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In this Podcast Extra, Join John as he answers a wide range of grower-submitted questions covering real-world challenges in regenerative agriculture. The discussion focuses on the practical application of biologicals and biostimulants, nutrient management strategies for specific soil types, and the use of AEA products to improve crop resilience. John emphasizes the importance of synergistic “stacking” of products and the role of microbial diversity in achieving disproportionate yield responses. Other topics discussed include:
- Distinguishing between biological inoculants for the soil rhizosphere and those designed for plant foliage.
- Defining biostimulants as non-living materials, such as humic substances, seaweeds, and organic acids, that trigger plant or microbial responses.
- Achieving geometric yield effects, where one plus one equals five or more, through the synergistic stacking of diverse inoculants and biostimulants.
- Recommending BioCoat Gold and Seed Flare as the primary choices for seed treatments to enhance the native microbiome.
- Including molybdenum in all nitrogen applications because it is a necessary enzyme cofactor for nitrate reductase.
- Improving nitrogen use efficiency for both plants and soil biology through the use of Rebound Molybdenum.
- Adding ammonium thiosulfate to nitrogen mixes to help achieve a proper 10:1 nitrogen-to-sulfur ratio.
- Utilizing Pinion as a broad-spectrum biocontrol that activates the plant’s own immune, genetic, and microbiome pathways.
- Acknowledging that the effectiveness of Pinion is heavily influenced by the amount of oxidative stress a plant is under.
- Identifying plant species and family diversity as the most effective practical steps for improving soil microbial communities.
- Using single-species inoculants, such as Rhizobium or Mycorrhizal fungi, to disprove the myth that small amounts of microbes cannot be successful.
- Remediating high sodium in soil and water by combining gypsum, humic substances, and Spectrum DS.
- Treating hard water with an RO water purifier for foliar sprays to ensure the best possible crop response.
Additional Resources
To learn more AEA’s Nitrogen Effeciency Program, please visit: https://advancingecoag.com/land/nitrogen-efficiency/
To learn more and purchase Pinion, please visit: https://advancingecoag.com/land/pinion/
To learn more about AEA’s seed treatments, please visit: https://advancingecoag.com/land/seed-treatments/
About John Kempf
John Kempf is the founder of Advancing Eco Agriculture (AEA). A top expert in biological and regenerative farming, John founded AEA in 2006 to help fellow farmers by providing the education, tools, and strategies that will have a global effect on the food supply and those who grow it.
Through intense study and the knowledge gleaned from many industry leaders, John is building a comprehensive systems-based approach to plant nutrition – a system solidly based on the sciences of plant physiology, mineral nutrition, and soil microbiology.
Support For This Show & Helping You Grow
Since 2006, AEA has been on a mission to help growers become more resilient, efficient, and profitable with regenerative agriculture.
AEA works directly with growers to apply its unique line of liquid mineral crop nutrition products and biological inoculants. Informed by cutting-edge plant and soil data-gathering techniques, AEA’s science-based programs empower farm operations to meet the crop quality markers that matter the most.
AEA has created real and lasting change on millions of acres with its products and data-driven services by working hand-in-hand with growers to produce healthier soil, stronger crops, and higher profits.
Beyond working on the ground with growers, AEA leads in regenerative agriculture media and education, producing and distributing the popular and highly-regarded Regenerative Agriculture Podcast, inspiring webinars, and other educational content that serve as go-to resources for growers worldwide.
Learn more about AEA’s regenerative programs and products: https://www.advancingecoag.com
Podcast Transcript
0:00 – 0:02
All right. So, first question
0:02 – 0:03
here is from Dennis.
0:03 – 0:04
Could you please explain the
0:04 – 0:05
basic difference between the
0:05 – 0:06
intended use of a biological
0:06 – 0:07
versus
0:08 – 0:09
the intended use of a
0:09 – 0:10
biostimulant?
0:10 – 0:11
I know the lines are often
0:11 – 0:12
blurred, but I'm thinking about
0:12 – 0:15
the concept whereby more is not
0:15 – 0:16
better.
0:16 – 0:17
All right, Dennis.
0:17 – 0:18
And Dennis also has a follow -up
0:18 – 0:20
question here, but I'll start
0:20 – 0:21
with this question first.
