15:38
crop, you know, it was about 200
15:38 – 15:39
calves, two semi loads.
15:40 – 15:42
We sent them off and my kids
15:42 – 15:43
helped me and it was all
15:43 – 15:45
wonderful. And you know, we
15:45 – 15:47
raise those calves through the
15:47 – 15:49
season and put them on the range
15:49 – 15:50
and put them on some of the best
15:50 – 15:51
grass on earth and raise these
15:51 – 15:52
super healthy calves and we're
15:52 – 15:54
going through Candace on I -70
15:54 – 15:55
and it's pouring.
15:58 – 15:59
And my daughter says to me,
16:00 – 16:00
dad,
16:01 – 16:02
yeah, honey,
16:04 – 16:05
what is that smell?
16:07 – 16:08
What is that smell?
16:08 – 16:10
It's horrible. And I said, well,
16:10 – 16:11
don't open your window, but
16:11 – 16:12
we're passing a big feedlot
16:12 – 16:13
right now.
16:13 – 16:14
And she said,
16:14 – 16:16
you mean where they feed
16:16 – 16:18
calves? I said, yeah, yeah.
16:19 – 16:20
And she said, can I just roll
16:20 – 16:21
down my window for a second?
16:22 – 16:23
I said, well, it's just going to
16:23 – 16:24
make the smell worse.
16:24 – 16:25
And she said, I'm not trying to
16:25 – 16:26
deal with the smell.
16:26 – 16:27
I just want to look and see
16:28 – 16:29
because, you know, the windows
16:29 – 16:30
are rain streaked.
16:30 – 16:32
And I said, sure, go for it.
16:34 – 16:35
She rolls down the window and
16:35 – 16:36
she just stares out there.
16:37 – 16:38
And this is one of these deals.
16:39 – 16:40
They must be feeding like 70
16:40 – 16:42
,000 head or 100 ,000 head or
16:42 – 16:43
something done.
16:44 – 16:45
And it was unforgettable because
16:45 – 16:46
it had been pouring down rain
16:46 – 16:48
there apparently for a couple of
16:48 – 16:50
days. And there's these calves
16:50 – 16:51
out there and they're literally
16:51 – 16:52
belly deep in mud.
16:53 – 16:54
just belly deep in fecal mud.
16:54 – 16:56
And my daughter is smart enough
16:56 – 16:57
to know that it's fecal mud.
16:57 – 16:59
You know, obviously we can smell
16:59 – 17:00
it. And, and
17:01 – 17:02
she just stares out the window
17:02 – 17:03
for a while. And then I hear a
17:03 – 17:04
roll up the window.
17:04 – 17:05
We
17:05 – 17:07
drive for a while, another few
17:07 – 17:08
miles.
17:08 – 17:08
And
17:10 – 17:11
she says, Dad,
17:14 – 17:15
are our calves in there?
17:18 – 17:19
And I said, no, they're not.
17:19 – 17:21
And she said, you told me they
17:21 – 17:22
went to Kansas.
17:22 – 17:24
I said, yeah, but there's many
17:24 – 17:25
of these things in Kansas.
17:25 – 17:27
And she said, so our calves
17:27 – 17:28
could be in
17:29 – 17:30
a situation just like those
17:30 – 17:31
calves.
17:32 – 17:34
I said, yeah, they could be.
17:34 – 17:35
I can't lie to you.
17:37 – 17:39
And I just turned to my wife and
17:39 – 17:40
her eyes were already there.
17:41 – 17:43
I'm looking at her and her eyes
17:43 – 17:44
are already there waiting.
17:46 – 17:48
And I said to her, never again,
17:50 – 17:51
never again.
17:51 – 17:53
So people have that kind of
17:53 – 17:54
imagery in a lot of their minds.
17:55 – 17:56
Maybe they haven't seen it as
17:56 – 17:57
bad as we have,
17:58 – 18:00
but this visceral
18:01 – 18:04
animal husbandry feeling that
18:04 – 18:06
some of us have, cattle like
18:06 – 18:07
that in a situation of
18:07 – 18:08
confinement,
18:10 – 18:12
especially those of us who've
18:12 – 18:13
been around cattle, I mean, it
18:13 – 18:14
pulls the trigger.
18:14 – 18:16
So it's pretty complicated, but
18:16 – 18:16
I do
18:17 – 18:18
believe that
18:19 – 18:21
people don't trust people
18:22 – 18:23
in agriculture anymore.
18:24 – 18:25
And this this is why this
18:25 – 18:27
thing's happening right now, I
18:27 – 18:27
think, you know,
18:28 – 18:30
Trump says these things that,
18:31 – 18:31
you know, hey, we're going to
18:31 – 18:32
lower beef prices.
18:33 – 18:33
And you know what?
18:34 – 18:35
My neighbors
18:35 – 18:37
hate that.
18:37 – 18:39
They hate that because they feel
18:39 – 18:41
like for once in their lives,
18:41 – 18:42
their cow -calf operations are
18:42 – 18:44
finally in
18:44 – 18:46
the black, finally in the black,
18:46 – 18:47
you know, after years and years
18:47 – 18:48
of waiting.
18:48 – 18:49
I think Jim Garris
18:50 – 18:53
told me once that 1972 was the
18:53 – 18:54
last time this happened.
18:54 – 18:55
and cattle prices weren't, you
18:55 – 18:56
know, they weren't around four
18:56 – 18:57
bucks,
18:57 – 18:58
but everything else was super
18:58 – 19:00
low. You could buy a pickup for
19:00 – 19:01
what, $2 ,000 or something like
19:01 – 19:03
that. Labor was, you know,
19:03 – 19:05
in the single digits, like
19:05 – 19:06
around one to $2.
19:07 – 19:08
So all things put equal,
19:09 – 19:10
Jim was like, no, this happened
19:10 – 19:11
before. It was in 1972.
19:13 – 19:14
So meanwhile,
19:15 – 19:16
you know, we waited,
19:16 – 19:19
what is that, 50 years, 53 years
19:19 – 19:20
since that
19:20 – 19:22
time for it to happen again.
19:22 – 19:23
Here we are.
19:23 – 19:25
And my neighbors are going crazy
19:25 – 19:26
when Trump says we're going to
19:26 – 19:27
lower beef prices,
19:27 – 19:29
because they feel like for once
19:29 – 19:31
in their lifetime, after 50
19:31 – 19:32
years, they're finally, finally
19:33 – 19:34
a little bit in the black.
19:35 – 19:35
They're a little bit in the
19:35 – 19:37
black. They're not harvesting
19:37 – 19:38
their equity anymore.
19:39 – 19:40
You know, they're not increasing
19:40 – 19:41
their size or credit line based
19:41 – 19:44
on equity increase because all
19:44 – 19:45
agricultural land in the country
19:45 – 19:47
is increasing in equity value.
19:47 – 19:48
So these bankers, they love it
19:48 – 19:49
and say, hey,
19:49 – 19:51
we could give you a higher
19:51 – 19:51
operating.
19:53 – 19:54
because your equity's improved.
19:54 – 19:55
You're doing a great job.
19:56 – 19:57
Your equity's improved, even
19:57 – 19:58
though they have nothing to do
19:58 – 19:59
with it, John. You know what I
19:59 – 20:00
mean?
20:00 – 20:00
Yeah.
20:00 – 20:01
I mean, it's because, you know,
20:01 – 20:02
farmland appreciation for us,
20:02 – 20:03
it's recreational value
20:03 – 20:04
appreciation. We live in a
20:04 – 20:05
beautiful country, you know,
20:06 – 20:08
just big mountains and snowy
20:08 – 20:11
crested mountain vistas with
20:11 – 20:12
green grass underneath and
20:12 – 20:13
people love it.
20:13 – 20:14
And they they're willing to
20:14 – 20:15
spend a ton of money for it.
20:15 – 20:17
And so as a result, land
20:17 – 20:18
appreciation is just
20:18 – 20:19
exponential.
20:19 – 20:21
And these bankers say, hey, we
20:21 – 20:22
love your equity position.
20:22 – 20:23
Do you want more money?
20:25 – 20:26
That was what precipitated the
20:26 – 20:29
1980s farm crisis is getting
20:29 – 20:31
farmers and getting farmers
20:31 – 20:32
comfortable with increased
20:32 – 20:33
credit.
20:33 – 20:34
No.
20:33 – 20:35
And I remember, John,
20:35 – 20:37
you know, neighbors, Carol's
20:37 – 20:38
neighbors had airplanes.
20:39 – 20:41
These guys grew corn and beans.
20:41 – 20:42
They had airplanes.
20:42 – 20:43
They bought airplanes because
20:44 – 20:44
they could they
20:45 – 20:46
could they could just borrow the
20:46 – 20:46
money.
20:47 – 20:49
and, you know, corn was okay,
20:50 – 20:51
and they could buy airplanes.
20:51 – 20:52
It was an exciting time,
20:53 – 20:54
but it wasn't in just a little
20:54 – 20:55
bit.
20:55 – 20:56
There's another contributing
20:56 – 20:59
factor to a rapid erosion of
20:59 – 20:59
trust of agriculture.
21:01 – 21:02
And this is a very controversial
21:02 – 21:04
topic. But since we are
21:04 – 21:06
embracing controversial topics,
21:06 – 21:07
I'll just rip the can off,
21:08 – 21:09
rip the lid off the can of
21:09 – 21:09
worms.
21:10 – 21:13
And that is the recent issue
21:13 – 21:14
around glyphosate
21:15 – 21:17
and Trump's executive order
21:17 – 21:19
around glyphosate supplies.
21:19 – 21:20
Now you can have lots of
21:20 – 21:21
conversations about
21:22 – 21:24
the incentives around that and
21:24 – 21:25
how that all came to be.
21:26 – 21:27
But the reality is,
21:29 – 21:29
Maha,
21:30 – 21:31
people who care about public
21:31 – 21:32
health,
21:33 – 21:34
the people who are awake and are
21:34 – 21:35
paying attention, and there are
21:35 – 21:37
tens of millions of them more
21:37 – 21:39
today than there were five years
21:39 – 21:40
ago,
21:40 – 21:41
are ticked.
21:43 – 21:45
They are ticked and they go on
21:45 – 21:47
social media and say that they
21:47 – 21:49
see farmers universally
21:49 – 21:51
defending the use of glyphosate
21:54 – 21:54
and
21:55 – 21:57
not defending the use of
21:57 – 21:58
glyphosate. That's not quite the
21:58 – 21:59
right framing,
21:59 – 22:01
but in complete denial that
22:01 – 22:03
glyphosate has any human health
22:03 – 22:04
impacts.
22:06 – 22:07
And so there
22:07 – 22:08
isn't
22:08 – 22:11
the polarities are so opposed
22:11 – 22:14
and so far apart from each
22:14 – 22:14
other.
22:15 – 22:17
that it's difficult to have even
22:17 – 22:19
a reasoned conversation to say,
22:19 – 22:21
yes, we understand that
22:21 – 22:22
agriculture today is
22:23 – 22:25
in a spot of dependency, and
22:25 – 22:26
that there is a need for
22:26 – 22:27
transition.
22:27 – 22:29
But also, we shouldn't deny the
22:29 – 22:31
fact that there are human health
22:31 – 22:32
implications.
22:33 – 22:34
Because and
22:34 – 22:36
anyway,
22:36 – 22:37
it's that that whole
22:37 – 22:38
conversation,
22:39 – 22:40
you
22:41 – 22:42
know, reminds me reminds me of a
22:42 – 22:43
quote from Charlie Munger,
22:46 – 22:47
Charlie said,
22:47 – 22:48
something to the effect of you
22:48 – 22:50
have no right to have an opinion
22:51 – 22:53
unless you can articulate the
22:53 – 22:54
opposing point of view better
22:54 – 22:55
than the opposition
22:57 – 22:59
and yeah and i think
23:00 – 23:01
if
23:02 – 23:05
consumers were able and they
23:05 – 23:06
have the experience, the
23:06 – 23:08
context, many of them, but if
23:08 – 23:09
they were able to walk a mile in
23:09 – 23:11
the footsteps of a farmer, they
23:11 – 23:12
would have more sympathy for the
23:12 – 23:14
dependency on glyphosate that
23:14 – 23:15
many growers have and vice
23:15 – 23:16
versa.
23:16 – 23:18
If farmers were willing to
23:18 – 23:20
authentically without bias,
23:20 – 23:22
actually look at the real data
23:22 – 23:24
that is published in the peer
23:24 – 23:25
reviewed literature.
23:24 – 23:25
I mean,
23:25 – 23:26
there's a simple reality.
23:26 – 23:28
Why, why does
23:29 – 23:30
Bayer keep losing lawsuits?
23:31 – 23:32
It's pretty clear.
23:32 – 23:33
Yeah.
23:33 – 23:36
If there were clearly no
23:36 – 23:37
evidence for glyphosate causing
23:37 – 23:38
harm, then Bayer would never
23:38 – 23:39
lose.
23:39 – 23:41
Yeah, or why do
23:41 – 23:43
those same companies try
23:44 – 23:45
to set up legislative
23:45 – 23:46
protection?
23:47 – 23:48
You know, we've had a bill in
23:48 – 23:50
our state in Idaho that failed,
23:50 – 23:51
thankfully, for legislative
23:51 – 23:52
protection.
23:52 – 23:54
You can't sue these companies
23:55 – 23:58
for glyphosate claims, you know,
23:58 – 23:59
as regarding human health.
24:00 – 24:02
So, I mean, that to me is very
24:02 – 24:03
clear that they must see
24:04 – 24:06
An issue here. Well, that is an
24:06 – 24:07
aspect. That's another
24:07 – 24:08
consideration of farmers
24:08 – 24:10
destroying public trust is
24:10 – 24:11
because they're not even willing
24:11 – 24:13
that they have this inherent
24:13 – 24:14
bias because they feel that it's
24:14 – 24:15
dependency.
24:15 – 24:16
And so they're not even willing
24:16 – 24:18
to consider the opposing point
24:18 – 24:20
of view and actually look at
24:20 – 24:23
the raw source information and
24:23 – 24:24
develop their own unbiased.
24:24 – 24:26
Right. And the consumers are
24:26 – 24:27
seeing this. They're seeing
24:27 – 24:28
farmers trying
24:30 – 24:31
to get these bills sponsored.
24:32 – 24:33
They're the ones who are doing
24:33 – 24:34
it.
24:34 – 24:35
You know, they're, you know,
24:35 – 24:37
actually lackeys.
24:38 – 24:40
You know why they are out there
24:40 – 24:41
by the chemical companies?
24:42 – 24:44
Because companies are not
24:44 – 24:46
stupid. And they know that
24:46 – 24:48
farmers historically have rated
24:48 – 24:49
extremely high on the consumer
24:49 – 24:51
trust index. Yes, rated right up
24:51 – 24:52
there with clergy.
24:52 – 24:54
So if you're a pharmaceutical
24:54 – 24:55
company, or if you're an
24:55 – 24:57
agribusiness company, who better
24:57 – 24:58
to get to represent your
24:58 – 24:59
interests than farmers?
25:00 – 25:01
persuade them that it is in
25:01 – 25:02
their best interest to represent
25:02 – 25:03
you?
25:03 – 25:04
Yeah, Idaho is still pretty
25:04 – 25:07
rural state. In fact, a lot of
25:07 – 25:08
the legislators who
25:10 – 25:11
are trying to promote that
25:11 – 25:12
legislation were
25:12 – 25:13
farmers.
25:13 – 25:15
I mean, the people in
25:15 – 25:17
the Senate, you know, state
25:17 – 25:18
congressionals, they are
25:18 – 25:20
farmers. I know these guys
25:20 – 25:20
personally.
25:20 – 25:22
They're the ones pushing for
25:22 – 25:23
this bill
25:23 – 25:25
of legislative protection of
25:25 – 25:26
immunity.
25:26 – 25:27
for these companies.
25:27 – 25:29
And you got non -Hodgkin's
25:29 – 25:30
lymphoma over here.
25:30 – 25:32
And it's like, yes, this is
25:32 – 25:32
really happening.
25:33 – 25:35
It's been tried and true and
25:35 – 25:36
tested in courtroom over and
25:36 – 25:37
over again.
25:37 – 25:38
And there's a whole bunch of
25:38 – 25:39
settlements that have already
25:39 – 25:40
occurred.
25:41 – 25:42
And it's like, what are we even
25:42 – 25:43
doing here? Why can't we even
25:43 – 25:44
ask the question?
25:44 – 25:46
That's what I want to ask is,
25:46 – 25:47
why can't we even ask the
25:47 – 25:48
question
25:49 – 25:52
about why can't we wait and
25:53 – 25:54
see what science says about
25:54 – 25:55
this?
25:55 – 25:57
Why do
25:57 – 26:00
we even want to gamble
26:00 – 26:01
human
26:01 – 26:02
health here?
26:03 – 26:05
Why would we just say, oh, wait,
26:06 – 26:07
we trust these companies.
26:08 – 26:09
The non -Hodgkin's lymphoma
26:09 – 26:12
suits are invalid.
26:13 – 26:14
We're going to disregard them.
26:14 – 26:15
But why not say, hey, wait,
26:16 – 26:17
this might be a human health
26:17 – 26:19
issue. Let's check it out first.
26:20 – 26:22
And instead, we've gone the
26:22 – 26:23
opposite direction.
26:24 – 26:25
No, that,
26:25 – 26:27
you know, I'm actually involved
26:27 – 26:28
with some of the Maha stuff.
26:28 – 26:30
And right now I can't even sort
26:30 – 26:31
out what
26:32 – 26:33
side people are on.
26:35 – 26:36
Because, you know, on one hand,
26:36 – 26:37
you know, from the farmer's
26:37 – 26:38
side, like I said, I, you know,
26:38 – 26:40
I have relatives in the corn and
26:40 – 26:41
beans,
26:40 – 26:42
corn and bean business who
26:42 – 26:43
depend on glyphosate.
26:43 – 26:44
They got Roundup Ready corn,
26:45 – 26:46
they got Roundup Ready beans,
26:46 – 26:47
you know, when they're doing an
26:47 – 26:49
off crop like alfalfa, they got
26:49 – 26:51
Roundup Ready alfalfa.
26:51 – 26:54
And their whole infrastructure
26:55 – 26:56
been built around this one
26:56 – 26:57
chemical.
26:58 – 26:59
And so now
27:00 – 27:02
do we just pull the rug out from
27:02 – 27:03
under them and say it's over?
27:03 – 27:04
Hey, the party's over.
27:04 – 27:07
And meanwhile, I don't even know
27:07 – 27:09
what their alternative is.
27:09 – 27:10
Is it going back to atrazine?
27:10 – 27:11
For some people it is.
27:11 – 27:13
Some people are night spraying
27:13 – 27:13
dicamba.
27:14 – 27:15
Some states are legislating
27:15 – 27:16
dicamba.
27:17 – 27:18
So I mean, what are we going to
27:18 – 27:19
do, John? You know, I mean, if
27:19 – 27:21
you jerk the rug out from under
27:21 – 27:22
him, do John Kemp get a whole
27:22 – 27:25
bunch of phone calls about, you
27:25 – 27:27
know, I mean, you know, there's
27:27 – 27:28
no easy answers there.
27:28 – 27:30
No, there are no easy answers.
27:30 – 27:32
And there need to there needs to
27:32 – 27:33
be a transition there.
27:33 – 27:35
It isn't appropriate to do a rug
27:35 – 27:36
pull, as it were.
27:36 – 27:38
And also, it doesn't work to
27:38 – 27:40
ignore the conversation, stick
27:40 – 27:41
our heads in the sand and hope
27:41 – 27:42
it goes away and gets better on
27:42 – 27:43
its own.
27:45 – 27:46
It's not our fault that bear
27:46 – 27:47
bought Montano.
27:50 – 27:51
Might have been a bad
27:51 – 27:52
investment.
27:52 – 27:53
I think they're thinking it
27:53 – 27:54
over.
27:54 – 27:56
So I would truly,
27:56 – 27:58
when I looked at that deal going
27:58 – 27:58
through like,
27:59 – 28:00
who did the due diligence on
28:00 – 28:01
that?
28:01 – 28:03
Who did the due diligence on
28:03 – 28:04
that?
28:04 – 28:05
It's like, who have you been
28:05 – 28:06
talking to? What kind of bubble
28:06 – 28:07
have you been working?
28:10 – 28:10
So anyway,
28:11 – 28:12
I sprayed my share around up,
28:13 – 28:14
you know, when I was a kid with
28:14 – 28:15
- As did I.
28:15 – 28:17
cutoffs on and just pair of work
28:17 – 28:18
boots,
28:18 – 28:20
hot, humid weather, East Coast
28:20 – 28:22
cornfields. We just round up the
28:22 – 28:23
crap out of everything that was
28:23 – 28:24
emergent, you know,
28:25 – 28:26
and I
28:26 – 28:28
drank a fair share.
28:30 – 28:32
Thank God I'm not looking at non
28:32 – 28:33
-Hodgkins, but I do worry about
28:34 – 28:37
it. This is not a worthwhile
28:37 – 28:38
brag, but I think I can one -up
28:38 – 28:40
your story that I sprayed
28:40 – 28:41
Roundup backpack sprayer
28:41 – 28:42
barefoot.
28:43 – 28:44
Oh, barefoot.
28:44 – 28:45
See, I was half naked.
28:45 – 28:46
You had a shirt on.
28:51 – 28:53
No, no, I didn't have a shirt
28:53 – 28:54
on. It was just a pair of cutoff
28:54 – 28:56
jeans and I did have work boots
28:56 – 28:58
on, but I haven't read anything
28:58 – 28:59
that
28:59 – 29:01
absorbent at the foot level is
29:01 – 29:01
anything.
29:03 – 29:04
You got your bare feet in soil,
29:05 – 29:06
I'm hoping. Well, at least dirt.
29:07 – 29:08
Meanwhile,
29:09 – 29:10
I'm just sweating bullets.
29:10 – 29:12
This is 99 % humidity and
29:13 – 29:15
I got fertilizer burned from the
29:15 – 29:16
morning.
29:16 – 29:17
We're hand spreading fertilizer
29:17 – 29:18
in sweet corn fields.
29:19 – 29:20
And wow,
29:20 – 29:22
it was a little bit of burn and
29:22 – 29:24
sizzle. So certainly you and I
29:24 – 29:25
have both been exposed to it.
29:26 – 29:26
Thank God we
29:27 – 29:28
don't have any symptoms yet that
29:28 – 29:29
I know of,
29:30 – 29:30
but we might.
29:31 – 29:33
And the reality is that it was
29:33 – 29:33
ubiquitous.
29:34 – 29:35
We were all using it.
29:35 – 29:36
And still is.
29:37 – 29:38
So Glenn,
29:39 – 29:41
We've been at some point in our
29:41 – 29:42
conversation, I just hit the
29:42 – 29:43
recording button because we've
29:43 – 29:44
just we were in this fun
29:44 – 29:46
conversation. It was it was too
29:46 – 29:47
good to go to waste.
29:48 – 29:49
But,
29:49 – 29:49
you know,
29:50 – 29:52
I I didn't come from the
29:52 – 29:53
ranching side of the world.
29:53 – 29:54
It came from fruit and vegetable
29:54 – 29:55
production, started working with
29:55 – 29:56
a lot of farmers.
29:56 – 29:58
And then I started hearing about
29:58 – 29:59
this interesting character in
29:59 – 30:01
Idaho named Glenn Elzinga.
30:01 – 30:02
Ray Archuleta told me I need to
30:02 – 30:03
reach out and connect with you.
30:03 – 30:06
And then I heard about
30:07 – 30:08
the nutrient density analysis
30:08 – 30:10
results that you got coming out
30:10 – 30:10
of Utah State.
30:11 – 30:12
And
30:11 – 30:13
so
30:14 – 30:16
I thought to myself, you know, I
30:16 – 30:17
got to try these sticks.
30:17 – 30:18
I want to know exactly what this
30:18 – 30:19
looks and what this tastes like
30:19 – 30:20
and what this is.
30:21 – 30:22
Do you know I couldn't get any?
30:24 – 30:25
I do know that.
30:27 – 30:29
It's biweekly, John, there is a
30:29 – 30:31
time when you can get it.
30:31 – 30:33
And it's every every other week.
30:33 – 30:35
And my customers all know when
30:35 – 30:35
to push click.
30:37 – 30:38
And let's see, where are we at
30:38 – 30:39
in the schedule?
30:40 – 30:40
Wednesday,
30:40 – 30:42
Wednesday, they'll be available
30:42 – 30:42
again.
30:42 – 30:44
So they all set their alarms.
30:44 – 30:45
I already know how this works.
30:45 – 30:46
No, they do. They do.
30:46 – 30:48
And also, I sent a tickler.
30:48 – 30:50
I got an email, new subscription
30:50 – 30:52
list of about 12 ,000 people.
30:52 – 30:54
And we send that out twice a
30:54 – 30:56
week. And it coincides with the
30:56 – 30:57
release of new product.
30:59 – 31:00
So and it's not like we're
31:00 – 31:01
stockpiling.
31:01 – 31:03
I mean, we literally sell out
31:03 – 31:04
every two weeks, John.
31:05 – 31:06
And and these people know
31:06 – 31:07
nothing about soil biology.
31:08 – 31:10
They know about flavor.
31:10 – 31:11
But they know about flavor but
31:11 – 31:13
they also know about health.
31:13 – 31:15
And, you know, if I don't know
31:15 – 31:16
how much you
31:16 – 31:19
pride at a Stefan van Vliet you
31:19 – 31:20
had him on the podcast.
31:20 – 31:22
I had him here on the podcast a
31:22 – 31:23
year, a couple years ago maybe
31:23 – 31:24
at this point and yeah he was.
31:27 – 31:28
It was a really landmark study.
31:28 – 31:30
He took 18 of our steers
31:30 – 31:32
directly off the range.
31:32 – 31:33
My daughter and I went up there
31:33 – 31:35
and sorted them out horseback,
31:36 – 31:37
brought them down to some remote
31:37 – 31:38
corrals.
31:38 – 31:40
They went directly to the
31:40 – 31:43
process. And he got a piece of
31:43 – 31:44
pectoralis profundus, which is
31:44 – 31:46
the upper part of the chuck off
31:46 – 31:48
these, actually lower if you're
31:48 – 31:49
an animal,
31:51 – 31:54
and did the same thing with 18
31:54 – 31:55
feedlot animals.
31:55 – 31:57
All Angus beef.
31:57 – 32:00
all basically the same age, you
32:00 – 32:01
know,
32:00 – 32:01
physiologically,
32:02 – 32:03
they were different ages,
32:03 – 32:05
actually, because the grass fed
32:05 – 32:06
our grass fed takes longer.
32:07 – 32:08
I mean, feedlot cattle can die
32:08 – 32:10
in 16 months, right, john.
32:10 – 32:12
And these were probably 25.
32:12 – 32:14
So for equal physiological
32:14 – 32:16
maturity, just because the lower
32:16 – 32:17
average, that's
32:18 – 32:19
where we arrived.
32:18 – 32:20
So basically, same sort of
32:20 – 32:22
cattle, and you know, not
32:22 – 32:24
specifically the exact same
32:24 – 32:25
genetics, but
32:25 – 32:27
genetic Angus, so phenotypically
32:27 – 32:29
they look the same, they're all
32:29 – 32:29
black,
32:30 – 32:33
and he compared those two types
32:33 – 32:36
of cattle in his metabolomics
32:36 – 32:38
lab in Utah State University
32:38 – 32:40
using spectrographic analysis.
32:41 – 32:43
So what's crazy, I had no idea,
32:44 – 32:46
but he picked up 1500 different
32:46 – 32:47
compounds.
32:47 – 32:48
What he did is he made these
32:48 – 32:49
things into patties, put them
32:49 – 32:52
through a meat grinder and put
32:52 – 32:53
these patties in an oven
32:53 – 32:55
and took the interior
32:55 – 32:56
temperature
32:56 – 32:59
of these individual patties to
32:59 – 33:01
170 degrees or 160 degrees.
33:02 – 33:03
It was 71 Celsius.
33:04 – 33:05
So, you know,
33:05 – 33:07
what's crazy about it, John, is
33:07 – 33:09
these things were cooked.
33:09 – 33:11
And normally we associate
33:11 – 33:13
cooking with volatilization,
33:14 – 33:15
caramelization,
33:15 – 33:17
compound change, if not full
33:17 – 33:19
loss due to volatilization and
33:19 – 33:20
denaturing.
33:21 – 33:21
So anyway,
33:21 – 33:23
I'm sure he lost some of the
33:23 – 33:24
complexity there,
33:25 – 33:27
but he wanted to emulate
33:27 – 33:28
something that we would ingest.
33:30 – 33:30
So anyway,
33:31 – 33:33
did a cooking way beyond what
33:33 – 33:34
I'd want. I don't know if you're
33:34 – 33:37
a medium rare guy or a well done
33:37 – 33:39
guy, but you know, 160 degrees
33:39 – 33:40
too hot for me.
33:40 – 33:42
I like to go 138, 139 somewhere
33:42 – 33:44
in there, you know, have a nice
33:44 – 33:46
caramelized exterior, nice, you
33:46 – 33:47
know, pink interior, but he went
33:47 – 33:48
way beyond pink.
33:48 – 33:49
He's going into well done
33:49 – 33:50
country now.
33:51 – 33:52
So anyway, takes these things
33:52 – 33:55
and applies his analyses to it
33:55 – 33:57
and comes up with 1500
33:57 – 34:00
compounds in each of these
34:00 – 34:01
samples.
34:02 – 34:05
18 and 18, 18 from feedlot fed
34:05 – 34:06
DDGs in South Dakota
34:07 – 34:10
and 18 directly from our wild
34:10 – 34:11
ranges. And I got to tell you
34:11 – 34:12
something about the wild ranges,
34:13 – 34:15
John, just so the listeners
34:15 – 34:16
know. I mean, there's
34:17 – 34:19
2200 plant species up there.
34:19 – 34:21
My wife is a PhD botanist.
34:22 – 34:23
She's the plant girl.
34:23 – 34:24
I'm the cow guy.
34:25 – 34:27
And she's evaluated this and
34:27 – 34:28
checked it. There's 2200
34:28 – 34:29
different plants up on this
34:29 – 34:32
rangeland. We run on a 70 square
34:32 – 34:33
mile pasture.
34:35 – 34:37
That's 47 ,000 acres,
34:37 – 34:39
and it's basically wilderness.
34:40 – 34:42
It's extremely wild country.
34:42 – 34:44
A lot of elevation gradient from
34:44 – 34:45
one end to another starts at 4
34:45 – 34:47
,700 feet elevation, goes all
34:47 – 34:49
the way almost up to 10 ,000.
34:49 – 34:51
Alpine tundra at the bottom,
34:52 – 34:52
low desert,
34:53 – 34:54
effective precipitation at two
34:54 – 34:56
to three inches at the bottom of
34:56 – 34:57
that range and a canyon bottom.
34:58 – 34:59
So what that means is with that
34:59 – 35:01
elevation gradient, you have a
35:01 – 35:04
huge, huge vegetative
35:04 – 35:06
ecological gradient as well,
35:06 – 35:07
because you have all these
35:07 – 35:09
different plant communities and
35:09 – 35:11
ecosystems based on elevation,
35:11 – 35:14
rainfall aspect, the direction
35:14 – 35:16
which your health faces,
35:16 – 35:17
soil types,
35:17 – 35:18
all these things where you get
35:18 – 35:20
huge biological diversity.
35:21 – 35:23
So, these cattle don't eat at
35:23 – 35:23
all.
35:23 – 35:25
Some are pine trees, some are
35:25 – 35:26
cactus down in the low country.
35:28 – 35:29
You know, there's just things
35:29 – 35:31
that you wouldn't picture a cow
35:31 – 35:32
eating, and you're right in some
35:32 – 35:33
of those. But on the other hand,
35:33 – 35:35
I see these cattle eating up
35:35 – 35:36
there.
35:37 – 35:38
And I'm surprised at what
35:38 – 35:39
they're using a lot of times.
35:39 – 35:41
And it's all because,
35:42 – 35:42
John, they've been given a
35:42 – 35:43
choice.
35:44 – 35:46
So we're on horseback up there
35:47 – 35:49
24 -7. We live with our cattle
35:49 – 35:50
because wolf predation,
35:51 – 35:52
I don't know when you press that
35:52 – 35:54
button, John, but wolf predation
35:54 – 35:55
was one of the clubs that
35:55 – 35:56
smacked us across the side of
35:56 – 35:57
the head.
35:57 – 35:59
We were losing our cattle to
35:59 – 36:00
wolves and it was because we
36:00 – 36:01
were not up there with them.
36:02 – 36:03
And now with human presence on
36:03 – 36:05
the ground, we coexist with
36:05 – 36:06
these wolves and we haven't lost
36:06 – 36:07
anything to wolves now for 12
36:07 – 36:08
years.
36:09 – 36:11
So that's what necessitated our
36:12 – 36:13
on the ground presence.
36:14 – 36:18
So now we see ourselves as a
36:18 – 36:20
long term proponent of Jim
36:20 – 36:23
Garrish and read his book when
36:23 – 36:23
it first came out.
36:23 – 36:25
I think that was the late 80s
36:25 – 36:27
and Management Intensive Grazing
36:27 – 36:28
was the book and I kind of
36:28 – 36:30
absorbed it. started practicing
36:30 – 36:31
it at home with Hotwire.
36:34 – 36:35
And I thought, you know, that
36:35 – 36:37
really can't be something that's
36:37 – 36:39
emulated on our rangeland
36:39 – 36:40
because it's vast.
36:40 – 36:41
You know, it's just an
36:41 – 36:43
incredible amount of country, 49
36:43 – 36:44
,000 acres.
36:45 – 36:46
But then I realized when the
36:46 – 36:48
wolves got after us that because
36:48 – 36:50
we're living with these cattle
36:50 – 36:51
and managing them on horseback,
36:52 – 36:55
that now we could be the grazing
36:55 – 36:56
cell on horseback.
36:58 – 37:00
What's crazy,
37:00 – 37:02
John, is I never really made
37:03 – 37:04
this correlation, but I found
37:04 – 37:05
out
37:05 – 37:06
the principles are the same.
37:08 – 37:09
The principles of growing grass
37:09 – 37:11
and rest periods
37:12 – 37:15
and grazing efficiency and stock
37:15 – 37:16
density,
37:16 – 37:18
all those things are the same
37:18 – 37:20
principles that our irrigated
37:20 – 37:21
ground has. You know, we
37:21 – 37:23
irrigate pivots and we align
37:23 – 37:25
irrigation on about 2000 acres
37:25 – 37:26
at home.
37:26 – 37:27
There we've been practicing
37:27 – 37:29
management intensive grazing and
37:29 – 37:30
multi paddock grazing, whatever
37:30 – 37:31
you want to call it for
37:32 – 37:34
Oh, gosh, it's been ever since
37:34 – 37:35
like 93.
37:36 – 37:37
I've been doing it.
37:37 – 37:39
And so that's, you know, that's
37:39 – 37:40
quite a while. That's over 30
37:40 – 37:41
years that we've been practicing
37:41 – 37:43
that those grazing principles
37:43 – 37:44
and learning them still, we're
37:44 – 37:46
learning them still, I just want
37:46 – 37:48
to say that we never say,
37:49 – 37:49
oh, we've arrived.
37:50 – 37:52
But anyway, on horseback,
37:54 – 37:55
That management intensive
37:55 – 37:56
grazing, that adapted multi
37:56 – 37:58
-padded grazing thing is a
37:58 – 38:00
moving amoeba going across
38:00 – 38:01
landscape.
38:02 – 38:03
And because we know the country
38:03 – 38:04
so well,
38:05 – 38:06
you can ask my daughter,
38:08 – 38:09
Melanie, she's my oldest, she's
38:09 – 38:11
32. She's been a horseback up
38:11 – 38:12
there since she was like seven.
38:15 – 38:16
And John, you could say,
38:16 – 38:17
Melanie, do you remember the big
38:17 – 38:18
Douglas fir tree that's growing
38:18 – 38:20
right next to that big boulder
38:20 – 38:21
that's been split?
38:22 – 38:23
And it's got the lightning
38:23 – 38:24
streak
38:25 – 38:27
the black lightning streak on
38:27 – 38:28
the right hand side.
38:28 – 38:29
If you're looking at the right,
38:29 – 38:29
do you remember that tree?
38:30 – 38:32
And she'll say, yes, it's at the
38:32 – 38:33
head of Park Creek.
38:34 – 38:35
There's 55 miles of Creek up
38:35 – 38:36
there, John.
38:36 – 38:38
And she'll remember this tree.
38:38 – 38:39
I mean, that's,
38:39 – 38:42
that's how much this stuff gets
38:42 – 38:43
under your skin when you're on
38:43 – 38:44
horseback up there with these
38:44 – 38:45
cattle all the time.
38:46 – 38:48
So we know the country and as a
38:48 – 38:49
result, then we can,
38:49 – 38:50
run this thing.
38:50 – 38:52
We've done this with GPS and
38:52 – 38:53
Google Earth as well.
38:54 – 38:55
So, we've, you know, absorbed a
38:55 – 38:57
technological factor to it to
38:57 – 38:59
kind of mirror what's in our
38:59 – 39:01
mind, but in our minds are a
39:01 – 39:01
map.
39:02 – 39:04
And as a result, we've been able
39:04 – 39:06
to manage it so that our average
39:06 – 39:08
grazing return interval is about
39:08 – 39:09
three years on
39:09 – 39:12
any given acre of ground.
39:12 – 39:14
And our average duration of
39:14 – 39:15
grazing with the entire herd of
39:15 – 39:16
four to 500 head
39:18 – 39:19
is three
39:20 – 39:21
minutes.