0:21 – 0:22
So,
0:22 – 0:23
it's
0:23 – 0:25
worth creating a distinction
0:25 – 0:27
saying there is a regulatory
0:27 – 0:29
framework and
0:29 – 0:31
then there's practical
0:31 – 0:32
application framework.
0:33 – 0:34
There are certain regulatory
0:34 – 0:36
frameworks for what gets called
0:36 – 0:37
a biostimulant,
0:37 – 0:40
and I think generally many
0:40 – 0:41
biologicals,
0:42 – 0:44
unless they are registered for
0:44 – 0:45
disease control or something
0:45 – 0:46
like that, many biologicals
0:47 – 0:49
are called biostimulants from a
0:49 – 0:50
regulatory perspective.
0:51 – 0:52
It's interesting that that
0:52 – 0:53
wasn't always the case, and
0:53 – 0:53
that's why there's this
0:53 – 0:55
historical language
0:55 – 0:56
shift.
0:57 – 0:58
So the
0:59 – 1:00
way that I think about,
1:00 – 1:01
maybe
1:02 – 1:03
I'll say it this way.
1:03 – 1:05
I think of biologicals and
1:05 – 1:07
biostimulants as being in
1:08 – 1:10
several distinct categories.
1:10 – 1:11
I'm just going to run through
1:11 – 1:12
this mentally.
1:13 – 1:14
First, there is a biological
1:14 – 1:15
inoculant
1:16 – 1:17
for the rhizosphere,
1:18 – 1:18
for the soil.
1:19 – 1:21
Second, there is a biological
1:21 – 1:22
inoculant that is an appropriate
1:22 – 1:24
fit for plant foliage.
1:25 – 1:26
Sometimes a
1:27 – 1:28
single product can overlap and
1:29 – 1:30
be an appropriate fit for both,
1:31 – 1:32
but there are also distinct
1:32 – 1:35
microbes that are best or that
1:35 – 1:36
are exclusive only to soil, say
1:36 – 1:38
mycorrhizal fungi for example,
1:38 – 1:39
or exclusive to
1:40 – 1:42
leaf foliage like phytosanitary
1:42 – 1:43
bacteria and others.
1:44 – 1:45
variety of different species
1:45 – 1:46
that are
1:47 – 1:49
only effective when applied,
1:49 – 1:51
or that are only colonized and
1:51 – 1:52
live on plant leaf surface as
1:52 – 1:53
far as we know,
1:53 – 1:54
or as far as I understand right
1:54 – 1:56
now. So there are those
1:56 – 1:57
different groups of microbial
1:57 – 1:59
inoculants in two distinct
1:59 – 2:00
categories. One is for plant
2:00 – 2:02
foliage application, one is for
2:02 – 2:03
soil and rhizosphere
2:03 – 2:03
application.
2:04 – 2:06
And then you have
2:07 – 2:08
biostimulants.
2:09 – 2:09
And
2:10 – 2:13
here in this particular use
2:13 – 2:14
case, I'm trying to describe
2:14 – 2:15
this, I'm going to
2:16 – 2:18
say biostimulants other than
2:18 – 2:20
inoculants, other than living
2:20 – 2:20
microbes.
2:21 – 2:23
So these might be stimulating
2:23 – 2:24
materials such as humic
2:24 – 2:26
substances, such as seaweeds,
2:26 – 2:28
such as amino acids and
2:29 – 2:30
organic acids of all types and
2:30 – 2:31
on and on the list goes.
2:33 – 2:35
From a practical application
2:35 – 2:35
perspective,
2:35 – 2:37
I tend to
2:38 – 2:39
categorize those
2:39 – 2:42
in terms of plant biostimulant
2:43 – 2:45
or microbial biostimulant.
2:46 – 2:47
You have some of these
2:47 – 2:48
biostimulant products
2:49 – 2:51
which produce a very strong
2:51 – 2:52
plant response and others which
2:52 – 2:54
produce a very strong microbial
2:54 – 2:54
response.
2:54 – 2:56
And again, you have a few that
2:56 – 2:57
are cross -categories that do
2:57 – 2:58
both.
2:59 – 3:00
And the reason I'm creating this
3:00 – 3:02
distinction is because the
3:02 – 3:05
way we design our products and
3:05 – 3:07
our nutrition programs at
3:07 – 3:08
Advancing Ecoagriculture
3:09 – 3:11
is you get
3:11 – 3:14
the most effective synergistic
3:14 – 3:16
effects when you grow cross
3:16 – 3:18
-domain and you create this
3:18 – 3:19
synergistic stack
3:20 – 3:22
that covers each of those
3:22 – 3:23
domains, that covers each of
3:23 – 3:24
those modules, if you will.
3:28 – 3:30
And you could even create
3:30 – 3:31
further distinctions in the case
3:31 – 3:32
of the soil microbiome.
3:32 – 3:34
You could talk about fungal
3:34 – 3:35
inoculants versus bacterial
3:35 – 3:37
inoculants. You could speak
3:37 – 3:39
about fungal biostimulants
3:39 – 3:40
versus bacterial biostimulants
3:40 – 3:42
versus protozoa biostimulants.
3:44 – 3:45
And what
3:48 – 3:50
is unique about
3:50 – 3:53
biological agriculture versus
3:53 – 3:54
the historical
3:55 – 3:56
or recent history, shouldn't
3:56 – 3:57
call it historical, but the
3:57 – 3:59
contemporary agriculture of
3:59 – 3:59
today,
3:59 – 4:01
is that when you're working with
4:01 – 4:02
chemistry, it's
4:02 – 4:04
relatively uncommon to
4:05 – 4:08
get geometric effects
4:08 – 4:08
where
4:09 – 4:11
one plus one equals something
4:11 – 4:12
more than two.
4:13 – 4:14
It doesn't happen often if
4:14 – 4:16
you're using soluble ions and
4:16 – 4:17
using chemistry fertilizer, if
4:17 – 4:19
you're using ammonium sulfate,
4:19 – 4:20
urea, what have you.
4:22 – 4:24
The only place that that really
4:24 – 4:25
happens if you use those soluble
4:25 – 4:27
ions in conjunction with plants
4:27 – 4:28
to treat plants and not soil.
4:29 – 4:30
So in many cases you can put on
4:31 – 4:33
these soluble fertilizers as
4:33 – 4:34
a plant treatment and you're
4:34 – 4:35
harnessing the photosynthetic
4:35 – 4:36
engine and you produce a
4:36 – 4:37
disproportionate response.
4:38 – 4:39
But when we're talking about
4:39 – 4:40
soil application, it's not
4:40 – 4:41
common to produce this
4:41 – 4:43
disproportionate response with
4:43 – 4:44
fertilizers.
4:45 – 4:46
And it can be,
4:47 – 4:48
I don't want to say it's easy,
4:49 – 4:51
but it's also not that difficult
4:51 – 4:52
to create
4:52 – 4:54
a disproportionately large
4:54 – 4:56
response with biology.
4:57 – 5:00
Our observation has been that
5:00 – 5:02
the greatest success occurs when
5:02 – 5:04
you stack things together from
5:04 – 5:05
different categories and you
5:05 – 5:06
create these synergistic stacks.
5:06 – 5:08
So if you have a
5:08 – 5:10
let's say a bacterial inoculant
5:11 – 5:13
plus a fungal inoculant
5:13 – 5:16
plus a bacterial and fungal
5:16 – 5:17
biostimulant
5:18 – 5:19
plus a plant biostimulant.
5:20 – 5:21
So you now have
5:21 – 5:23
you've now touched all five of
5:23 – 5:25
those different categories
5:25 – 5:26
and
5:26 – 5:28
Again, sometimes you have some
5:28 – 5:30
products which are fairly cross
5:30 – 5:32
categories, such as, let's say,
5:32 – 5:33
fulvic acid, for example.
5:35 – 5:37
But when you touch all of those
5:37 – 5:38
categories and you create this
5:38 – 5:40
synergistic stacking effect,
5:41 – 5:43
now you have a much greater
5:43 – 5:44
probability in biological
5:44 – 5:46
systems of producing this
5:46 – 5:47
disproportionate response, this
5:47 – 5:49
geometric response where
5:50 – 5:51
plus one is something very
5:51 – 5:52
different from two.
5:52 – 5:53
It can
5:53 – 5:54
be 11,
5:54 – 5:56
it can be 15, it can be five.
5:56 – 5:58
It's unexpected results.