39:21 – 39:22
Wow.
39:22 – 39:24
I thought you were going to say
39:24 – 39:25
a few hours or half a day.
39:26 – 39:27
No, they're moving all the time.
39:28 – 39:29
They're moving all the time.
39:29 – 39:31
I got this one favorite slide I
39:31 – 39:33
show often at a conference or
39:33 – 39:34
something like that.
39:35 – 39:36
It's Annie,
39:36 – 39:38
my middle -age, my middler
39:38 – 39:40
daughter. She's like 23 right
39:40 – 39:41
now.
39:41 – 39:42
She's on horseback and she
39:42 – 39:44
brings a herd of about 400 head
39:44 – 39:45
of cattle.
39:45 – 39:47
into this Douglas fir stand.
39:47 – 39:49
And it's really a beautiful
39:49 – 39:51
stand because the grass is just
39:51 – 39:52
beautiful.
39:53 – 39:54
It's, you know, I got a before
39:54 – 39:55
picture,
39:55 – 39:57
I'm just sitting on my horse, I
39:57 – 39:58
take a, you know, these phones
39:58 – 39:59
are amazing for these pictures.
40:00 – 40:01
And I take a picture of this.
40:02 – 40:03
And so you're looking at like 10
40:03 – 40:05
inches of
40:05 – 40:07
available forage on the before
40:07 – 40:08
picture.
40:08 – 40:09
And then
40:10 – 40:11
the next picture has Annie in
40:11 – 40:13
it. And she's bringing this 400
40:13 – 40:14
head into that picture into the
40:14 – 40:15
frame.
40:16 – 40:17
And they all get their heads
40:17 – 40:18
down.
40:18 – 40:20
And you can see their walking.
40:20 – 40:21
because they're all oriented in
40:21 – 40:22
the same direction.
40:23 – 40:25
And you know, if you were to
40:25 – 40:26
take pounds of beef per acre
40:26 – 40:28
there, I'd say you're easily a
40:28 – 40:28
quarter million,
40:29 – 40:29
you're probably a quarter
40:29 – 40:31
million pounds of beef per acre.
40:31 – 40:32
So
40:32 – 40:34
anyway, these cows are evidently
40:34 – 40:35
moving because you can see their
40:35 – 40:37
legs are stretched or are all
40:37 – 40:38
oriented in the same direction.
40:38 – 40:39
So anyway, the next picture
40:40 – 40:41
shows nothing.
40:41 – 40:42
There's no cattle.
40:42 – 40:44
There's just trees and grass.
40:44 – 40:45
And there's a residue.
40:45 – 40:46
They're probably probably about
40:46 – 40:47
six inch residual.
40:47 – 40:49
They're still all green.
40:49 – 40:51
And I'll ask the audience how
40:51 – 40:52
much time.
40:54 – 40:55
And John, I get stuff like two
40:55 – 40:56
months.
40:57 – 40:58
I'm like, how is that possible?
40:59 – 41:01
I can't even make that work.
41:02 – 41:04
You know, and it's OK, because
41:04 – 41:06
some people come come a little
41:06 – 41:07
closer and they'll say an hour,
41:07 – 41:08
two hours, you know, and then I
41:08 – 41:10
say three minutes or two and a
41:10 – 41:12
half minutes. It actually was in
41:12 – 41:13
that picture.
41:14 – 41:16
And they're dumbfounded.
41:16 – 41:18
And then I hit him with the rest
41:18 – 41:19
period.
41:18 – 41:20
And it's three years.
41:20 – 41:21
It's three years.
41:21 – 41:22
So anyway,
41:22 – 41:23
the reason why the long rest
41:23 – 41:26
period is because it's rainfall.
41:26 – 41:27
You know, if we're in a high
41:27 – 41:28
rainfall area like where you
41:28 – 41:31
live or artificial rainfall
41:31 – 41:32
areas like under center pivots,
41:32 – 41:34
you know, we've got 30 or 40, 40
41:34 – 41:36
inches equivalent rainfall under
41:36 – 41:37
a center pivot.
41:37 – 41:39
We can return sometimes in 25
41:39 – 41:40
days.
41:40 – 41:41
It just depends whether that
41:41 – 41:42
grass has reached stage three or
41:42 – 41:44
not. And we'll come back, you
41:44 – 41:45
know.
41:45 – 41:46
Um, so anyway,
41:46 – 41:47
you know, it's the same
41:47 – 41:49
principles, but rainfall and
41:49 – 41:50
brittle environments just
41:50 – 41:51
changes the timing.
41:52 – 41:54
So anyway, that's what we're
41:54 – 41:55
practicing up there.
41:55 – 41:56
So I just want to make that
41:56 – 41:59
clear that they're grazing 500
41:59 – 42:00
to a thousand plants in that
42:00 – 42:02
unique environment at home on
42:02 – 42:04
our irrigated pastures.
42:04 – 42:06
They're probably averaging
42:06 – 42:08
pretty much across the board.
42:08 – 42:10
Now they're over 8 % or 8 %
42:10 – 42:11
organic matter.
42:11 – 42:13
They're all certified or 8 %
42:13 – 42:14
organic matter.
42:14 – 42:16
But they're those
42:17 – 42:17
cattle,
42:18 – 42:19
you know, they'll be on that
42:19 – 42:22
piece. And that's got about 80
42:22 – 42:23
species,
42:23 – 42:24
which is pretty good for a
42:24 – 42:25
temperate.
42:25 – 42:26
Yeah,
42:27 – 42:28
you know, and you
42:29 – 42:29
know, I don't want people to get
42:29 – 42:30
hung up on that,
42:31 – 42:32
John, because it's not like I'm
42:32 – 42:33
going to take a square meter
42:33 – 42:34
plot and say, see,
42:35 – 42:36
There's all 80 right here.
42:36 – 42:38
They're right. No, that's not
42:38 – 42:39
true because you have all
42:39 – 42:40
profile changes.
42:40 – 42:41
So this is like on a 200 acre
42:41 – 42:43
pasture next to our house that
42:43 – 42:44
my wife and I did a plant list.
42:45 – 42:47
But it doesn't matter if they're
42:47 – 42:48
on the same square meter.
42:48 – 42:51
What matters is over the grazing
42:51 – 42:52
interval,
42:52 – 42:53
over that grazing rotation,
42:53 – 42:54
you're going to pick up all that
42:54 – 42:56
species diversity and all that
42:57 – 42:59
plant compound richness.
43:00 – 43:01
And so it's the plant compound
43:01 – 43:02
richness that Stefan, coming
43:02 – 43:04
back to Utah State,
43:04 – 43:05
found interesting.
43:05 – 43:07
Fifteen hundred different
43:07 – 43:10
plant compounds identified in
43:10 – 43:11
both of
43:13 – 43:14
these types of animals,
43:14 – 43:17
the DDG animals and our wild
43:17 – 43:18
grassland animals.
43:19 – 43:20
And he found, I think it was,
43:21 – 43:23
I think it was 1525 and then 907
43:23 – 43:24
of
43:25 – 43:28
those compounds were unique in
43:28 – 43:30
terms of the differences in
43:30 – 43:31
concentration. They were marked,
43:32 – 43:33
marking differences.
43:33 – 43:35
And so the best thing about it,
43:35 – 43:36
the most exciting thing about it
43:36 – 43:37
was that the
43:40 – 43:41
chemicals that he discovered
43:41 – 43:43
that were quite a bit higher
43:44 – 43:46
in our beef,
43:47 – 43:48
we're the ones we like to hear
43:48 – 43:49
about.
43:49 – 43:51
They're the ones that are anti
43:51 – 43:52
-inflammatory.
43:53 – 43:54
They're the ones that are anti
43:54 – 43:55
-microbial. They're the ones
43:55 – 43:57
that are antioxidant.
43:58 – 43:59
Some of these antioxidants were
43:59 – 44:00
three times higher.
44:01 – 44:03
There's some really esoteric
44:03 – 44:03
names here.
44:03 – 44:04
There's like
44:05 – 44:07
icosapotonic acid
44:08 – 44:10
or docosapotonic acid.
44:10 – 44:12
That's DPA and EPA.
44:12 – 44:14
OK, and we think of conjugated
44:14 – 44:15
linoleic acid,
44:16 – 44:17
you know, that's CLA.
44:17 – 44:18
We think of those in terms of
44:18 – 44:20
acronyms, mostly in terms of
44:20 – 44:20
three letter
44:21 – 44:22
abbreviations.
44:22 – 44:24
But they're key antioxidants.
44:25 – 44:26
And they averaged,
44:27 – 44:28
I think it was four
44:29 – 44:31
to six times higher in
44:31 – 44:34
our beef than the feedlot beef.
44:36 – 44:38
This is perhaps an
44:38 – 44:39
oversimplification.
44:40 – 44:41
People smarter than I.
44:41 – 44:42
might say that it is.
44:44 – 44:46
But as I've looked at what
44:46 – 44:49
does it mean to have nutrient
44:49 – 44:50
density or as I've started
44:50 – 44:51
calling it, nutritional
44:51 – 44:53
integrity, what does it mean to
44:54 – 44:56
for us to consume a healthy
44:56 – 44:58
diet? What really is a healthy
44:58 – 44:58
diet?
44:58 – 44:59
And
44:59 – 45:02
very broadly, there's this whole
45:02 – 45:03
conversation around seed oils
45:03 – 45:04
and on and on the list goes.
45:04 – 45:05
But I think as
45:06 – 45:09
a general broad brushstroke, you
45:09 – 45:10
could
45:10 – 45:12
put things in a pro
45:12 – 45:14
-inflammatory versus anti
45:14 – 45:15
-inflammatory category, it'd be
45:15 – 45:17
pretty much spot on.
45:17 – 45:18
And
45:18 – 45:21
I was intrigued by the research
45:21 – 45:23
work that was done by Blu Blanc
45:23 – 45:24
Coeur in France, Pierre Vail and
45:24 – 45:26
his group of colleagues,
45:26 – 45:28
where they were deliberately
45:28 – 45:31
feeding flax to livestock to
45:31 – 45:33
produce a narrow omega -3 to
45:33 – 45:33
omega -6 ratio.
45:35 – 45:36
And well,
45:36 – 45:37
that raises all kinds of
45:38 – 45:39
questions. They were obviously
45:39 – 45:40
doing some very good things, but
45:40 – 45:41
I also have some reservations
45:41 – 45:42
about the phytoestrogen content
45:42 – 45:43
and some of the implications of
45:43 – 45:44
that. But
45:44 – 45:46
of course it's being processed
45:46 – 45:47
by
45:47 – 45:48
ruminants and that makes a
45:48 – 45:49
significant difference.
45:50 – 45:51
But they are one of the few
45:51 – 45:53
groups that did human
45:53 – 45:55
consumption trials of
45:55 – 45:58
people who were eating animal
45:58 – 45:59
products.
45:58 – 46:02
This was eggs and dairy and beef
46:02 – 46:03
and chicken, and I think perhaps
46:03 – 46:04
pork as well.
46:05 – 46:07
that was fed with flax to have a
46:07 – 46:09
narrow omega -3 to 6 ratio.
46:09 – 46:11
And they found that just that
46:11 – 46:14
simple change of the omega -3, 6
46:14 – 46:16
ratio produced an anti
46:16 – 46:17
-inflammatory effect in the
46:17 – 46:19
human body versus a pro
46:19 – 46:20
-inflammatory effect from
46:20 – 46:22
mainstream grocery store animal
46:22 – 46:23
products.
46:23 – 46:27
And you then layer on all these
46:27 – 46:28
other anti -inflammatory
46:28 – 46:29
compounds that you're
46:29 – 46:29
describing.
46:31 – 46:33
the human health implications
46:33 – 46:35
become very consequential and
46:35 – 46:36
very far -reaching, I think,
46:36 – 46:37
more so than most people
46:37 – 46:39
realize. The reality is we are a
46:39 – 46:42
very inflamed society,
46:42 – 46:44
generally, because of our
46:45 – 46:47
abysmal choices of the things
46:47 – 46:48
that we call food that aren't
46:48 – 46:49
actually food.
46:50 – 46:51
Yeah. And our environment, too,
46:51 – 46:52
John.
46:52 – 46:53
I mean, you're out there
46:53 – 46:54
spraying Roundup, as was I,
46:55 – 46:55
you know.
46:55 – 46:56
And so we have all these
46:56 – 46:58
atmospheric pull -ins we're
46:58 – 46:59
doing. You know, a lot of people
46:59 – 47:01
are drinking water that's fairly
47:01 – 47:03
undrinkable, you know, by
47:03 – 47:04
drinking water standards.
47:04 – 47:06
So we're creating a
47:07 – 47:09
perfect atmosphere for
47:11 – 47:12
free radical formation.
47:13 – 47:13
Yeah.
47:13 – 47:14
You know, so with all these free
47:14 – 47:16
radicals running around, we have
47:16 – 47:17
to we absolutely have to
47:18 – 47:20
have antioxidants in our life to
47:20 – 47:21
maintain life.
47:22 – 47:23
Because otherwise, you know, I
47:23 – 47:24
mean, this this is, you know,
47:24 – 47:25
this is historically.
47:27 – 47:28
Yeah. So, you
47:29 – 47:30
know, the fact you know, when
47:30 – 47:32
Stefan called me, he called me
47:32 – 47:33
one day, he said, I got to tell
47:33 – 47:33
you something.
47:35 – 47:36
This is like the first beef I've
47:36 – 47:37
ever seen
47:39 – 47:41
that had almost a one to one
47:41 – 47:42
ratio.
47:42 – 47:43
Actually, I think the sample he
47:43 – 47:45
tested was a point nine.
47:45 – 47:48
So that's omega six over omega
47:48 – 47:49
three. The fraction is omega six
47:49 – 47:50
over omega three.
47:50 – 47:51
That means there are more omega
47:51 – 47:53
threes and omega sixes in this
47:53 – 47:54
particular that
47:54 – 47:55
he discovered.
47:55 – 47:56
He said, I've never seen this
47:56 – 47:57
before.
47:57 – 47:59
And that was super exciting.
47:59 – 48:01
because the omega -3s are only
48:01 – 48:02
one part of it.
48:02 – 48:02
We're talking these
48:02 – 48:04
phytochemicals as well.
48:04 – 48:05
There are also
48:05 – 48:08
these really amazing things that
48:08 – 48:10
cause these same three things,
48:10 – 48:11
anti -inflammatory,
48:12 – 48:13
antioxidant,
48:14 – 48:15
antimicrobial,
48:15 – 48:17
the things we need for immune
48:17 – 48:18
system
48:19 – 48:22
maintenance and
48:23 – 48:23
defense.
48:24 – 48:25
We've given up on a lot of those
48:25 – 48:27
things because with
48:28 – 48:29
You know, I'm hoping your
48:29 – 48:31
listeners already know that when
48:31 – 48:32
we give up flavor,
48:33 – 48:35
we give up those attributes.
48:36 – 48:37
Because flavor.
48:37 – 48:38
You understand, you create
48:38 – 48:40
flavor with sugar and salt and
48:40 – 48:41
fats.
48:41 – 48:42
Right. And that's the
48:42 – 48:43
perception, you know, I mean,
48:44 – 48:45
it's you know, you ever read
48:45 – 48:46
Mark Shatner's book, The Dorito
48:46 – 48:47
Effect?
48:47 – 48:48
Yes, he's on my list.
48:48 – 48:49
I've been on my list of people I
48:49 – 48:50
want to interview for years.
48:50 – 48:52
He's actually been on the ranch
48:52 – 48:53
several times. He and I have
48:53 – 48:54
become really good friends
48:54 – 48:55
because, you know,
48:55 – 48:57
He started by inner beef and he
48:57 – 48:59
actually featured it in one of
48:59 – 49:01
his books, and it was because it
49:01 – 49:02
won his taste test.
49:04 – 49:06
At that time, and the reason you
49:09 – 49:10
know he didn't just dismiss.
49:12 – 49:14
the fact that, yes, this was
49:14 – 49:15
good tasting beef.
49:15 – 49:17
He then made the association
49:17 – 49:19
after conversations with Dr.
49:19 – 49:20
Fred Provenza,
49:20 – 49:22
another guy from Utah State.
49:23 – 49:24
He's also been on the ranch.
49:24 – 49:25
But all these people have come
49:25 – 49:26
to the ranch to look at this
49:26 – 49:27
range because they want to see
49:27 – 49:29
where these plant compounds are
49:29 – 49:30
coming from. And when you get
49:30 – 49:31
out there and see that
49:31 – 49:32
biological diversity, it's
49:32 – 49:34
really, really clear.
49:35 – 49:37
where these compounds can
49:37 – 49:38
originate from, because, you
49:38 – 49:39
know, I'm standing there with
49:39 – 49:40
Dr. Fred Provenza,
49:40 – 49:42
and I said, Fred, what are you
49:42 – 49:43
looking at here?
49:43 – 49:45
And he said, I'm observing what
49:45 – 49:46
your cattle are eating.
49:47 – 49:48
And I said, what does that mean?
49:50 – 49:51
And he said, there's tannins
49:52 – 49:53
in that plant.
49:54 – 49:56
And it's tannins that
49:56 – 49:58
he won't eat much of it.
49:58 – 50:00
It's a steer. He's grazing,
50:00 – 50:02
browsing this shrub.
50:03 – 50:04
But he's looking for something
50:04 – 50:07
there. And so Fred, in his work,
50:07 – 50:09
has basically documented
50:12 – 50:14
nutritional wisdom,
50:14 – 50:15
first in animals, and then in
50:15 – 50:16
us.
50:16 – 50:18
And it's associated with
50:19 – 50:19
palates,
50:21 – 50:22
how we taste things.
50:22 – 50:23
That's our palate.
50:23 – 50:25
So animals, how they taste
50:25 – 50:26
things.
50:26 – 50:28
It's based on a feedback loop
50:28 – 50:30
called nutritional wisdom that
50:30 – 50:32
their body is basically telling
50:32 – 50:32
them.
50:32 – 50:34
It's messaging their palate to
50:34 – 50:36
say, I need that biochemical in
50:36 – 50:37
there.
50:36 – 50:37
I need that chemical.
50:38 – 50:40
I need that phytochemical.
50:40 – 50:42
I need that flavonoid
50:42 – 50:44
or I need that
50:44 – 50:45
CLA.
50:46 – 50:46
And
50:46 – 50:49
I need it not because I'm sick,
50:50 – 50:51
John. That's the amazing thing
50:51 – 50:53
about animals versus us and
50:53 – 50:54
where we've gotten to.
50:55 – 50:56
I think the human genome used to
50:56 – 50:57
be here.
50:58 – 50:59
Well, actually, I actually think
50:59 – 51:01
we still have that capacity.
51:01 – 51:02
I do too.
51:03 – 51:05
It's been masked by addiction to
51:05 – 51:07
sugars and salts and other
51:07 – 51:09
stuff. No, I think we have it
51:09 – 51:10
too, but we have to relearn it.
51:10 – 51:11
But these animals already have
51:11 – 51:12
it.
51:12 – 51:13
So they're going around.
51:15 – 51:16
And, you know, when we have a
51:16 – 51:17
headache, we take
51:18 – 51:20
bear aspirin. There you go.
51:20 – 51:22
How about that for a comparison?
51:23 – 51:24
The same company, right?
51:24 – 51:27
Or we take, you know, ibuprofen
51:27 – 51:28
or if we're getting sick, you
51:28 – 51:29
know,
51:29 – 51:30
A lot of friends of mine will
51:30 – 51:32
douse the Vicks Formula 44.
51:32 – 51:34
They'll go to the drugstore and
51:34 – 51:37
maybe get some codeine elixir
51:37 – 51:38
with it or something like that
51:38 – 51:39
to mitigate.
51:39 – 51:42
We're always mitigating illness
51:42 – 51:44
in our human experience,
51:45 – 51:46
especially in Western culture.
51:46 – 51:48
Meanwhile, I'm watching these
51:48 – 51:49
cows. I'm up there with them on
51:49 – 51:50
horseback. day.
51:50 – 51:52
I'm up there with Fred Provenza
51:52 – 51:53
talking about this and Stefan
51:53 – 51:54
Van Vliet.
51:55 – 51:56
They're saying, no, no, no.
51:57 – 51:58
They're medicating,
51:59 – 52:00
but they're medicating
52:00 – 52:01
preemptively.
52:02 – 52:03
They're preventative
52:05 – 52:08
minded in how they absorb these
52:08 – 52:09
chemicals.
52:10 – 52:10
As a result,
52:11 – 52:12
they're the picture of health
52:12 – 52:13
and they don't get sick.
52:14 – 52:14
They're right.
52:15 – 52:17
Our doctoring rates are
52:17 – 52:18
now
52:19 – 52:20
you know, probably a tenth of
52:20 – 52:21
what they used to be.
52:21 – 52:22
They're already low.
52:22 – 52:24
But right now, I mean, you know,
52:24 – 52:25
we run about an average of 600
52:25 – 52:27
head of cattle and
52:28 – 52:29
we had one pink eye last year
52:29 – 52:31
and we didn't even doctor it
52:31 – 52:32
because it just self healed.
52:32 – 52:33
We had two foot rats.
52:34 – 52:35
And if I talk to my neighbors
52:35 – 52:37
and we have good cattle in our
52:37 – 52:38
country, we have good,
52:38 – 52:40
solid Angus
52:41 – 52:41
genotypes.
52:43 – 52:45
Their doctoring rates are way,
52:45 – 52:46
way, way, way, way higher,
52:47 – 52:48
John. And I think it's just
52:48 – 52:50
because we've offered these
52:50 – 52:51
animals a choice.
52:53 – 52:54
And they have the nutritional
52:54 – 52:55
wisdom to do it.
52:56 – 52:57
It was the
52:59 – 53:01
conversation about disease,
53:01 – 53:03
illness versus health.
53:04 – 53:07
I heard framed once as we tend
53:07 – 53:07
to think of,
53:08 – 53:10
of health as being binary,
53:10 – 53:11
either you're
53:11 – 53:13
well, or you're sick.
53:13 – 53:14
Yes.
53:14 – 53:15
When in fact,
53:15 – 53:17
wellness exists on a spectrum,
53:17 – 53:18
and you have
53:19 – 53:20
a state of one of the spectrum,
53:21 – 53:22
you have vibrant health, and on
53:22 – 53:23
the other end of the spectrum,
53:23 – 53:24
you have disease.
53:24 – 53:26
And then you have this in
53:26 – 53:27
between spectrum that you could
53:27 – 53:29
appropriately label it as again,
53:29 – 53:30
it is a spectrum, but you could
53:30 – 53:32
label this spectrum pre disease,
53:32 – 53:34
like you are moving to a pre
53:34 – 53:37
disease state, or moving in the
53:37 – 53:38
direction of a disease state.
53:39 – 53:40
And I
53:40 – 53:42
think that that instinct that
53:42 – 53:43
self medication that you're
53:43 – 53:44
describing is
53:45 – 53:47
the moment there is any
53:47 – 53:48
perception,
53:48 – 53:49
or perhaps not even moving
53:49 – 53:51
outside the optimal health
53:51 – 53:52
state, they are maintaining
53:52 – 53:53
optimal health.
53:54 – 53:55
Yeah, and it could be a very
53:55 – 53:56
small percentage.
53:56 – 53:57
Perhaps they're feeling
53:57 – 53:58
something that's
53:58 – 54:00
2 % off optimum,
54:01 – 54:03
and they have signaling built in
54:04 – 54:06
that says, I now have a taste
54:06 – 54:07
for
54:07 – 54:08
that flavor.
54:08 – 54:10
I now have a taste for that
54:10 – 54:11
scent
54:12 – 54:13
being emitted by
54:15 – 54:16
those flavonoids in
54:16 – 54:17
that plant.
54:19 – 54:20
You know, so I don't even think
54:20 – 54:21
they I
54:23 – 54:24
think they know their plants,
54:24 – 54:25
you know, obviously, they don't
54:25 – 54:26
have names for them.
54:26 – 54:28
But I watch him being very, very
54:28 – 54:31
careful about selecting plants.
54:32 – 54:33
So, you know,
54:33 – 54:35
my people might call this
54:35 – 54:37
selective grazing, but I think
54:37 – 54:39
we've left something on the
54:39 – 54:40
table by saying we don't want
54:40 – 54:42
any selection in grazing.
54:42 – 54:44
Because if you don't allow
54:44 – 54:45
second selection and grazing to
54:45 – 54:46
some degree,
54:47 – 54:48
yes, you get to balance this out
54:48 – 54:49
on the plant side.
54:50 – 54:52
But now, if you allow no
54:52 – 54:53
selection,
54:54 – 54:55
you're in a place where you have
54:55 – 54:56
to figure out how to balance it
54:56 – 54:57
out on the animal side.
54:58 – 55:00
This is why we get into, you
55:00 – 55:03
know, medication and feedlots
55:03 – 55:05
and engineering of feedlot
55:05 – 55:07
rations to try to maintain
55:07 – 55:09
wellness, because the animals no
55:09 – 55:09
longer have a choice.
55:11 – 55:12
They just can eat what's in the
55:12 – 55:12
feed bunk.
55:13 – 55:14
And to me, it's a travesty
55:14 – 55:16
because you have this elegant
55:17 – 55:18
fermentation
55:18 – 55:21
machine slash mechanism in a
55:21 – 55:22
cow.
55:22 – 55:24
And it's this thing of just
55:24 – 55:25
beauty.
55:25 – 55:26
It's this
55:26 – 55:29
perfect Elliot picture of
55:29 – 55:30
matching diverse plant
55:30 – 55:32
ecosystems into
55:33 – 55:34
health that then provides food
55:34 – 55:35
for us for meat and milk.
55:36 – 55:37
And we
55:37 – 55:39
just put put all that aside.
55:39 – 55:40
We cast it off.
55:40 – 55:41
aside, cast all those good gifts
55:41 – 55:42
aside,
55:43 – 55:46
and put these animals in
55:46 – 55:48
a feedlot, in a concrete bunk
55:48 – 55:50
with a TMR ration that often is
55:50 – 55:51
comprised of DDGs.
55:52 – 55:52
It's a waste product.
55:53 – 55:54
DDGs are a waste product.
55:54 – 55:56
DDGs also happen to have
55:57 – 55:58
a lot of times antibiotic
55:58 – 56:00
residue in them, because in
56:00 – 56:02
ethanol culture, you have to
56:02 – 56:04
apply antibiotics to keep it a
56:04 – 56:06
pure use culture to get the
56:06 – 56:08
desired result out of ethanol.
56:08 – 56:10
That was interesting in Van
56:10 – 56:11
Vliet's study, too.
56:11 – 56:12
He also picked up antibiotics.
56:13 – 56:16
It was all through the...
56:16 – 56:17
I think it's all...
56:17 – 56:18
That doesn't happen.
56:18 – 56:21
It tested in 97 % of his
56:21 – 56:23
samples. I think it was 97.
56:24 – 56:25
There was one segment, it was
56:25 – 56:27
80, and I think the other one
56:27 – 56:30
was 97%. I think it was
56:30 – 56:33
a quinone, hydrofluoroquinone, I
56:33 – 56:34
believe,
56:34 – 56:36
showed up. And they haven't been
56:36 – 56:37
able to trace it because the
56:38 – 56:40
ranchers who were growing those
56:40 – 56:41
products had
56:41 – 56:42
no recall.
56:43 – 56:44
They said, we didn't apply
56:44 – 56:45
antibiotics.
56:45 – 56:47
So it had to come from the DDG
56:47 – 56:48
supply chain.
56:48 – 56:51
Carol, my wife, found an article
56:51 – 56:53
that tested 36 ethanol plants
56:53 – 56:55
and found that, oh,
56:57 – 57:00
a significant amount had use
57:00 – 57:02
of antibiotics to maintain the
57:02 – 57:04
purity of their yeast strains to
57:04 – 57:05
create ethanol.
57:06 – 57:08
but it was measurable in about
57:08 – 57:10
12%. 12 % had measurable
57:10 – 57:12
antibiotics in the final
57:12 – 57:13
byproduct DDG.
57:14 – 57:15
So anyway, we're feeding this,
57:16 – 57:17
these, these things to these
57:17 – 57:19
cattle. And for me that, you
57:19 – 57:21
know, I'm not a huge science
57:21 – 57:22
person. You know, I love this
57:22 – 57:23
research.
57:24 – 57:25
That's not where I'm at.
57:25 – 57:26
I'm on the cow side,
57:27 – 57:29
John. So I'm their horseback.
57:29 – 57:29
Okay.
57:30 – 57:32
And I'm watching this group of
57:32 – 57:33
cattle.
57:33 – 57:34
There's about five,
57:35 – 57:37
mama cows, and they're older and
57:37 – 57:38
wiser, I'm assuming.
57:40 – 57:41
And they got their babies with
57:41 – 57:42
them. They got their calves with
57:42 – 57:43
them.
57:42 – 57:44
And they're on the far,
57:47 – 57:49
the northwest corner of the
57:49 – 57:51
ranch. It's a barbed wire fence
57:51 – 57:52
piece. It's off irrigated
57:52 – 57:53
ground. It's about two miles
57:53 – 57:55
from my house. And I trot out
57:55 – 57:56
there and say, what are they
57:56 – 57:57
doing?
57:57 – 57:58
What are they doing out there?
57:59 – 58:00
And I trot out there.
58:02 – 58:03
And John, they're just standing
58:03 – 58:06
in this little godforsaken pair
58:06 – 58:08
of sagebrush dirt that's been
58:08 – 58:10
kind of beat to death because
58:10 – 58:11
they've been standing there for
58:11 – 58:12
a while.
58:12 – 58:13
They've eaten every blade of
58:13 – 58:14
grass off that.
58:16 – 58:16
And I
58:16 – 58:18
get them out of there and bring
58:18 – 58:19
them back to irrigated pasture
58:19 – 58:21
to the 80 species, right?
58:22 – 58:23
It's like, girls,
58:24 – 58:24
here's food.
58:25 – 58:26
But they keep going back.
58:31 – 58:32
One night I'm laying in bed.
58:32 – 58:33
I just have a light bulb moment.
58:33 – 58:34
And maybe it's God.
58:35 – 58:37
It says, no, they know.
58:38 – 58:38
what's about to happen.
58:39 – 58:40
They know what's about to
58:40 – 58:41
happen. And it's because that
58:41 – 58:42
northwest corner
58:44 – 58:47
is kind of the closest point of
58:47 – 58:49
beginning off our home ranch to
58:49 – 58:51
get to those rangelands eight
58:51 – 58:53
miles away. They know that's
58:53 – 58:55
where the journey begins to walk
58:55 – 58:56
to the range.
58:57 – 58:58
So sure enough, that following
58:58 – 58:59
week,
58:59 – 59:01
we now have about 250 mama cows.
59:02 – 59:03
They're included in that.
59:03 – 59:05
We walk right past that very
59:05 – 59:07
spot, right past that very spot,
59:07 – 59:09
all 250 pairs. These are mama
59:09 – 59:11
and baby, so a total of 500
59:11 – 59:13
head. We're on horseback.
59:13 – 59:15
We hit the main road.
59:15 – 59:17
We go down the paved road to get
59:17 – 59:19
to the range. It's across the
59:19 – 59:20
Salmon River, and that's where
59:20 – 59:21
the wild country starts.
59:22 – 59:24
And the open grazing starts just
59:24 – 59:25
in about eight and a half miles.
59:27 – 59:29
And I watch those old mamas.
59:29 – 59:30
They're in front.
59:30 – 59:31
they're in front.
59:32 – 59:33
And they start trotting,
59:34 – 59:35
they start trotting.
59:35 – 59:36
And then they start running.
59:36 – 59:37
We gotta keep going in front of
59:37 – 59:38
them to slow them down.
59:38 – 59:40
Hey, slow down girls.
59:40 – 59:41
And they know what's coming,
59:41 – 59:42
John. No, you nailed it.
59:42 – 59:44
A lot of people are like, what
59:44 – 59:45
is wrong with them?
59:45 – 59:46
They would say, no, instead I'm
59:46 – 59:48
watching and say, what is right
59:48 – 59:48
with them? There's something
59:48 – 59:50
right about those cattle.
59:50 – 59:52
And the reason they're running,
59:52 – 59:54
I realized as soon as we crossed
59:54 – 59:55
the Salmon River Bridge and get
59:55 – 59:57
onto that range, they put their
59:57 – 59:57
heads down.
59:58 – 59:59
They go right to business.
1:00:00 – 1:00:01
And I'm watching them.
1:00:01 – 1:00:02
And they're eating all these
1:00:02 – 1:00:03
different,
1:00:03 – 1:00:05
this esoteric variety of plants.
1:00:05 – 1:00:07
And they're just eating the
1:00:07 – 1:00:09
species diversity that is in
1:00:09 – 1:00:10
that low country on a range.
1:00:10 – 1:00:11
They're eating wildflowers like
1:00:11 – 1:00:13
wild geranium or Indian
1:00:13 – 1:00:14
paintbrush.
1:00:14 – 1:00:15
And they're taking even a bite
1:00:15 – 1:00:17
out of sagebrush or greasewood.
1:00:17 – 1:00:18
These are like plants that we
1:00:18 – 1:00:20
consider, oh man, they're not
1:00:20 – 1:00:21
cow food, but they're trying
1:00:21 – 1:00:23
them all. And they're just going
1:00:23 – 1:00:23
through it like,
1:00:25 – 1:00:25
You know, remember when your
1:00:25 – 1:00:27
kids you go to like a
1:00:27 – 1:00:29
smorgasbord or a nice buffet,
1:00:29 – 1:00:30
you know, we go to, you know, a
1:00:30 – 1:00:32
wedding or something like that.
1:00:32 – 1:00:34
And man, as a kid, I just loved
1:00:34 – 1:00:34
it because there's all these
1:00:34 – 1:00:36
things to try. And I fill my
1:00:36 – 1:00:37
plate with all this diversity.
1:00:37 – 1:00:38
That's what these cows are
1:00:38 – 1:00:39
doing. They're doing exactly the
1:00:39 – 1:00:41
same thing. And it's because
1:00:41 – 1:00:42
they are designed
1:00:43 – 1:00:44
for diversity.
1:00:45 – 1:00:47
And it isn't only because they
1:00:47 – 1:00:48
like it.
1:00:48 – 1:00:49
I mean, their palates are
1:00:49 – 1:00:49
saying, oh, try that.
1:00:50 – 1:00:50
Oh, try that. Try that.
1:00:51 – 1:00:52
I think it's because they have
1:00:52 – 1:00:52
to have
1:00:52 – 1:00:53
I think it's because they're
1:00:53 – 1:00:55
missing nutrition.
1:00:55 – 1:00:57
In fact, this is an interesting
1:00:57 – 1:00:58
thing.
1:00:58 – 1:00:59
Whenever we put them on the low
1:00:59 – 1:01:00
area of the range,
1:01:01 – 1:01:03
if we try to supplement minerals
1:01:03 – 1:01:04
or
1:01:04 – 1:01:06
supplement even salt,
1:01:07 – 1:01:08
those two things,
1:01:08 – 1:01:09
untouched,
1:01:10 – 1:01:12
untouched. They just left home.
1:01:12 – 1:01:13
They're eating some mineral.
1:01:14 – 1:01:15
We usually feed kelp.
1:01:16 – 1:01:18
And they're eating Redmond salt.
1:01:18 – 1:01:19
You know, we're certified
1:01:19 – 1:01:20
organic across the entire
1:01:20 – 1:01:21
operation.
1:01:22 – 1:01:23
And intake is pretty maintained,
1:01:24 – 1:01:24
you know, and they're pretty
1:01:24 – 1:01:25
steady on it.
1:01:25 – 1:01:26
They don't overkill in either
1:01:26 – 1:01:28
one of them, but it's, it's a
1:01:28 – 1:01:29
pretty steady intake.
1:01:29 – 1:01:30
Everybody's taking in some.
1:01:30 – 1:01:32
Second we get to that range and
1:01:32 – 1:01:33
they put their heads down and
1:01:33 – 1:01:34
start to experience diversity
1:01:34 – 1:01:35
again,
1:01:35 – 1:01:36
all,
1:01:37 – 1:01:39
all minerals and all salt is
1:01:39 – 1:01:41
off. It's off the table for
1:01:41 – 1:01:42
them.
1:01:42 – 1:01:43
Does that last for the entire
1:01:43 – 1:01:44
season?
1:01:44 – 1:01:45
No, it changes.
1:01:46 – 1:01:47
And, um,
1:01:47 – 1:01:49
I think it's because the most
1:01:49 – 1:01:50
diversity that
1:01:51 – 1:01:52
we're going to pick up for any
1:01:52 – 1:01:53
one day,
1:01:53 – 1:01:54
and their grazing journey
1:01:55 – 1:01:57
is down in the low country.
1:01:57 – 1:01:59
Because there you have these
1:01:59 – 1:02:01
incredible aspect shifts.
1:02:01 – 1:02:03
So aspect is, again,
1:02:03 – 1:02:06
what direction you are in
1:02:06 – 1:02:07
reference to the sun.
1:02:07 – 1:02:08
So south aspects,
1:02:08 – 1:02:10
you're going to have these very,
1:02:10 – 1:02:11
very just brittle environment
1:02:11 – 1:02:13
plants, these desert plants.
1:02:14 – 1:02:15
There's even cactus there,
1:02:15 – 1:02:16
there's scorpions, there's
1:02:16 – 1:02:17
rattlesnakes.
1:02:17 – 1:02:19
It is desert. And it's because
1:02:19 – 1:02:20
it's got an effective
1:02:20 – 1:02:22
precipitation of probably two to
1:02:22 – 1:02:22
three inches a year.