6:00 – 6:02
And so that's the way that I
6:02 – 6:03
think about
6:03 – 6:04
biologicals versus
6:04 – 6:05
biostimulants.
6:07 – 6:08
Dennis
6:08 – 6:09
has a follow -up question.
6:09 – 6:11
Could cover crops be treated
6:11 – 6:12
with revenant charge
6:12 – 6:15
or soil primer as a method of
6:15 – 6:16
fall application?
6:18 – 6:21
And the answer is for
6:24 – 6:26
sure not soil primer.
6:27 – 6:29
I don't know. We haven't tried
6:29 – 6:30
either of those as a seed
6:30 – 6:31
treatment.
6:32 – 6:33
I would much prefer the use of
6:33 – 6:34
seed flare and biocode gold.
6:39 – 6:41
My reservation,
6:41 – 6:43
revenant charge maybe, but we
6:43 – 6:44
have no experience with it.
6:45 – 6:47
So I have a lot of hesitation
6:47 – 6:49
around that when I think based
6:49 – 6:50
on what I know and understand
6:50 – 6:52
about its various mechanisms and
6:52 – 6:52
modes of action.
6:55 – 6:57
Revenant Charge with the sugar
6:57 – 6:59
content is just too sticky.
6:59 – 7:00
It'll create sticky seed and
7:00 – 7:01
everything else that's a mess
7:01 – 7:02
that you don't even want to deal
7:02 – 7:03
with.
7:03 – 7:04
But also,
7:04 – 7:08
the microbiome that is native on
7:08 – 7:10
the seed coat and within the
7:10 – 7:11
seed,
7:11 – 7:13
we don't want to...
7:13 – 7:16
It's not harmful to add to that
7:16 – 7:18
with BioCoat Gold or to enhance
7:18 – 7:19
that with Seed Flare.
7:19 – 7:21
I don't want to mess that up too
7:21 – 7:22
much by adding sugar to it.
7:23 – 7:25
So Revenant Charge doesn't
7:25 – 7:25
contain sugars.
7:26 – 7:28
And I'd be less concerned about
7:28 – 7:29
that than I would be about
7:29 – 7:29
Rejuvenate,
7:30 – 7:31
but I don't think a seed
7:31 – 7:32
treatment is the best fit for
7:32 – 7:34
it. I would prefer to use seed
7:34 – 7:35
flare as a seed treatment and
7:35 – 7:36
then do a soil broadcast
7:36 – 7:37
application of Revenant Charge
7:37 – 7:38
or soil primer.
7:41 – 7:43
Question from Dave Hobson, a
7:43 – 7:44
couple of questions.
7:44 – 7:45
Our planter is set up to put
7:45 – 7:47
starter nitrogen on top of the
7:47 – 7:49
ground two inches off the row.
7:50 – 7:52
Will this be far enough from the
7:52 – 7:54
seed to avoid having nitrogen
7:54 – 7:56
interference with the roots in
7:56 – 7:57
that critical one to three week
7:57 – 7:59
period of ear and kernel row
7:59 – 8:00
development with irrigation?
8:01 – 8:02
Or does this need to be
8:02 – 8:04
reconfigured to place that
8:04 – 8:06
nitrogen in a true two by two
8:06 – 8:07
configuration to ensure
8:07 – 8:09
placement is off the seed and
8:09 – 8:09
avoid the early nitrogen
8:09 – 8:10
exposure?
8:11 – 8:13
Dave, it depends a little bit on
8:13 – 8:14
your soil.
8:14 – 8:15
When you think about the
8:15 – 8:16
nitrogen application on top,
8:17 – 8:18
I don't know your context, but
8:18 – 8:19
if you have sandy soil,
8:20 – 8:21
as you could imagine, and you
8:21 – 8:23
put on irrigation or rainwater,
8:23 – 8:24
the nitrogen is, it is going to
8:24 – 8:26
diffuse out in an upside down V
8:26 – 8:27
a little bit, but it's mostly
8:27 – 8:28
going to go relatively straight
8:28 – 8:29
down.
8:30 – 8:32
If you have heavier soil, then
8:32 – 8:33
yes, you get a lot of sideways
8:33 – 8:35
diffusion and
8:35 – 8:36
distribution.
8:37 – 8:38
And, excuse me,
8:39 – 8:40
I do think it would be valuable
8:40 – 8:43
to go down a couple of inches.
8:44 – 8:45
to be below the seed or parallel
8:45 – 8:46
to the seed.
8:49 – 8:50
The second question,
8:51 – 8:53
the past two years we have used
8:53 – 8:56
10 gallons of liquid 28 with 5 %
8:56 – 8:57
of the mix being molasses and 5
8:57 – 8:59
% corn steep liquor per
8:59 – 9:01
acre out the back of the planter
9:01 – 9:02
as our starter.
9:03 – 9:04
What is your recommendation
9:04 – 9:06
given the comments on UAN or
9:06 – 9:07
ammonium sulfate for the sulfate
9:07 – 9:08
part of the starter?
9:09 – 9:11
So the UAN is a good material.
9:12 – 9:14
And I think that's a good
9:14 – 9:15
material that's well placed at
9:15 – 9:16
that point.
9:17 – 9:18
I would consider,
9:18 – 9:20
you could either liquefy
9:20 – 9:21
ammonium sulfate or you can use
9:21 – 9:22
ammonium thiosulfate.
9:22 – 9:25
Either one of those can be a
9:25 – 9:26
good sulfur source.
9:26 – 9:28
Ammonium thiosulfate is probably
9:28 – 9:28
the easiest and the most
9:28 – 9:29
straightforward to add to that
9:29 – 9:30
mix.
9:31 – 9:32
And you just add in enough to
9:33 – 9:34
get a 9 to 1 or
9:34 – 9:36
a 10 to 1 nitrogen to sulfur
9:36 – 9:36
ratio.
9:38 – 9:40
The third question relates to
9:40 – 9:42
the second 40 pound,
9:43 – 9:44
40 unit application at side
9:44 – 9:46
dress, you mentioned using urea,
9:46 – 9:47
is that correct?
9:47 – 9:48
Yes,
9:48 – 9:50
I do prefer to use urea for that
9:50 – 9:51
second application.
9:53 – 9:54
And then the follow -up question
9:54 – 9:56
is, the melted urea won't give
9:56 – 9:58
the same response soil applied.
10:02 – 10:03
I'm interpreting your question
10:03 – 10:05
here, I think if you're asking
10:07 – 10:09
The melted urea won't produce
10:09 – 10:11
the same plant response if it's
10:11 – 10:12
applied to the soil as it would
10:12 – 10:13
apply to the plant.
10:13 – 10:14
Yes,
10:14 – 10:16
it will produce the same
10:16 – 10:17
response
10:17 – 10:20
or even bigger response when
10:20 – 10:21
applied to the soil compared to
10:21 – 10:22
liquid 28.
10:23 – 10:24
So there's two possible
10:24 – 10:25
interpretations of that question
10:25 – 10:26
there, and I tried to answer
10:26 – 10:27
both of them.
10:28 – 10:30
So the follow -up question is,
10:30 – 10:31
so what is your recommendation
10:31 – 10:31
for the side dress?
10:32 – 10:34
My recommendation is for urea
10:34 – 10:35
for the side dress.
10:35 – 10:38
I prefer urea rather than liquid
10:38 – 10:39
28 or 32.
10:40 – 10:42
We see bigger crop responses
10:42 – 10:43
from that.
10:43 – 10:45
And I
10:46 – 10:49
would, again, add thiosulfate to
10:49 – 10:50
that
10:50 – 10:52
or a form of sulfur of some
10:52 – 10:52
type,
10:52 – 10:54
along with the carbohydrates and
10:54 – 10:55
the carbon and
10:56 – 10:57
molybdenum. You also need to
10:57 – 10:58
include molybdenum in that mix,
10:58 – 10:59
by the way. You need to put in
10:59 – 10:59
at
11:00 – 11:01
least a pint per acre of rebound
11:01 – 11:02
molybdenum.
11:02 – 11:04
And this is something that I
11:04 – 11:05
can't really...
11:05 – 11:06
I didn't perhaps emphasize
11:06 – 11:07
enough in
11:08 – 11:09
some of the webinars that I've
11:09 – 11:10
done recently on hydrogen
11:10 – 11:11
management, but molybdenum
11:12 – 11:14
is the enzyme cofactor for the
11:14 – 11:15
nitrate reductase enzyme.
11:15 – 11:16
It's required by both soil
11:16 – 11:18
biology and by plants.