1:02:23 – 1:02:24
And it gets a little bit of
1:02:24 – 1:02:25
snow, like right now has some
1:02:25 – 1:02:26
snow on it.
1:02:26 – 1:02:28
But what's crazy, John, is when
1:02:28 – 1:02:30
the warm winds of spring come in
1:02:30 – 1:02:31
April, snow
1:02:31 – 1:02:33
gets scoured off.
1:02:33 – 1:02:34
And guess who gets it?
1:02:35 – 1:02:36
The wind.
1:02:36 – 1:02:38
It sublimates. It goes through a
1:02:38 – 1:02:39
phase change. It goes right from
1:02:39 – 1:02:39
solid,
1:02:40 – 1:02:41
doesn't even bother with
1:02:41 – 1:02:42
liquefaction,
1:02:46 – 1:02:47
and goes into the atmosphere.
1:02:48 – 1:02:50
And you can dig a hole under a
1:02:50 – 1:02:51
snowbank on those low country
1:02:51 – 1:02:52
ranges.
1:02:52 – 1:02:53
And a lot of times the soil is
1:02:53 – 1:02:54
powder dry.
1:02:54 – 1:02:55
Wow.
1:02:55 – 1:02:57
Even though it's 85 degrees out.
1:02:58 – 1:03:00
You know, you got snow that's
1:03:00 – 1:03:01
melting and you're like, oh,
1:03:01 – 1:03:01
it's going to snow.
1:03:01 – 1:03:02
A
1:03:03 – 1:03:04
lot of it does not.
1:03:04 – 1:03:05
So you need a rain on snow
1:03:05 – 1:03:06
event. So that's where the two
1:03:06 – 1:03:07
inches of
1:03:08 – 1:03:09
rain comes from, from rain on
1:03:09 – 1:03:10
snow events. So sometimes it's
1:03:10 – 1:03:11
as much as five or six, you
1:03:11 – 1:03:12
know, but a lot of years it's
1:03:12 – 1:03:13
two, three.
1:03:15 – 1:03:16
So those South aspects are
1:03:16 – 1:03:17
there.
1:03:17 – 1:03:18
And then we'll tilt them over
1:03:18 – 1:03:20
into a North aspect in a year.
1:03:21 – 1:03:22
Because the South aspect plants,
1:03:22 – 1:03:23
they're still made of all
1:03:23 – 1:03:24
clothes.
1:03:25 – 1:03:26
And guess what?
1:03:26 – 1:03:27
Photosynthesis pretty much shuts
1:03:27 – 1:03:28
down.
1:03:28 – 1:03:29
You're not going to end up with
1:03:29 – 1:03:30
any sugar in the leaf material.
1:03:30 – 1:03:32
The solar panel has got no sugar
1:03:32 – 1:03:33
in it.
1:03:33 – 1:03:35
So your bricks is fall off.
1:03:35 – 1:03:36
And guess what?
1:03:35 – 1:03:37
We're trying to make money by
1:03:38 – 1:03:39
picking up bricks, right?
1:03:39 – 1:03:40
Because bricks is pounds.
1:03:42 – 1:03:44
So anyway, so we switch over to
1:03:44 – 1:03:45
our north aspect.
1:03:45 – 1:03:46
I talked to the crew and my
1:03:46 – 1:03:48
daughters are finally getting it
1:03:48 – 1:03:49
because I'll come up there
1:03:49 – 1:03:51
sometimes when I'm not up there
1:03:51 – 1:03:52
and I'll say, what are these
1:03:52 – 1:03:54
cattle still doing on the south
1:03:54 – 1:03:55
aspect? It's two o 'clock in the
1:03:55 – 1:03:56
afternoon.
1:03:57 – 1:03:58
You got to get off this thing
1:03:58 – 1:03:59
because we're here to make
1:03:59 – 1:04:00
money.
1:04:00 – 1:04:01
And the cattle are already
1:04:01 – 1:04:02
telling you they're not
1:04:02 – 1:04:03
interested because they're just
1:04:03 – 1:04:06
wandering around or laying down.
1:04:06 – 1:04:07
They're not eating.
1:04:07 – 1:04:08
They're done with it.
1:04:08 – 1:04:09
But as soon as you tilt over
1:04:09 – 1:04:10
into north facing slope,
1:04:12 – 1:04:13
everything changes.
1:04:13 – 1:04:14
because now your effect of
1:04:14 – 1:04:17
precipitation is up 50, 60 %
1:04:17 – 1:04:17
more.
1:04:17 – 1:04:18
Your plant diversity has
1:04:18 – 1:04:20
changed. You have new species
1:04:20 – 1:04:21
over here.
1:04:21 – 1:04:22
So this, I think, John, is why.
1:04:22 – 1:04:24
Because there's the
1:04:24 – 1:04:25
phytochemical,
1:04:25 – 1:04:26
the biological,
1:04:27 – 1:04:29
plant diversity has just
1:04:29 – 1:04:31
dramatically increased
1:04:32 – 1:04:34
because of these aspect changes
1:04:34 – 1:04:36
and because of
1:04:36 – 1:04:39
desert variances and then
1:04:39 – 1:04:41
comparing them with like,
1:04:41 – 1:04:43
for instance, in the low country
1:04:43 – 1:04:44
on steep north slopes,
1:04:45 – 1:04:46
I'll have
1:04:46 – 1:04:48
Idaho fescue -dominated stands
1:04:48 – 1:04:50
that almost covered the ground.
1:04:51 – 1:04:52
If I flip that over and go right
1:04:52 – 1:04:53
over that ridge to the south
1:04:53 – 1:04:54
aspect,
1:04:56 – 1:04:57
I got cactus, greasewood,
1:04:57 – 1:04:58
sagebrush,
1:04:59 – 1:05:00
and blue bunch wheatgrass, and
1:05:00 – 1:05:01
same river wild rye.
1:05:01 – 1:05:03
So, the species difference is
1:05:03 – 1:05:04
completely different.
1:05:05 – 1:05:06
Soil covering is a lot higher.
1:05:07 – 1:05:07
So, there's a lot more green
1:05:07 – 1:05:08
grass on the north slope.
1:05:09 – 1:05:10
So, you know, we got to just
1:05:10 – 1:05:12
basically have that in mind all
1:05:12 – 1:05:13
the time.
1:05:13 – 1:05:15
And it's completely spectral
1:05:15 – 1:05:17
opposite from a feedlot
1:05:17 – 1:05:18
environment where you're feeding
1:05:18 – 1:05:19
the same thing all the time.
1:05:20 – 1:05:22
Here, we're trying to provide
1:05:22 – 1:05:24
for them a diverse palette
1:05:25 – 1:05:27
choice every
1:05:28 – 1:05:28
hour of the day.
1:05:29 – 1:05:30
You know, we're trying to craft
1:05:30 – 1:05:31
that in our heads with our
1:05:31 – 1:05:32
grazing plan. Where are we going
1:05:32 – 1:05:33
today?
1:05:33 – 1:05:34
You know, so we'll be in cow
1:05:34 – 1:05:35
camp,
1:05:35 – 1:05:37
put it, put the cattle all down
1:05:37 – 1:05:38
at the end of the day, after 10
1:05:38 – 1:05:39
o 'clock at night, sun's gone
1:05:39 – 1:05:40
down, they're ready to lay down,
1:05:41 – 1:05:41
they're done.
1:05:41 – 1:05:42
They're going to ruminate all
1:05:42 – 1:05:43
night until five o 'clock in the
1:05:43 – 1:05:44
next morning, and we'll pick
1:05:44 – 1:05:45
them up and move them again.
1:05:46 – 1:05:47
And every
1:05:48 – 1:05:50
night, you know, while we're
1:05:50 – 1:05:51
sitting around camp,
1:05:51 – 1:05:53
cooking dinner, or whatever,
1:05:53 – 1:05:54
we'll decide, hey, where we're
1:05:54 – 1:05:55
going to go next.
1:05:57 – 1:05:59
And where can we maximize their
1:05:59 – 1:06:02
grazing choices and maximize
1:06:02 – 1:06:02
their,
1:06:03 – 1:06:05
their nutritional needs and
1:06:05 – 1:06:06
matching what their palate is
1:06:06 – 1:06:07
looking for.
1:06:09 – 1:06:10
I remember one time I was up
1:06:10 – 1:06:11
there, and I
1:06:13 – 1:06:14
saw this whole bunch of steers
1:06:14 – 1:06:16
kind of heading sideways out of
1:06:16 – 1:06:17
the herd, and they all got their
1:06:17 – 1:06:18
heads down.
1:06:20 – 1:06:21
And I can't even see anything
1:06:21 – 1:06:22
over there, John.
1:06:22 – 1:06:23
It's like they're grazing air.
1:06:26 – 1:06:27
There's sagebrush, there's
1:06:27 – 1:06:28
bluebunch wheatgrass, but
1:06:28 – 1:06:30
they're not eating the bluebunch
1:06:30 – 1:06:31
wheatgrass, which is a really
1:06:31 – 1:06:32
good grass. I have bricks
1:06:32 – 1:06:33
bluebunch wheatgrass at 22.
1:06:34 – 1:06:35
You know, at the right time of
1:06:35 – 1:06:36
year, early in spring,
1:06:37 – 1:06:38
when it's really coming pre
1:06:38 – 1:06:39
-boot stage,
1:06:39 – 1:06:40
you know, 22 bricks.
1:06:43 – 1:06:45
And I'm like, that grass,
1:06:45 – 1:06:46
that blue bunch wheatgrass is
1:06:46 – 1:06:48
running 22 bricks, but they're
1:06:48 – 1:06:49
grazing air.
1:06:49 – 1:06:50
What
1:06:50 – 1:06:51
is going on?
1:06:52 – 1:06:53
So I go over there and see what
1:06:53 – 1:06:54
they're doing.
1:06:57 – 1:06:58
And I see that they're grazing
1:06:58 – 1:06:59
this plant that's almost
1:06:59 – 1:07:01
invisible. It's just this wispy
1:07:01 – 1:07:03
little plant about, you know,
1:07:03 – 1:07:04
10 centimeters high.
1:07:07 – 1:07:08
It's got these tiny, tiny little
1:07:08 – 1:07:09
white flowers on top.
1:07:10 – 1:07:12
And I know what it is.
1:07:12 – 1:07:13
It's called Erin area.
1:07:13 – 1:07:14
It
1:07:15 – 1:07:17
really likes these low desert
1:07:17 – 1:07:18
environments and
1:07:18 – 1:07:20
they're sweeping it up.
1:07:20 – 1:07:21
They just hold their tongue out
1:07:21 – 1:07:22
and sweep it up.
1:07:22 – 1:07:24
It's easily broken and they
1:07:24 – 1:07:25
sweep it up and they just
1:07:25 – 1:07:27
they're just lawnmowers going
1:07:27 – 1:07:28
across this Erin area flat.
1:07:30 – 1:07:32
I told Fred Provenza about this
1:07:32 – 1:07:33
and he just started laughing at
1:07:33 – 1:07:34
me. And I said, do you know what
1:07:34 – 1:07:35
the plant was, Fred?
1:07:35 – 1:07:36
And he said, yeah, I bet it was
1:07:36 – 1:07:37
Erin area.
1:07:37 – 1:07:39
He knew he
1:07:40 – 1:07:41
knew.
1:07:42 – 1:07:43
Anyway,
1:07:43 – 1:07:44
um,
1:07:44 – 1:07:45
so I had to try it.
1:07:45 – 1:07:46
So I tried the same thing.
1:07:46 – 1:07:47
I just swept a bunch of it up
1:07:47 – 1:07:48
with my hand and stuck it in my
1:07:48 – 1:07:49
mouth. And guess what?
1:07:51 – 1:07:53
I mean, it tasted like maple
1:07:53 – 1:07:54
syrup, John.
1:07:54 – 1:07:55
I
1:07:55 – 1:07:57
mean, those little flowers, they
1:07:57 – 1:07:58
were maple syrup.
1:07:59 – 1:08:00
I bet they would bricks.
1:08:00 – 1:08:01
I should, I'm going to try
1:08:01 – 1:08:02
brixing him this spring.
1:08:02 – 1:08:04
I bet they would bricks at like
1:08:04 – 1:08:05
24.
1:08:05 – 1:08:06
They are that sweet.
1:08:06 – 1:08:07
They are that sweet.
1:08:08 – 1:08:09
And these animals knew it, you
1:08:09 – 1:08:10
know, and, but they're picking
1:08:10 – 1:08:12
up all this other stuff with it.
1:08:12 – 1:08:13
That's what's amazing.
1:08:13 – 1:08:13
You know,
1:08:13 – 1:08:14
yes,
1:08:15 – 1:08:16
it's,
1:08:16 – 1:08:17
sugar,
1:08:17 – 1:08:18
it's maple syrup,
1:08:19 – 1:08:20
but it's got a side of
1:08:21 – 1:08:23
all the plant compound diversity
1:08:23 – 1:08:26
that we can't even begin to get
1:08:27 – 1:08:28
our mind around,
1:08:28 – 1:08:29
you know.
1:08:29 – 1:08:31
Stéphane Van Vliet, when he was
1:08:31 – 1:08:32
out there, he's stuffing plant
1:08:32 – 1:08:33
samples in test tubes.
1:08:33 – 1:08:34
I said, what are you doing?
1:08:35 – 1:08:36
He said, I'm throwing these on
1:08:36 – 1:08:37
dry ice.
1:08:37 – 1:08:38
I said, no, what are you doing?
1:08:39 – 1:08:40
And he said, I want to find out
1:08:40 – 1:08:42
what's in these plants and try
1:08:42 – 1:08:43
to trace it to what's in them,
1:08:44 – 1:08:45
because I want to see if it
1:08:45 – 1:08:46
changes.
1:08:47 – 1:08:49
from plant compound into beef.
1:08:49 – 1:08:50
And he did indeed find that.
1:08:50 – 1:08:52
Some of these plant compounds,
1:08:52 – 1:08:54
he felt like disappeared.
1:08:55 – 1:08:56
They already had been turned
1:08:56 – 1:08:57
into something different.
1:08:58 – 1:09:01
They were metabolized into
1:09:01 – 1:09:02
something now the animal can
1:09:02 – 1:09:02
use. Very specific.
1:09:04 – 1:09:07
So anyway, this whole
1:09:07 – 1:09:09
business has really underscored
1:09:09 – 1:09:10
to me the importance
1:09:11 – 1:09:13
of letting the cow be the cow
1:09:13 – 1:09:15
and letting them make the
1:09:15 – 1:09:16
vegetative choices.
1:09:16 – 1:09:17
You know, even in grazing, even
1:09:17 – 1:09:19
in regenerative grazing, I see
1:09:19 – 1:09:20
this,
1:09:20 – 1:09:21
we can't be not, we can't be
1:09:21 – 1:09:22
selective.
1:09:22 – 1:09:23
We have to practice non
1:09:23 – 1:09:24
-selective grazing.
1:09:25 – 1:09:27
And there are truisms in there,
1:09:27 – 1:09:29
you know, but I would submit to
1:09:29 – 1:09:30
you that almost all grazing has
1:09:30 – 1:09:32
some aspect
1:09:33 – 1:09:35
of selectivity to it.
1:09:36 – 1:09:37
And I think we've lost that.
1:09:37 – 1:09:38
I mean, to me,
1:09:39 – 1:09:40
the test of selective grazing
1:09:40 – 1:09:42
versus non -selective is what if
1:09:42 – 1:09:43
we didn't graze it?
1:09:44 – 1:09:45
What would we see happen?
1:09:46 – 1:09:47
What plants would manifest?
1:09:47 – 1:09:48
What plants would dominate after
1:09:48 – 1:09:50
10 years of not grazing it?
1:09:50 – 1:09:52
And it's obviously different
1:09:52 – 1:09:53
than what the sword would look
1:09:53 – 1:09:54
like if we weren't grazing.
1:09:55 – 1:09:56
So, evidently, there's selection
1:09:56 – 1:09:57
going on,
1:09:57 – 1:09:58
you know.
1:09:58 – 1:10:00
So, I think what we need to do
1:10:00 – 1:10:00
is think about what our
1:10:00 – 1:10:01
objectives are.
1:10:01 – 1:10:02
And our objective is plant
1:10:02 – 1:10:03
diversity.
1:10:03 – 1:10:05
So, how can we create that?
1:10:05 – 1:10:06
And
1:10:06 – 1:10:08
how can we hack their palettes
1:10:08 – 1:10:09
to help us do that?
1:10:10 – 1:10:10
Exactly.
1:10:11 – 1:10:12
Because plant diversity is going
1:10:12 – 1:10:13
to contribute.
1:10:13 – 1:10:14
Plant
1:10:15 – 1:10:17
diversity will contribute to all
1:10:17 – 1:10:18
the medicinal compounds.
1:10:19 – 1:10:20
Yes.
1:10:19 – 1:10:20
Beef,
1:10:20 – 1:10:22
anti -inflammatory compounds,
1:10:22 – 1:10:24
antimicrobial, all the medicine.
1:10:24 – 1:10:25
The medicine is in the
1:10:25 – 1:10:26
diversity.
1:10:26 – 1:10:27
Exactly.
1:10:27 – 1:10:28
Exactly.
1:10:28 – 1:10:29
Glenn, this has already been
1:10:29 – 1:10:31
such a rich conversation.
1:10:32 – 1:10:33
I haven't, we haven't, you're,
1:10:33 – 1:10:34
you're very well known.
1:10:34 – 1:10:36
So, and people can find your
1:10:36 – 1:10:37
backstory. I'm not going to ask
1:10:37 – 1:10:38
for a history and backstory of
1:10:38 – 1:10:40
the ranch, but let's go to what
1:10:40 – 1:10:42
are, what are, what comes next?
1:10:42 – 1:10:43
What are the new things that
1:10:43 – 1:10:45
you're looking forward to
1:10:45 – 1:10:45
emerging?
1:10:47 – 1:10:47
So I
1:10:48 – 1:10:50
think that the biggest
1:10:53 – 1:10:55
place that's really, really
1:10:55 – 1:10:57
gotten rich for me just in the
1:10:57 – 1:10:59
past few months, John, is this
1:10:59 – 1:11:01
aspect, of stockmanship.
1:11:01 – 1:11:02
And, you know, we've always
1:11:02 – 1:11:03
practiced stockmanship.
1:11:04 – 1:11:05
So I didn't really think of it
1:11:05 – 1:11:06
in the context that
1:11:07 – 1:11:08
I'm thinking of it now.
1:11:08 – 1:11:10
This is one of those clobber
1:11:10 – 1:11:12
over the head moments, maybe.
1:11:15 – 1:11:16
And I was talking to a guy named
1:11:16 – 1:11:17
Dr.
1:11:18 – 1:11:19
Tom Nofsinger.
1:11:19 – 1:11:21
He's a veterinarian from
1:11:21 – 1:11:22
Nebraska. Have you heard of him?
1:11:22 – 1:11:23
Yes, I have.
1:11:24 – 1:11:25
Stockmanship expert,
1:11:26 – 1:11:27
but
1:11:28 – 1:11:29
I was actually first listening
1:11:29 – 1:11:31
to a podcast with him in it.
1:11:31 – 1:11:32
So this is a value of podcast
1:11:32 – 1:11:34
sometimes because they'll make
1:11:34 – 1:11:35
you think about something brand
1:11:35 – 1:11:36
new.
1:11:36 – 1:11:37
And I hope we can do that today.
1:11:38 – 1:11:39
And anyway, Dr.
1:11:39 – 1:11:41
Tom started talking about the
1:11:41 – 1:11:42
stockmanship thing.
1:11:42 – 1:11:44
And then he said this thing
1:11:44 – 1:11:45
about how your
1:11:47 – 1:11:48
left eye,
1:11:48 – 1:11:50
how an animal's left eye is
1:11:50 – 1:11:51
connected to the right
1:11:51 – 1:11:53
hemisphere and vice versa for
1:11:53 – 1:11:54
the right eye.
1:11:56 – 1:11:57
And I've been practicing Bud
1:11:57 – 1:11:59
Williams stuff for most of my
1:11:59 – 1:12:01
life. livestock career, but I
1:12:01 – 1:12:02
never knew this about the eye.
1:12:02 – 1:12:04
And it just so happens that that
1:12:04 – 1:12:05
right hemisphere is where
1:12:05 – 1:12:07
animals process fear of flight.
1:12:09 – 1:12:11
And so they got to evaluate with
1:12:12 – 1:12:13
their left eye first,
1:12:13 – 1:12:15
whether there's a fear of flight
1:12:15 – 1:12:17
concern to respond to.
1:12:18 – 1:12:19
That's their test area.
1:12:20 – 1:12:21
So that's why an animal turn
1:12:21 – 1:12:22
their head to you and look at
1:12:22 – 1:12:23
you directly.
1:12:24 – 1:12:26
If you approach them on the
1:12:26 – 1:12:27
right side,
1:12:27 – 1:12:28
they will always turn their
1:12:28 – 1:12:28
head.
1:12:28 – 1:12:29
And you'll be able to make them
1:12:29 – 1:12:31
do that just by getting into
1:12:31 – 1:12:32
their space. As soon as they
1:12:32 – 1:12:35
perceive that there's a chance
1:12:35 – 1:12:37
for stressful interaction here,
1:12:38 – 1:12:40
they want to now evaluate you
1:12:40 – 1:12:40
with their left eye.
1:12:41 – 1:12:42
So they will turn toward you.
1:12:45 – 1:12:46
So I didn't know any of this.
1:12:46 – 1:12:48
So I started trying it with my
1:12:48 – 1:12:49
daughter,
1:12:49 – 1:12:50
Melanie. And she thought, of
1:12:50 – 1:12:52
course, this was one of dad's
1:12:52 – 1:12:53
crazy ideas, you know.
1:12:53 – 1:12:55
And so we started handling these
1:12:55 – 1:12:56
cattle, trying to be
1:12:56 – 1:12:58
consistently in a
1:12:58 – 1:12:59
counterclockwise direction.
1:13:02 – 1:13:03
And it began to change
1:13:03 – 1:13:04
everything.
1:13:05 – 1:13:06
And,
1:13:06 – 1:13:07
you know, let me give you an
1:13:07 – 1:13:09
example. We were loading cattle
1:13:09 – 1:13:11
in gooseneck trailers,
1:13:11 – 1:13:12
and
1:13:13 – 1:13:15
I'm holding the gooseneck
1:13:15 – 1:13:16
trailer door in the right hand
1:13:17 – 1:13:18
and trying
1:13:19 – 1:13:21
to get these cattle to go past
1:13:21 – 1:13:23
me while they're looking at me
1:13:23 – 1:13:24
with the right eye.
1:13:27 – 1:13:28
And I'm trying to do some
1:13:28 – 1:13:29
movement to try to get those
1:13:29 – 1:13:30
cattle to go. They won't go in
1:13:30 – 1:13:32
the trailer because my trailer
1:13:32 – 1:13:33
is already fairly full.
1:13:34 – 1:13:35
I like to make it
1:13:36 – 1:13:38
all the way full, not stuffed.
1:13:39 – 1:13:40
I mean, I like cattle to be able
1:13:40 – 1:13:41
to move around, shift weight.
1:13:42 – 1:13:43
But I like them pretty well
1:13:43 – 1:13:44
stuffed,
1:13:44 – 1:13:45
you know, filled in there,
1:13:45 – 1:13:46
because if we hit the brakes or
1:13:46 – 1:13:48
something like that or hit a
1:13:48 – 1:13:48
curve bad,
1:13:49 – 1:13:50
you don't want cattle falling
1:13:50 – 1:13:51
over and other cattle landing on
1:13:51 – 1:13:52
them. You want them to be able
1:13:52 – 1:13:54
to use each other's body to
1:13:54 – 1:13:55
steady themselves.
1:13:55 – 1:13:56
So
1:13:56 – 1:13:57
anyway,
1:14:00 – 1:14:01
I then said to Melanie, I
1:14:01 – 1:14:02
couldn't get those last four
1:14:02 – 1:14:03
head loaded.
1:14:03 – 1:14:05
And I said, could you just hold
1:14:05 – 1:14:06
the gate here? And I go over on
1:14:06 – 1:14:07
the other side
1:14:08 – 1:14:09
and work the left side.
1:14:11 – 1:14:12
And anyway, John, it was three
1:14:12 – 1:14:13
seconds.
1:14:13 – 1:14:14
I mean, I just moved back and
1:14:14 – 1:14:15
forth a little bit on that left
1:14:15 – 1:14:16
side,
1:14:17 – 1:14:19
interacted with that left eye.
1:14:20 – 1:14:21
And they just looked at me and
1:14:21 – 1:14:22
just loaded in trailer.
1:14:22 – 1:14:24
And Melanie brings a trailer
1:14:24 – 1:14:24
gate over and click.
1:14:25 – 1:14:26
So anyway, I called Tom
1:14:26 – 1:14:27
Nofsinger about that.
1:14:27 – 1:14:28
I said, Doc, I got to talk to
1:14:28 – 1:14:29
you about this thing.
1:14:29 – 1:14:30
And he starts laughing about
1:14:30 – 1:14:31
laughing at me.
1:14:31 – 1:14:32
And I said, what are you
1:14:32 – 1:14:33
laughing at? He said, I think I
1:14:33 – 1:14:34
know what you're going to talk
1:14:34 – 1:14:35
about.
1:14:36 – 1:14:37
And I told him about the
1:14:37 – 1:14:38
trailer.
1:14:39 – 1:14:40
And I said,
1:14:41 – 1:14:42
I mean, they really started
1:14:42 – 1:14:43
laughing. And I said, what are
1:14:43 – 1:14:43
you laughing at?
1:14:43 – 1:14:44
He said, go on.
1:14:44 – 1:14:45
I think I know what you're going
1:14:45 – 1:14:46
to say. And I said,
1:14:46 – 1:14:47
OK, here's the deal.
1:14:48 – 1:14:50
I think every trailer door in
1:14:50 – 1:14:52
America has been hung on the
1:14:52 – 1:14:53
wrong side.
1:14:54 – 1:14:54
And
1:14:55 – 1:14:56
he said, I think you're right.
1:14:56 – 1:14:58
And then he laughed some more.
1:14:58 – 1:14:59
And we talked a little bit more
1:14:59 – 1:15:00
and laughed some more and hung
1:15:00 – 1:15:02
up the phone. But anyway, those
1:15:02 – 1:15:02
kind of things,
1:15:03 – 1:15:05
John, this is only a few months
1:15:05 – 1:15:07
ago that I just picked up this
1:15:07 – 1:15:08
nuance.
1:15:08 – 1:15:10
But it's opened a door for me
1:15:11 – 1:15:14
to how to respectfully handle
1:15:14 – 1:15:15
these cattle.
1:15:15 – 1:15:17
Even on the range, if I'm on
1:15:17 – 1:15:19
horseback, I realized,
1:15:20 – 1:15:21
I went in my mind's eye and just
1:15:21 – 1:15:23
thought about how we were
1:15:24 – 1:15:28
actioning ourselves upon these
1:15:28 – 1:15:29
cattle with pressure and
1:15:29 – 1:15:31
release, and how much more
1:15:31 – 1:15:32
effective we could be if we
1:15:32 – 1:15:34
considered those sorts of
1:15:34 – 1:15:36
things, those nuances that
1:15:37 – 1:15:38
would just make them perform
1:15:38 – 1:15:39
that much better.
1:15:39 – 1:15:40
And when we do that,
1:15:40 – 1:15:43
we afford them better stress
1:15:43 – 1:15:44
-free environments to make
1:15:44 – 1:15:45
nutritional choice.
1:15:47 – 1:15:48
Like, let me give you this.
1:15:49 – 1:15:50
I found this weird esoteric
1:15:50 – 1:15:52
paper that talked about how
1:15:53 – 1:15:55
animals that
1:15:57 – 1:15:57
you
1:16:00 – 1:16:02
involve yourself in the right
1:16:02 – 1:16:05
hand side of their head by
1:16:05 – 1:16:07
entering their space, by
1:16:07 – 1:16:09
entering that flight zone,
1:16:10 – 1:16:11
if they get their head down
1:16:11 – 1:16:12
grazing and they don't raise
1:16:12 – 1:16:13
their head up
1:16:14 – 1:16:14
when you do that,
1:16:15 – 1:16:16
because you've built a
1:16:16 – 1:16:17
relationship of trust with that
1:16:17 – 1:16:18
animal already.
1:16:19 – 1:16:21
Those animals are generally one
1:16:21 – 1:16:23
body condition score heavier
1:16:23 – 1:16:24
than
1:16:24 – 1:16:25
ones that would have to raise
1:16:25 – 1:16:27
their head and turn toward you.
1:16:27 – 1:16:29
So John what that means is one
1:16:29 – 1:16:31
one body condition score is
1:16:31 – 1:16:33
about 85 pounds Wow, that's
1:16:33 – 1:16:35
that's they didn't have no fight
1:16:35 – 1:16:37
-or -flight response They don't
1:16:37 – 1:16:38
they don't because they're used
1:16:38 – 1:16:39
to you,
1:16:39 – 1:16:40
you know You still can move them
1:16:40 – 1:16:42
and action on them to create
1:16:42 – 1:16:44
movement and direct them to new
1:16:44 – 1:16:45
ground Those are important
1:16:45 – 1:16:47
features. I don't want docile
1:16:47 – 1:16:48
cattle.
1:16:48 – 1:16:49
I just want cattle that know
1:16:49 – 1:16:51
that we respect them.
1:16:52 – 1:16:53
Like, you know, this whole
1:16:53 – 1:16:54
business of
1:16:55 – 1:16:57
creating cattle disposition that
1:16:57 – 1:17:00
you can basically pet and handle
1:17:00 – 1:17:02
their calves. We don't agree
1:17:02 – 1:17:02
with any of those things.
1:17:03 – 1:17:04
We work with wolves, John.
1:17:05 – 1:17:07
These cattle have to be alert.
1:17:07 – 1:17:08
They have to be paying
1:17:07 – 1:17:08
attention.
1:17:08 – 1:17:09
And plus we're moving them
1:17:09 – 1:17:12
across rangelands for miles a
1:17:12 – 1:17:15
day. We put GPSs in our
1:17:15 – 1:17:17
saddlebag and found out that
1:17:17 – 1:17:19
we're traveling 600 miles a year
1:17:19 – 1:17:21
with these animals on their
1:17:21 – 1:17:23
grazing journey.
1:17:24 – 1:17:25
So that means they have to be
1:17:25 – 1:17:26
actionable.
1:17:26 – 1:17:27
They have to be alert.
1:17:27 – 1:17:29
They have to be ready to take
1:17:29 – 1:17:31
energy from us and
1:17:32 – 1:17:34
respond to release and pressure
1:17:34 – 1:17:36
release is what we do all day on
1:17:36 – 1:17:36
horseback.
1:17:36 – 1:17:38
So we don't want dull cattle.
1:17:39 – 1:17:40
So as a result, we don't even
1:17:40 – 1:17:41
tag our calves anymore
1:17:41 – 1:17:43
because they these cows will
1:17:43 – 1:17:44
kill you.
1:17:45 – 1:17:46
You know, they take no
1:17:46 – 1:17:47
prisoners. They would just I've
1:17:47 – 1:17:48
been rolled by cows and it's
1:17:48 – 1:17:49
painful.
1:17:49 – 1:17:50
My brother ended up in a
1:17:50 – 1:17:51
hospital for a while, broken
1:17:51 – 1:17:52
ribs, getting rolled by a cow.
1:17:52 – 1:17:54
So, you know, this whole
1:17:55 – 1:17:57
generation of cattle raisers has
1:17:57 – 1:17:59
said, we want calm dispositions.
1:18:01 – 1:18:03
And I'm over here saying, no, we
1:18:03 – 1:18:04
want cattle that are responsive
1:18:04 – 1:18:05
and
1:18:05 – 1:18:07
we're going to respect them for
1:18:07 – 1:18:08
who they are.
1:18:09 – 1:18:10
So anyway, we don't like those
1:18:10 – 1:18:11
kind of cattle.
1:18:11 – 1:18:13
But what I do want is somebody
1:18:13 – 1:18:14
who
1:18:14 – 1:18:16
has the determination in their
1:18:16 – 1:18:18
head that they can trust me
1:18:18 – 1:18:19
because I respect them
1:18:20 – 1:18:22
so that when I move into their
1:18:22 – 1:18:23
flight zone,
1:18:23 – 1:18:24
just a little bit with my horse,
1:18:24 – 1:18:25
they're still grazing.
1:18:26 – 1:18:28
They're watching me, they see
1:18:28 – 1:18:28
me, they see it's me,
1:18:29 – 1:18:31
and they don't respond by
1:18:31 – 1:18:32
stopping grazing.
1:18:34 – 1:18:35
And as a result,
1:18:35 – 1:18:37
I'm a body condition score for
1:18:37 – 1:18:38
it. I mean, how much on a $4
1:18:38 – 1:18:40
market, what are we $85?
1:18:40 – 1:18:41
You know, we're,
1:18:41 – 1:18:44
we're, we're 340 bucks right
1:18:44 – 1:18:44
there, right?
1:18:44 – 1:18:45
That's a big deal.
1:18:46 – 1:18:47
It's a huge deal.
1:18:47 – 1:18:49
So this stuff actually makes so
1:18:49 – 1:18:50
much,
1:18:50 – 1:18:51
so much sense,
1:18:51 – 1:18:53
you know, in terms of not only
1:18:53 – 1:18:54
production,
1:18:54 – 1:18:55
but profitability.
1:18:55 – 1:18:56
These are freebies.
1:18:56 – 1:18:58
These are things that are so
1:18:58 – 1:18:59
easy to achieve once we've built
1:18:59 – 1:19:00
that trust with these cattle.
1:19:01 – 1:19:02
Now, what if we work with them
1:19:02 – 1:19:04
by encouraging them to go
1:19:05 – 1:19:07
left side counterclockwise,
1:19:07 – 1:19:08
you know, when we're, you know,
1:19:08 – 1:19:09
I see so many handling
1:19:09 – 1:19:10
facilities now that are built
1:19:10 – 1:19:11
backwards.
1:19:11 – 1:19:12
I mean, they've got Temple
1:19:12 – 1:19:13
Grandin elements,
1:19:14 – 1:19:15
you know, they got the curves
1:19:15 – 1:19:16
and,
1:19:16 – 1:19:18
but they've laid out the key
1:19:18 – 1:19:20
chute that fills the alley
1:19:20 – 1:19:21
backwards,
1:19:21 – 1:19:23
it makes those cattle go counter
1:19:23 – 1:19:24
go clockwise instead of
1:19:24 – 1:19:25
counterclockwise.
1:19:25 – 1:19:27
And as a result, we're creating
1:19:27 – 1:19:28
we're just inciting stress
1:19:28 – 1:19:29
before they even get to the
1:19:29 – 1:19:30
chute, or they're going to
1:19:30 – 1:19:31
receive all kinds of stress.
1:19:32 – 1:19:35
So I actually talked to my
1:19:36 – 1:19:37
You can see I get crazy on this
1:19:37 – 1:19:38
stuff.
1:19:38 – 1:19:39
I talked to my crew and I said,
1:19:39 – 1:19:40
get the backhoe in the barn
1:19:40 – 1:19:43
there and rip down that whole
1:19:43 – 1:19:44
portion of our shoot.
1:19:45 – 1:19:46
We're going to make these cattle
1:19:46 – 1:19:47
flow counterclockwise,
1:19:47 – 1:19:48
you know, when I started
1:19:48 – 1:19:49
learning all this stuff months
1:19:49 – 1:19:49
ago.
1:19:50 – 1:19:50
And so we did.
1:19:51 – 1:19:52
And they thought this guy's
1:19:53 – 1:19:54
you know, Glenn's got a screw
1:19:54 – 1:19:55
loose, you know, got gray hair,
1:19:56 – 1:19:57
you John, you don't have any of
1:19:57 – 1:19:58
that. So you're, you're cool.
1:19:58 – 1:19:59
I do. I just hide it.
1:20:00 – 1:20:02
Oh, you just got nothing.
1:20:02 – 1:20:04
Those are distinguished looks.
1:20:04 – 1:20:06
Very distinguished looking.
1:20:06 – 1:20:08
But anyway, I'm all white now.
1:20:08 – 1:20:09
And my kids are like this.
1:20:09 – 1:20:10
Yeah, he's getting old.
1:20:11 – 1:20:11
He's getting old.
1:20:13 – 1:20:14
So anyway,
1:20:15 – 1:20:16
anyway,
1:20:16 – 1:20:19
I had him turn over this whole
1:20:19 – 1:20:20
thing. We put a bud box in here,
1:20:20 – 1:20:22
Bud Williams box, and we made
1:20:22 – 1:20:22
sure that these cattle were
1:20:22 – 1:20:23
always going to flow
1:20:23 – 1:20:24
counterclockwise.
1:20:25 – 1:20:26
Anyway, they came in a chute.
1:20:27 – 1:20:29
We had to preg check 250 cows a
1:20:29 – 1:20:29
few weeks ago.
1:20:31 – 1:20:33
And I have never seen this
1:20:33 – 1:20:34
before in my life, John.
1:20:34 – 1:20:36
I've never seen it before.
1:20:38 – 1:20:40
250 range cows.
1:20:40 – 1:20:41
And these are not docile
1:20:41 – 1:20:42
animals.
1:20:42 – 1:20:43
They're not. I mean, if you're
1:20:43 – 1:20:46
alone in a crowd with them and
1:20:46 – 1:20:47
you incite them, they will take
1:20:47 – 1:20:48
you. They will even without a
1:20:48 – 1:20:49
calf. They will take they'll
1:20:49 – 1:20:50
come after you.