11:19 – 11:21
And it dramatically improves
11:21 – 11:23
your nitrogen use efficiency of
11:23 – 11:24
the crop when you have adequate
11:24 – 11:25
molybdenum levels.
11:26 – 11:28
So that's a fairly critical
11:28 – 11:30
application. Every nitrogen
11:30 – 11:31
application should
11:32 – 11:34
include rebound molybdenum.
11:37 – 11:38
Question here from Steve
11:38 – 11:39
Schultz.
11:39 – 11:41
We have some very sandy soils
11:41 – 11:42
with organic matter less than
11:42 – 11:43
one and a half that
11:43 – 11:45
has potassium levels less than
11:45 – 11:46
100 parts per million.
11:47 – 11:48
We have historically been using
11:48 – 11:50
potassium chloride with beef
11:50 – 11:52
compost to supplement because we
11:52 – 11:53
have fairly high removal rates
11:53 – 11:55
as well with either silage or
11:55 – 11:56
forage.
11:57 – 11:58
What is the best method and
11:58 – 11:59
amount of potassium
11:59 – 12:00
supplementation for a corn
12:00 – 12:02
silage crop going forward using
12:02 – 12:04
your regenerative methods?
12:05 – 12:06
I don't own the license to them,
12:06 – 12:07
just to be clear.
12:10 – 12:12
We've been advised to stop
12:12 – 12:13
potassium applications,
12:14 – 12:16
but I am worried about our soil
12:16 – 12:18
being able to mineralize enough
12:18 – 12:20
potassium to keep plants healthy
12:20 – 12:21
and sturdy.
12:21 – 12:23
We did use limited amounts of
12:23 – 12:25
foliar potassium acetate last
12:25 – 12:26
year, but don't have enough
12:26 – 12:28
quantified results to make a
12:28 – 12:28
decision. This is pivot
12:28 – 12:29
irrigated ground.
12:30 – 12:32
Also on the same ground, we will
12:32 – 12:33
try to graze standing corn this
12:34 – 12:35
fall and winter with the fall
12:35 – 12:37
cow -calf pairs, trying to seem
12:38 – 12:39
Scheme, my supplementation
12:39 – 12:40
strategy, we were thinking of
12:40 – 12:41
using a split row planter with
12:41 – 12:43
sunflowers to provide protein as
12:43 – 12:45
well as building an understory
12:45 – 12:46
of hairy veg. Any advice on what
12:46 – 12:48
you can grow with the corn
12:48 – 12:49
without seriously suppressing
12:49 – 12:50
yields?
12:50 – 12:51
All right, two different
12:51 – 12:52
questions there.
12:52 – 12:52
I'll come back to the corn
12:52 – 12:53
question,
12:53 – 12:55
but potassium applications.
12:56 – 12:57
So I
12:58 – 13:01
think you are correct to have
13:01 – 13:02
reservations about
13:03 – 13:05
removing potassium applications
13:05 – 13:07
on very sandy soils.
13:08 – 13:10
You didn't provide what your CEC
13:10 – 13:10
levels are.
13:11 – 13:13
But if you have potassium levels
13:13 – 13:15
that are less than 100 parts per
13:15 – 13:15
million,
13:16 – 13:17
many sandy soils just simply
13:17 – 13:19
don't have large amounts of
13:19 – 13:20
potassium and they don't
13:20 – 13:21
mineralize it very well.
13:23 – 13:25
So you didn't give your
13:25 – 13:27
application rates of your
13:27 – 13:28
historical potassium chloride
13:28 – 13:29
application.
13:30 – 13:31
but we have
13:33 – 13:35
both the pricing of potassium
13:35 – 13:36
sulfate and potassium chloride
13:36 – 13:39
varies. It's not always perfect
13:39 – 13:41
analog one to the other.
13:42 – 13:43
But we ran into this scenario
13:43 – 13:45
where we
13:45 – 13:46
were
13:47 – 13:50
given this idea that we need to
13:50 – 13:51
replace potassium sulfate with
13:51 – 13:53
potassium chloride on a pound
13:53 – 13:54
-for -pound potassium
13:54 – 13:55
replacement basis.
13:55 – 13:57
That made the potassium sulfate
13:57 – 13:58
look very expensive.