1:20:50 – 1:20:51
They'll send you over the fence,
1:20:51 – 1:20:52
you know.
1:20:52 – 1:20:53
So you got to respect them
1:20:54 – 1:20:55
and you got to you got to run
1:20:55 – 1:20:56
them in a way that they want to
1:20:56 – 1:20:58
be run. And this left side
1:20:58 – 1:21:00
counterclockwise thing is a way
1:21:00 – 1:21:01
to respect them.
1:21:01 – 1:21:03
I got them coming into the shoot
1:21:03 – 1:21:04
there.
1:21:05 – 1:21:07
And the vets on one side, he's
1:21:07 – 1:21:08
pregging, his wife's running a
1:21:08 – 1:21:09
shoot on the other.
1:21:10 – 1:21:12
I'm just running body position
1:21:12 – 1:21:14
to get him to come into the
1:21:14 – 1:21:15
shoot.
1:21:17 – 1:21:18
And they're flowing really
1:21:18 – 1:21:18
nicely.
1:21:19 – 1:21:21
We're pregging these cows, and
1:21:21 – 1:21:22
I've never done this before.
1:21:22 – 1:21:24
It's 45 seconds to 50 seconds
1:21:24 – 1:21:25
per cow. They're flying through
1:21:25 – 1:21:26
there.
1:21:26 – 1:21:28
For a full arm preg check, this
1:21:28 – 1:21:29
isn't, you know, ultrasound.
1:21:29 – 1:21:31
This is a full arm palpation
1:21:31 – 1:21:32
preg check.
1:21:33 – 1:21:35
45 seconds, 50 seconds per cow.
1:21:36 – 1:21:37
And what was crazy is I've never
1:21:37 – 1:21:39
seen this before, but after we
1:21:39 – 1:21:42
set up a left flow, a
1:21:42 – 1:21:44
counterclockwise motion in that
1:21:44 – 1:21:45
shoot with these cattle,
1:21:47 – 1:21:50
they started walking out of the
1:21:50 – 1:21:51
head catch in the shoot.
1:21:51 – 1:21:52
We've never seen that before.
1:21:52 – 1:21:53
They always like,
1:21:53 – 1:21:56
and they fly out there.
1:21:56 – 1:21:57
You just open this thing, they
1:21:57 – 1:21:58
step out.
1:21:58 – 1:21:59
In fact, four of these cows
1:21:59 – 1:22:00
turned around
1:22:01 – 1:22:05
15 feet away and watched us to
1:22:05 – 1:22:06
see what we're doing.
1:22:06 – 1:22:07
never seen it before.
1:22:07 – 1:22:08
These are wild range cows.
1:22:08 – 1:22:10
These are not docile
1:22:10 – 1:22:12
Holsteins.
1:22:12 – 1:22:13
These are animals you cannot
1:22:13 – 1:22:15
touch. There's no way you're
1:22:15 – 1:22:16
going to touch them.
1:22:16 – 1:22:17
If you touch your baby,
1:22:17 – 1:22:19
they will touch you, but
1:22:20 – 1:22:21
they will touch you to make you
1:22:21 – 1:22:22
part of the soil.
1:22:26 – 1:22:27
Anyway, I never saw this before.
1:22:27 – 1:22:30
It's just because we've created
1:22:30 – 1:22:30
this respect.
1:22:32 – 1:22:33
And I'm just thinking now lately
1:22:33 – 1:22:35
how much that
1:22:37 – 1:22:38
can influence every aspect of
1:22:38 – 1:22:39
our operation.
1:22:39 – 1:22:41
It's how these cattle will
1:22:41 – 1:22:42
finish.
1:22:42 – 1:22:43
It's how they'll perceive
1:22:43 – 1:22:45
nutritional choice and be able
1:22:45 – 1:22:46
to self -medicate.
1:22:47 – 1:22:49
It's a whole plethora of things
1:22:49 – 1:22:50
that come in
1:22:50 – 1:22:52
because we've enabled them
1:22:53 – 1:22:54
to be
1:22:54 – 1:22:56
what they were created to be.
1:22:56 – 1:22:58
It's just like when we get out
1:22:58 – 1:22:58
of the way with soils.
1:22:59 – 1:23:01
I see this as a huge parallel.
1:23:02 – 1:23:03
When we create biodiversity
1:23:03 – 1:23:04
above ground,
1:23:06 – 1:23:08
we're not creating biodiversity
1:23:08 – 1:23:09
intentionally below ground.
1:23:10 – 1:23:11
We're not saying, oh, we're
1:23:11 – 1:23:13
going to create microorganisms
1:23:13 – 1:23:14
down there. We're going to get
1:23:14 – 1:23:16
more arbuscular mycorrhizae.
1:23:16 – 1:23:18
We're going to get a soil
1:23:19 – 1:23:20
biology that kicks butt and
1:23:20 – 1:23:22
we're going to Haney at 50,
1:23:22 – 1:23:24
and we're going to get 12 %
1:23:24 – 1:23:25
organic matter.
1:23:25 – 1:23:26
You know, we won't, we don't go
1:23:26 – 1:23:28
in there saying that, but
1:23:28 – 1:23:28
instead we say,
1:23:29 – 1:23:30
no, we need biodiversity.
1:23:30 – 1:23:31
That's the first thing we need
1:23:31 – 1:23:32
above ground. We need
1:23:32 – 1:23:33
biodiversity. So we're going to
1:23:33 – 1:23:33
work for that.
1:23:34 – 1:23:35
So there's no way we're
1:23:35 – 1:23:36
engineering what's happening in
1:23:36 – 1:23:37
soil below.
1:23:37 – 1:23:39
So instead we almost get out of
1:23:39 – 1:23:40
the way and say, we're going to
1:23:40 – 1:23:42
provide that soil everything it
1:23:42 – 1:23:43
needs to win.
1:23:43 – 1:23:44
And we're going to get out of
1:23:44 – 1:23:45
the way and see what happens.
1:23:45 – 1:23:46
And I,
1:23:47 – 1:23:48
I think in regenerative
1:23:48 – 1:23:48
agriculture,
1:23:48 – 1:23:51
we tend to say that with things
1:23:51 – 1:23:52
like soil,
1:23:52 – 1:23:53
things like plant diversity.
1:23:55 – 1:23:56
But what if we got out of the
1:23:56 – 1:23:57
way and said,
1:23:57 – 1:23:58
hey, Cal,
1:23:59 – 1:24:00
do what you were designed to do,
1:24:00 – 1:24:01
and we're going to provide you
1:24:01 – 1:24:02
all the means and
1:24:03 – 1:24:04
our power to make that happen?
1:24:05 – 1:24:06
Oh, that's beautiful.
1:24:06 – 1:24:07
You know what I mean?
1:24:07 – 1:24:11
I even see people, their
1:24:11 – 1:24:12
cattle are drinking out of mud
1:24:12 – 1:24:13
holes.
1:24:14 – 1:24:15
And just
1:24:16 – 1:24:17
this one little thing, just one
1:24:17 – 1:24:19
little hack of saying, no, no,
1:24:19 – 1:24:20
no, no, no, no, no.
1:24:20 – 1:24:22
we're going to ensure crystal
1:24:22 – 1:24:23
clean water.
1:24:24 – 1:24:26
Because crystal clean water,
1:24:26 – 1:24:27
when you're running a
1:24:26 – 1:24:27
fermentation,
1:24:27 – 1:24:29
say you're a brewer and you're
1:24:29 – 1:24:30
running a brewery
1:24:31 – 1:24:33
and you bring a truckload of mud
1:24:33 – 1:24:35
water over to the brewery and
1:24:35 – 1:24:36
say, hey, I got your water for
1:24:36 – 1:24:37
you.
1:24:37 – 1:24:38
They're going to think you're
1:24:38 – 1:24:39
nuts.
1:24:39 – 1:24:40
They're going to think, dump
1:24:40 – 1:24:41
that stuff. We need the crystal
1:24:41 – 1:24:42
clear stuff.
1:24:43 – 1:24:44
We need the Rocky Mountain
1:24:44 – 1:24:44
spring water.
1:24:45 – 1:24:47
We don't want to go to Lake Erie
1:24:47 – 1:24:49
for our brewery water.
1:24:49 – 1:24:50
We're not going to do that.
1:24:50 – 1:24:52
There's sludge residue in the
1:24:52 – 1:24:53
bottom of Lake Erie, and the
1:24:53 – 1:24:54
wind's been blowing.
1:24:54 – 1:24:55
Absolutely not.
1:24:55 – 1:24:56
That's the stupidest thing I've
1:24:56 – 1:24:56
ever heard in my life.
1:24:57 – 1:24:58
Just for the record,
1:24:58 – 1:25:00
since I live 20 miles from the
1:25:00 – 1:25:01
lake,
1:25:01 – 1:25:04
Lake Erie is no longer the news
1:25:04 – 1:25:06
headlines of the 1980s.
1:25:07 – 1:25:08
Lake Erie is clean.
1:25:08 – 1:25:10
It's clear. It's clear as a
1:25:10 – 1:25:11
crystal. You know what made it
1:25:11 – 1:25:12
so?
1:25:14 – 1:25:15
I'm using air quotes here for
1:25:15 – 1:25:16
all the people listening.
1:25:16 – 1:25:18
An invasive species called the
1:25:18 – 1:25:18
zebra mussel.
1:25:19 – 1:25:20
Oh, no way. It filtered it all.
1:25:21 – 1:25:22
Zebra mussel filtered it all in
1:25:22 – 1:25:24
Lake Erie as clear as can be.
1:25:26 – 1:25:28
You know what's crazy about
1:25:28 – 1:25:29
that, John?
1:25:29 – 1:25:32
My dad, he quit dairy farming
1:25:32 – 1:25:33
and
1:25:34 – 1:25:35
we used to live on the East
1:25:35 – 1:25:35
Coast.
1:25:35 – 1:25:37
And he hauled,
1:25:37 – 1:25:39
he picked up a semi and he
1:25:39 – 1:25:41
hauled semi over the road.
1:25:41 – 1:25:42
He'd usually be back
1:25:42 – 1:25:43
every night.
1:25:45 – 1:25:46
So it wasn't like long -term
1:25:46 – 1:25:47
trucking. You know, sometimes
1:25:47 – 1:25:48
you have to be gone.
1:25:49 – 1:25:52
But he told me about hauling
1:25:53 – 1:25:54
semi -loads of
1:25:55 – 1:25:57
goods over the Cuyahoga River.
1:25:59 – 1:26:00
It was on fire.
1:26:00 – 1:26:02
The Cuyahoga was literally on
1:26:02 – 1:26:03
fire.
1:26:04 – 1:26:05
And that was flowing directly
1:26:05 – 1:26:06
into Lake Erie.
1:26:08 – 1:26:09
What's amazing is
1:26:09 – 1:26:11
that's different.
1:26:11 – 1:26:12
That's the amazing thing.
1:26:13 – 1:26:14
Yeah, the EPA gets some of the
1:26:14 – 1:26:16
credit and the zebra mussel gets
1:26:16 – 1:26:16
more credit.
1:26:19 – 1:26:20
But anyway, you know, John,
1:26:20 – 1:26:21
don't you agree we just got to
1:26:21 – 1:26:22
get out of the way on some of
1:26:22 – 1:26:23
these things and provide those
1:26:23 – 1:26:24
opportunities, you know, for
1:26:24 – 1:26:26
biodiversity to occur and for
1:26:26 – 1:26:28
these cows to actually manifest
1:26:28 – 1:26:29
in what they're created to be.
1:26:29 – 1:26:31
Because I think, you know, some
1:26:31 – 1:26:32
of it is epigenetics.
1:26:33 – 1:26:35
You know, we could be getting in
1:26:35 – 1:26:36
the way of our cattle.
1:26:36 – 1:26:36
We could be creating
1:26:36 – 1:26:38
environmental pressures on them
1:26:38 – 1:26:39
that present,
1:26:39 – 1:26:41
you know,
1:26:41 – 1:26:43
no opportunity for genes to
1:26:43 – 1:26:44
express.
1:26:44 – 1:26:45
I think there's genes, there's
1:26:45 – 1:26:47
so many genes that we leave on
1:26:47 – 1:26:49
the table that we're not
1:26:49 – 1:26:50
allowing to express because
1:26:50 – 1:26:52
we're unknowingly placing
1:26:52 – 1:26:53
environmental pressure on these
1:26:53 – 1:26:55
animals or even the plants that
1:26:55 – 1:26:56
we work with.
1:26:56 – 1:26:57
Well, as
1:26:58 – 1:26:59
I'm listening to you describe
1:27:01 – 1:27:03
your analogy of not deliberately
1:27:03 – 1:27:05
engineering, attempting to
1:27:05 – 1:27:06
engineer the soil microbiome was
1:27:06 – 1:27:09
a beautiful and a very apt and
1:27:09 – 1:27:10
appropriate analogy.
1:27:11 – 1:27:12
There is an aspect of what
1:27:12 – 1:27:13
you're describing.
1:27:14 – 1:27:15
It occurs to me that perhaps the
1:27:15 – 1:27:17
appropriate word to use is a
1:27:17 – 1:27:18
control or
1:27:19 – 1:27:20
attempted control.
1:27:20 – 1:27:22
We attempt to control
1:27:23 – 1:27:25
what plants we're planting, what
1:27:25 – 1:27:27
crops we're planting in row crop
1:27:27 – 1:27:28
environments, what cover crop
1:27:28 – 1:27:29
combinations and so forth.
1:27:30 – 1:27:32
And to what degree are we
1:27:32 – 1:27:33
restricting ourselves and
1:27:33 – 1:27:35
restricting the development of
1:27:35 – 1:27:37
the whole ecosystem by our
1:27:37 – 1:27:38
attempts to control?
1:27:38 – 1:27:40
There's a difference between
1:27:41 – 1:27:42
controlling and what's the,
1:27:43 – 1:27:43
what's the other word that I'm
1:27:43 – 1:27:45
looking for? Um,
1:27:46 – 1:27:48
not even guiding necessarily,
1:27:48 – 1:27:49
but allowing to express, you
1:27:49 – 1:27:51
know, there's this phrage, um,
1:27:51 – 1:27:53
this phrase from, I've been
1:27:53 – 1:27:54
really intrigued by the body of
1:27:54 – 1:27:55
work that has been popularized
1:27:55 – 1:27:56
by Otto Scharmer,
1:27:56 – 1:27:59
uh, theory, you, the tag phrase,
1:27:59 – 1:28:01
the tagline from theory, you is
1:28:01 – 1:28:03
leading from the emerging
1:28:03 – 1:28:04
future,
1:28:04 – 1:28:05
allowing,
1:28:06 – 1:28:07
allowing the future to emerge
1:28:07 – 1:28:09
and facilitating that being a
1:28:09 – 1:28:09
facilitator.
1:28:10 – 1:28:11
Rather than trying to control,
1:28:11 – 1:28:13
you were a facilitator and
1:28:13 – 1:28:14
allowing the optimal solutions.
1:28:15 – 1:28:16
emerge.
1:28:16 – 1:28:17
Yes.
1:28:17 – 1:28:18
Yes.
1:28:18 – 1:28:19
No, you're exactly right And
1:28:20 – 1:28:21
when we do that we start finding
1:28:21 – 1:28:23
out all these other things start
1:28:23 – 1:28:24
happening Like one thing we
1:28:24 – 1:28:25
noticed several years ago on our
1:28:25 – 1:28:26
cattle is
1:28:27 – 1:28:28
we no longer had flies
1:28:30 – 1:28:33
John I come from this like we
1:28:33 – 1:28:34
put it on those cattle we put
1:28:34 – 1:28:36
war backs on you know, we put
1:28:36 – 1:28:38
ivermectin on dekto max we you
1:28:38 – 1:28:40
know used insecticide pyrethroid
1:28:40 – 1:28:42
ear tags and then we rotate them
1:28:42 – 1:28:44
with organophosphates and
1:28:45 – 1:28:46
Man,
1:28:46 – 1:28:48
Warbecks, it's illegal to throw
1:28:48 – 1:28:49
the container away.
1:28:51 – 1:28:53
It says, do not throw this
1:28:53 – 1:28:53
container away.
1:28:53 – 1:28:54
So what are you supposed to do?
1:28:55 – 1:28:55
You know, I mean, everybody
1:28:55 – 1:28:57
threw them away at the time of
1:28:57 – 1:28:57
Warbecks. So,
1:28:58 – 1:28:59
you know, so we did all these
1:28:59 – 1:29:00
things. And now,
1:29:01 – 1:29:02
of course, you know, when we
1:29:02 – 1:29:03
became organic, those things
1:29:03 – 1:29:04
ended.
1:29:05 – 1:29:07
So these cattle, especially in a
1:29:07 – 1:29:08
range.
1:29:08 – 1:29:10
And I had Fred Provenza with me
1:29:10 – 1:29:11
on one of these questions.
1:29:11 – 1:29:12
I said, Fred,
1:29:14 – 1:29:15
what do you think of the flies?
1:29:16 – 1:29:17
And he said, well, you don't
1:29:17 – 1:29:18
have any.
1:29:18 – 1:29:20
And I said, well, why?
1:29:20 – 1:29:21
I want to know why.
1:29:22 – 1:29:25
And he said, it goes back to
1:29:26 – 1:29:27
the phytochemical diversity that
1:29:27 – 1:29:28
your cows are eating.
1:29:28 – 1:29:29
It just goes back.
1:29:29 – 1:29:31
He said that they're licking
1:29:31 – 1:29:32
themselves. It's in their
1:29:32 – 1:29:33
saliva.
1:29:33 – 1:29:34
And
1:29:34 – 1:29:36
they're also putting out oil
1:29:36 – 1:29:37
droplets on their hairs.
1:29:38 – 1:29:39
You can see it out there.
1:29:39 – 1:29:40
They're glistening.
1:29:40 – 1:29:41
They're shiny and
1:29:42 – 1:29:43
no flies.
1:29:44 – 1:29:45
And he said, it's because
1:29:46 – 1:29:48
you've presented them this
1:29:48 – 1:29:50
opportunity to self -regulate
1:29:50 – 1:29:51
that, too.
1:29:52 – 1:29:53
You know, so it's not only
1:29:53 – 1:29:54
medicinal,
1:29:55 – 1:29:57
it's fly repellent.
1:29:57 – 1:29:58
And it's just because
1:29:59 – 1:30:00
We've offered them the
1:30:00 – 1:30:01
opportunity to maintain
1:30:01 – 1:30:03
themselves by their own pallets
1:30:03 – 1:30:04
and their own biofeedback loop
1:30:04 – 1:30:05
within them
1:30:06 – 1:30:07
that allows them to make the
1:30:07 – 1:30:09
nutritional choices that are
1:30:09 – 1:30:10
going to take care of them.
1:30:10 – 1:30:11
this regard.
1:30:16 – 1:30:17
So beautiful, Glenn.
1:30:20 – 1:30:22
You know, there are...