13:59 – 14:00
So this is now going back, I
14:00 – 14:01
don't even know the exact time
14:01 – 14:03
frame, but probably 15 plus
14:03 – 14:04
years ago,
14:04 – 14:06
we started experimenting with
14:06 – 14:07
instead of replacing potassium
14:07 – 14:08
sulfate,
14:08 – 14:10
or excuse me, replacing
14:10 – 14:10
potassium chloride with
14:10 – 14:12
potassium sulfate on a pound for
14:12 – 14:14
pound basis of potash,
14:14 – 14:16
we instead started replacing it
14:16 – 14:17
dollar for dollar.
14:18 – 14:19
And wouldn't you know it,
14:19 – 14:21
if you replace potassium
14:21 – 14:23
chloride with potassium sulfate
14:23 – 14:25
on a dollar for dollar basis,
14:26 – 14:27
In many cases, historically,
14:27 – 14:29
you're ending up with putting on
14:29 – 14:30
in the neighborhood of about 30
14:30 – 14:33
percent or so less pounds of
14:33 – 14:33
potassium with
14:34 – 14:35
the potassium sulfate.
14:36 – 14:37
And yet
14:37 – 14:40
we almost always
14:40 – 14:42
in our historical data, it's
14:42 – 14:43
been some time since I looked at
14:43 – 14:45
this data or thought about it.
14:45 – 14:46
But from
14:47 – 14:49
memory, I would say greater than
14:49 – 14:50
90 percent of the field
14:50 – 14:51
situations that we observe, we
14:51 – 14:53
got a yield response, a positive
14:53 – 14:54
yield response from switching
14:54 – 14:56
from potassium chloride to
14:56 – 14:57
potassium sulfate.
14:57 – 14:59
even though we were putting on
14:59 – 14:59
less potassium,
15:00 – 15:01
fewer pounds of potash.
15:02 – 15:03
So that would be my
15:03 – 15:03
recommendation.
15:05 – 15:06
And then the
15:06 – 15:08
foliar potassium acetate
15:09 – 15:10
can be a good material.
15:12 – 15:14
We also have our Holo -K at AEA,
15:14 – 15:15
which
15:15 – 15:17
works in some settings and some
15:17 – 15:18
contexts. I don't know if this
15:18 – 15:19
is the right one for it.
15:20 – 15:22
But foliar
15:23 – 15:25
plants do respond generally very
15:25 – 15:27
positively to foliar potassium
15:27 – 15:27
acetate.
15:28 – 15:29
And depending on the soil and
15:29 – 15:31
the context, potassium sulfate
15:31 – 15:32
might also be a fit.
15:35 – 15:36
Potassium sulfate to the soil is
15:36 – 15:37
probably going to be your lowest
15:37 – 15:40
cost and greatest
15:40 – 15:41
plant response would be my
15:41 – 15:42
guess.
15:46 – 15:48
Actually, let me just finish
15:48 – 15:49
that thought before I go on to
15:49 – 15:50
the next one.
15:50 – 15:51
The reason for my last comment
15:51 – 15:53
is because if you have very
15:53 – 15:54
sandy soil with limited
15:54 – 15:55
potassium supply,
15:56 – 15:58
The crop is going to need
15:58 – 16:00
substantial poundage
16:00 – 16:03
and there isn't the same
16:03 – 16:04
degree of
16:05 – 16:07
efficiency gains to be gained
16:07 – 16:08
with
16:09 – 16:10
potassium
16:10 – 16:13
on light sandy soil as there is
16:13 – 16:15
on heavier soil of soil
16:15 – 16:16
application versus foliar.
16:17 – 16:18
On heavier soil,
16:18 – 16:20
I think this research was
16:20 – 16:21
originally done by Patrick Brown
16:22 – 16:24
in
16:24 – 16:26
California and I'm
16:27 – 16:29
The exact numbers are escaping
16:29 – 16:30
me right now, but I want to say
16:30 – 16:31
he was reporting in the
16:31 – 16:33
neighborhood of a two and a half
16:33 – 16:33
to three pound
16:34 – 16:35
equivalency. That
16:36 – 16:38
one pound of potassium applied
16:38 – 16:40
foliar was the equivalent of two
16:40 – 16:41
and a half to three pounds
16:41 – 16:42
applied to the soil.