1:30:22 – 1:30:24
I get the idea from
1:30:25 – 1:30:26
our conversation that
1:30:27 – 1:30:28
I'd like to spend about a week
1:30:28 – 1:30:30
in the evening sitting beside
1:30:30 – 1:30:31
the campfire with you with a
1:30:31 – 1:30:32
microphone on.
1:30:33 – 1:30:35
Well, come on out, John.
1:30:35 – 1:30:35
We'll put you on a horse.
1:30:38 – 1:30:39
Yeah.
1:30:39 – 1:30:40
Yeah,
1:30:40 – 1:30:44
there is an aspect of wisdom and
1:30:44 – 1:30:47
experience of having been in
1:30:47 – 1:30:49
doing the work that you have
1:30:49 – 1:30:50
been for so long of just
1:30:50 – 1:30:52
observing, paying attention,
1:30:52 – 1:30:53
observing.
1:30:54 – 1:30:55
You know, I get many, I
1:30:56 – 1:30:57
get many solicitations from
1:30:57 – 1:30:58
people who want to be on the
1:30:58 – 1:30:59
podcast.
1:31:00 – 1:31:02
So many that I eventually
1:31:02 – 1:31:05
drafted a form letter to be a
1:31:05 – 1:31:06
kind letdown.
1:31:08 – 1:31:09
And
1:31:09 – 1:31:11
you should have sent one to me,
1:31:11 – 1:31:12
John.
1:31:13 – 1:31:15
I would have handled it.
1:31:16 – 1:31:17
There are.
1:31:19 – 1:31:20
Well, you know, I've been trying
1:31:20 – 1:31:21
to get you on for a couple of
1:31:21 – 1:31:23
years. It's just been, it's been
1:31:23 – 1:31:24
playing tag here.
1:31:25 – 1:31:26
But in
1:31:27 – 1:31:29
one sentence of the letter,
1:31:29 – 1:31:31
I went back, I realized,
1:31:31 – 1:31:32
you know, I'm just writing this
1:31:32 – 1:31:33
thing, stream of consciousness.
1:31:33 – 1:31:35
And afterwards, I read back,
1:31:35 – 1:31:36
I read it again.
1:31:36 – 1:31:38
And I realized how brilliant it
1:31:38 – 1:31:38
was.
1:31:39 – 1:31:40
The one sentence I wrote, I
1:31:40 – 1:31:41
said,
1:31:41 – 1:31:43
decades of experience don't
1:31:43 – 1:31:44
count for everything, but they
1:31:44 – 1:31:45
sure count for an awful lot.
1:31:46 – 1:31:47
Dang, right.
1:31:47 – 1:31:48
And
1:31:48 – 1:31:51
And it was one of the common
1:31:51 – 1:31:52
patterns. I'm getting lots of
1:31:52 – 1:31:53
people who want to be on the
1:31:53 – 1:31:54
podcast who,
1:31:55 – 1:31:56
oh, they've made this amazing
1:31:56 – 1:31:57
new breakthrough.
1:31:57 – 1:31:57
They've come up with this new
1:31:57 – 1:31:59
technology. They have this new
1:31:59 – 1:32:00
product, and it's going to solve
1:32:00 – 1:32:01
all these problems.
1:32:02 – 1:32:02
And it's like,
1:32:02 – 1:32:03
yeah.
1:32:04 – 1:32:06
try it for 10 years and then
1:32:06 – 1:32:07
let's have a conversation.
1:32:08 – 1:32:09
Yeah, you're right.
1:32:09 – 1:32:10
You know, what I've realized is
1:32:10 – 1:32:12
I hire a lot of kids.
1:32:13 – 1:32:15
Our internship just flyer went
1:32:15 – 1:32:16
out. Last year we had 450
1:32:16 – 1:32:17
applicants.
1:32:17 – 1:32:19
The year before we had 700.
1:32:21 – 1:32:22
Last year we hired,
1:32:23 – 1:32:25
I shouldn't say hired, we had 19
1:32:25 – 1:32:26
interns over the course of the
1:32:26 – 1:32:27
summer and
1:32:28 – 1:32:29
Between the interns and the
1:32:29 – 1:32:30
employees, I think our number
1:32:30 – 1:32:33
was sitting right at 29.
1:32:34 – 1:32:34
No,
1:32:34 – 1:32:36
it was 39, 39.
1:32:36 – 1:32:39
So there was a lot of people
1:32:39 – 1:32:40
working on a ranch, you know,
1:32:40 – 1:32:41
associated with and
1:32:43 – 1:32:44
that would be one thing that,
1:32:44 – 1:32:45
you know, talk about in the
1:32:45 – 1:32:46
future.
1:32:46 – 1:32:47
You know, I
1:32:47 – 1:32:48
often see my neighbors, they're
1:32:48 – 1:32:49
saying, hey,
1:32:49 – 1:32:50
you know, we need to be able to
1:32:50 – 1:32:52
buy another ranch for you kids
1:32:52 – 1:32:53
to be able to run on.
1:32:53 – 1:32:55
So we think always horizontally.
1:32:56 – 1:32:58
you know, in terms of expansion
1:32:58 – 1:32:59
for the family business and
1:32:59 – 1:33:02
creating niches for our
1:33:02 – 1:33:04
kids and siblings and other
1:33:04 – 1:33:06
family members, or even just
1:33:06 – 1:33:08
good ranch hands that have
1:33:08 – 1:33:10
stayed with us for several
1:33:10 – 1:33:10
years.
1:33:10 – 1:33:12
And now they're ready to take
1:33:12 – 1:33:13
off on their own and complement
1:33:13 – 1:33:14
our current operation.
1:33:15 – 1:33:16
So we always think horizontally
1:33:16 – 1:33:18
and say, we need to put you over
1:33:18 – 1:33:18
on that ranch.
1:33:18 – 1:33:19
Let's release it.
1:33:20 – 1:33:20
You know, and there's value
1:33:20 – 1:33:21
there.
1:33:22 – 1:33:22
But, you
1:33:22 – 1:33:23
know, land costs,
1:33:24 – 1:33:26
you know, when you look at just
1:33:26 – 1:33:27
the scale of land
1:33:28 – 1:33:29
and look at potential return
1:33:29 – 1:33:30
associated
1:33:30 – 1:33:32
associated with it, it becomes
1:33:32 – 1:33:33
very difficult.
1:33:34 – 1:33:35
First of all, purchase is
1:33:35 – 1:33:37
usually a very low return
1:33:38 – 1:33:39
investment, you
1:33:39 – 1:33:40
know, because you're trying to
1:33:40 – 1:33:41
make principal, you're trying to
1:33:41 – 1:33:42
pay interest all the time.
1:33:43 – 1:33:45
So instead, what I encourage
1:33:45 – 1:33:46
people to think about is
1:33:47 – 1:33:49
what if we
1:33:49 – 1:33:52
just go vertical instead and
1:33:52 – 1:33:54
build businesses on top of the
1:33:54 – 1:33:55
one we currently have, you know,
1:33:56 – 1:33:58
and put more diversity into the
1:33:58 – 1:33:59
system?
1:33:59 – 1:34:01
There is so much opportunity for
1:34:01 – 1:34:02
that in agriculture.
1:34:02 – 1:34:03
No, it's unbelievable.
1:34:04 – 1:34:04
It's unbelievable.
1:34:05 – 1:34:06
So that's why farmers complain
1:34:06 – 1:34:07
all the time about everyone else
1:34:07 – 1:34:08
making all the money.
1:34:09 – 1:34:10
Yes.
1:34:10 – 1:34:12
Yes. And so we can stack it.
1:34:12 – 1:34:13
We could stack it and make that
1:34:13 – 1:34:15
money. We can make that money
1:34:15 – 1:34:16
with a stack.
1:34:16 – 1:34:17
So, you know, that's what I tell
1:34:17 – 1:34:18
these these young people that
1:34:18 – 1:34:20
come out. But one thing, their
1:34:20 – 1:34:21
biggest attribute,
1:34:22 – 1:34:23
John, is agility.
1:34:24 – 1:34:25
And it's just like those people
1:34:25 – 1:34:26
who are saying, hey, put me on a
1:34:26 – 1:34:27
podcast. I've thought about this
1:34:27 – 1:34:28
thing. And it's a really cool
1:34:28 – 1:34:30
thing. And it's because they're
1:34:30 – 1:34:31
very agile minded.
1:34:31 – 1:34:32
You know, at this point in my
1:34:32 – 1:34:33
life, when I'm 63,
1:34:33 – 1:34:35
my wife read a book on it.
1:34:35 – 1:34:38
And she said, you and I are
1:34:38 – 1:34:41
entering the time of crystalline
1:34:41 – 1:34:41
intelligence.
1:34:44 – 1:34:46
people like you, John, have
1:34:46 – 1:34:47
fluid intelligence.
1:34:47 – 1:34:48
And that means agility, agility
1:34:48 – 1:34:49
and thought, you know, because a
1:34:49 – 1:34:50
lot of times we're really
1:34:50 – 1:34:51
difficult and stubborn, you
1:34:51 – 1:34:52
know, and hard to change ideas.
1:34:53 – 1:34:55
But the thing about crystalline
1:34:55 – 1:34:56
intelligence,
1:34:56 – 1:34:58
it implies a lattice, a
1:34:58 – 1:34:58
framework.
1:34:59 – 1:35:01
Yeah. And that framework is
1:35:01 – 1:35:01
called wisdom,
1:35:03 – 1:35:03
right?
1:35:03 – 1:35:04
And that's what we see.
1:35:04 – 1:35:05
That's what we see in
1:35:05 – 1:35:06
agriculture.
1:35:06 – 1:35:08
And for some reason, we've lost
1:35:08 – 1:35:10
sight of the value of that.
1:35:10 – 1:35:11
And
1:35:11 – 1:35:12
You know, we put a lot of our
1:35:12 – 1:35:14
older people out to pasture and
1:35:14 – 1:35:16
say, instead of a young person
1:35:16 – 1:35:17
saying, Dad,
1:35:18 – 1:35:19
what if I
1:35:20 – 1:35:22
tried this on 10 acres here and
1:35:22 – 1:35:23
you helped me out?
1:35:24 – 1:35:25
And I could use the lattice of
1:35:25 – 1:35:26
your wisdom to help me make it
1:35:26 – 1:35:27
happen. You know what I mean?
1:35:28 – 1:35:29
I know exactly what you mean.
1:35:29 – 1:35:32
And I would suggest that part of
1:35:32 – 1:35:34
the reason agriculture has
1:35:34 – 1:35:37
stagnated and has
1:35:38 – 1:35:40
become worn in its groove, if
1:35:40 – 1:35:41
you will, is because it's been
1:35:41 – 1:35:43
become dominated by
1:35:44 – 1:35:45
the elderly generation or the
1:35:45 – 1:35:47
younger generation hasn't
1:35:47 – 1:35:49
capital wherewithal to get in.
1:35:49 – 1:35:50
Yeah. Yes.
1:35:50 – 1:35:51
Yeah. And the whole thing
1:35:51 – 1:35:52
stacked that way.
1:35:51 – 1:35:53
I mean, you look at the process
1:35:53 – 1:35:54
of subsidies, it's stacked that
1:35:54 – 1:35:56
way. where older farmers,
1:35:56 – 1:35:57
you know, they got their
1:35:57 – 1:35:58
histories,
1:35:58 – 1:36:00
they got an ability to, you
1:36:00 – 1:36:02
know, apply for those subsidies.
1:36:02 – 1:36:04
So we've governance has set up
1:36:04 – 1:36:05
and facilitated
1:36:06 – 1:36:07
that even further,
1:36:07 – 1:36:08
especially in the Midwest,
1:36:09 – 1:36:10
you know, in commodity states.
1:36:11 – 1:36:12
So it's,
1:36:12 – 1:36:14
it's, it's a difficult premise.
1:36:14 – 1:36:15
But you know, you and I have
1:36:15 – 1:36:16
talked earlier in this
1:36:16 – 1:36:18
conversation about how much
1:36:18 – 1:36:20
how scalable these opportunities
1:36:20 – 1:36:21
are and how we can layer these
1:36:21 – 1:36:23
opportunities on a given acreage
1:36:23 – 1:36:24
of ground.
1:36:24 – 1:36:25
And that's where the young
1:36:25 – 1:36:26
people really can come in and
1:36:26 – 1:36:27
shine because they're agile
1:36:27 – 1:36:28
enough to
1:36:29 – 1:36:30
think about possibility.
1:36:30 – 1:36:32
And when they interact with the
1:36:32 – 1:36:33
older generation and say, hey,
1:36:33 – 1:36:34
what about this?
1:36:34 – 1:36:35
What about I have this idea?
1:36:35 – 1:36:36
What about this?
1:36:37 – 1:36:38
Let's try it on a small scale
1:36:38 – 1:36:40
and maybe we could stack that
1:36:40 – 1:36:41
enterprise on the rest of what
1:36:41 – 1:36:42
we do here.
1:36:42 – 1:36:43
You know, I think those are the
1:36:43 – 1:36:45
valuable conversations that are
1:36:45 – 1:36:46
going to move us forward
1:36:46 – 1:36:46
because,
1:36:47 – 1:36:47
John, we're
1:36:47 – 1:36:49
We're facing crisis right now,
1:36:49 – 1:36:50
demographically,
1:36:51 – 1:36:52
because everybody's my age.
1:36:53 – 1:36:55
It's in agriculture, right?
1:36:55 – 1:36:56
I mean,
1:36:56 – 1:36:58
I think I think right now it's
1:36:58 – 1:36:59
around 87 % of
1:36:59 – 1:37:01
the people are my age in
1:37:01 – 1:37:02
agriculture in the United
1:37:02 – 1:37:03
States.
1:37:03 – 1:37:04
That means we're facing crisis
1:37:04 – 1:37:05
in 10 to 15 years.
1:37:06 – 1:37:08
I mean, either I'm going to die,
1:37:08 – 1:37:09
I'm going to be dead, or I'm
1:37:09 – 1:37:10
going to turn over the ranch to
1:37:10 – 1:37:12
somebody else or whatever, you
1:37:12 – 1:37:13
know, those are the
1:37:13 – 1:37:14
characteristics.
1:37:14 – 1:37:16
My hope is I never stop working.
1:37:16 – 1:37:18
I just stopped signing in front
1:37:18 – 1:37:19
of checks and I stopped signing
1:37:19 – 1:37:21
the back of checks because I
1:37:21 – 1:37:22
don't want the financial burden
1:37:22 – 1:37:23
of saying, oh, where am I going
1:37:23 – 1:37:24
to come up with the money to pay
1:37:24 – 1:37:26
these people? And I don't want
1:37:26 – 1:37:27
the financial burden of worrying
1:37:27 – 1:37:29
about where money for me is
1:37:29 – 1:37:31
coming from. I just want to work
1:37:31 – 1:37:31
for them.
1:37:32 – 1:37:33
And so that's where Carol and I
1:37:33 – 1:37:34
are right now. And that's
1:37:34 – 1:37:35
actually why we're on a little
1:37:35 – 1:37:36
vacation right now, because it
1:37:36 – 1:37:38
gives the younger generation
1:37:38 – 1:37:40
opportunity to do it without us.
1:37:40 – 1:37:41
So we're hoping all the cattle
1:37:41 – 1:37:42
are alive when we come back.
1:37:43 – 1:37:44
I'm guessing they might be.
1:37:44 – 1:37:48
But anyway, you know, we
1:37:48 – 1:37:49
got to find, we got to ask those
1:37:49 – 1:37:50
hard questions.
1:37:50 – 1:37:51
And then we got to come up with
1:37:51 – 1:37:52
a way that
1:37:52 – 1:37:54
we can move forward together.
1:37:54 – 1:37:56
Because the old people have all
1:37:56 – 1:37:57
the equity,
1:37:57 – 1:37:57
right?
1:37:57 – 1:38:00
The equity is in my hands on
1:38:00 – 1:38:01
this ranch right now.
1:38:01 – 1:38:03
And for me to sell it,
1:38:04 – 1:38:04
you know, and have a real estate
1:38:04 – 1:38:06
transaction, give the kids
1:38:06 – 1:38:06
money,
1:38:07 – 1:38:08
that means nobody's in
1:38:08 – 1:38:09
agriculture,
1:38:09 – 1:38:11
right? Because most sales,
1:38:12 – 1:38:12
in my country,
1:38:13 – 1:38:15
go to some investment banker
1:38:15 – 1:38:18
from California or New York.
1:38:19 – 1:38:20
There are people who can afford
1:38:20 – 1:38:21
that and they're buying
1:38:21 – 1:38:22
recreational value.
1:38:22 – 1:38:24
They're not even looking for
1:38:24 – 1:38:25
agricultural value.
1:38:25 – 1:38:27
They're looking for a place
1:38:27 – 1:38:28
where they can go out on their
1:38:28 – 1:38:30
back deck with a drink and say,
1:38:30 – 1:38:31
this is all mine.
1:38:32 – 1:38:32
And that's the only thing
1:38:32 – 1:38:33
they're looking for.
1:38:34 – 1:38:35
And is that where we want
1:38:35 – 1:38:36
agriculture to go?
1:38:37 – 1:38:38
But what if we look at it
1:38:38 – 1:38:39
different and say, no, no, no,
1:38:39 – 1:38:40
no, no, no.
1:38:40 – 1:38:41
I do want to fish a little more
1:38:41 – 1:38:43
and maybe I want to play one
1:38:43 – 1:38:44
round of golf a year.
1:38:44 – 1:38:45
But
1:38:45 – 1:38:46
I also want to keep working with
1:38:46 – 1:38:48
my with my family, keep working
1:38:48 – 1:38:49
with that next gen.
1:38:50 – 1:38:51
Those are exciting
1:38:51 – 1:38:52
possibilities. And that's an
1:38:52 – 1:38:54
exciting hope for agriculture.
1:38:55 – 1:38:56
Those are necessary
1:38:56 – 1:38:57
possibilities as well.
1:38:58 – 1:38:58
Yeah.
1:38:58 – 1:39:00
Glenn, this has been an
1:39:00 – 1:39:01
incredible conversation.
1:39:01 – 1:39:02
I've immensely enjoyed myself.
1:39:03 – 1:39:04
Thank you very much for all that
1:39:04 – 1:39:05
you do and for sharing your
1:39:05 – 1:39:06
wisdom and experience.
1:39:06 – 1:39:08
And I look forward to more
1:39:08 – 1:39:09
conversations.
1:39:09 – 1:39:10
Well, me too. This has been
1:39:10 – 1:39:11
fantastic, John.
1:39:11 – 1:39:12
You asked really good questions,
1:39:13 – 1:39:14
some of which I couldn't answer
1:39:14 – 1:39:17
well, but it's been fantastic.
1:39:18 – 1:39:19
And I
1:39:19 – 1:39:20
always learn a lot in this
1:39:20 – 1:39:21
exchange of ideas.
1:39:21 – 1:39:22
So thank you very much.