16:43 – 16:44
That math does change a little
16:44 – 16:46
bit based on soil type.
16:46 – 16:47
Some soils can deliver potassium
16:47 – 16:48
much more efficiently than
16:48 – 16:49
others. And on your soil,
16:50 – 16:51
if you have light sandy soil,
16:51 – 16:53
you do need a minimum
16:54 – 16:56
physical poundage in quantity of
16:56 – 16:57
potassium.
17:01 – 17:02
All right, coming on, moving
17:02 – 17:04
back to the corn question,
17:04 – 17:06
I would suggest that you look,
17:06 – 17:08
without going into too much
17:08 – 17:09
detail on this,
17:09 – 17:10
look at the research that has
17:10 – 17:12
been done by Bob Recker in Iowa,
17:13 – 17:14
by Lauren Steinlogge,
17:14 – 17:16
by Jason Malk in Indiana,
17:18 – 17:21
Stock Cropper, Zach Smith in
17:21 – 17:22
Iowa. There's a number of people
17:22 – 17:26
who are experimenting with wider
17:26 – 17:28
row spacing, either doing double
17:28 – 17:30
60s, seven -inch rows, 60 inches
17:30 – 17:31
apart.
17:32 – 17:34
The short version is they
17:34 – 17:37
are growing corn in wider row
17:37 – 17:38
spacing, and there have been
17:38 – 17:39
lots of experimentations with
17:39 – 17:40
different populations and
17:40 – 17:41
sizing, but they're growing a
17:41 – 17:43
wider row spacing with
17:44 – 17:47
a larger population within that
17:47 – 17:48
row or
17:48 – 17:49
set of rows.
17:50 – 17:52
And that allows enough sunlight
17:52 – 17:54
to move down through that they
17:54 – 17:55
can grow cover crops, they can
17:55 – 17:56
grow forages.
17:56 – 17:57
And
17:57 – 17:58
there's
17:59 – 18:00
a number of people who've been
18:00 – 18:01
doing really great work in this
18:01 – 18:02
space, but they're essentially
18:02 – 18:04
producing a full corn crop
18:04 – 18:06
with limited to no yield drag.
18:08 – 18:08
And in some cases,
18:10 – 18:11
even seeing,
18:11 – 18:13
I know Ed
18:13 – 18:15
Bass from Bass Hybrids spoke
18:15 – 18:17
at an event
18:17 – 18:19
We spoke at an event together in
18:19 – 18:20
Iowa here a couple weeks ago and
18:20 – 18:21
he was describing how they're
18:21 – 18:22
consistently seeing a yield
18:22 – 18:24
response, not a yield drag, but
18:24 – 18:25
they're seeing a yield response
18:26 – 18:28
consistently from cover crop
18:28 – 18:29
incorporation into wide row
18:29 – 18:30
spacing corn.
18:31 – 18:32
So that's definitely something
18:32 – 18:33
to take a look at.
18:37 – 18:38
Question here from Leon.
18:38 – 18:40
I grew up in a family greenhouse
18:40 – 18:41
business.
18:41 – 18:42
We're considering getting back
18:42 – 18:44
into owning and managing a
18:44 – 18:45
greenhouse operation.
18:46 – 18:48
One of my main concerns getting
18:48 – 18:49
back into this occupation is
18:49 – 18:50
disease and pest management.
18:50 – 18:51
Was wondering if any of your
18:51 – 18:52
information has practical
18:52 – 18:55
solutions that are applicable in
18:55 – 18:55
horticultural greenhouse
18:55 – 18:57
environment for disease and pest
18:57 – 18:58
management and or prevention?"
18:59 – 19:00
Leon,
19:01 – 19:03
the short answer is yes.
19:04 – 19:05
Years
19:06 – 19:08
ago, I did quite a bit of work
19:08 – 19:10
on developing a potting media
19:11 – 19:13
to grow very
19:14 – 19:15
high quality
19:15 – 19:17
transplant seedlings and
19:18 – 19:21
vegetable seedlings that didn't
19:21 – 19:22
have all of the disease
19:22 – 19:23
susceptibility, pest
19:23 – 19:24
susceptibility,
19:25 – 19:26
that were already loaded with
19:26 – 19:27
microbial inoculants,
19:28 – 19:29
that
19:29 – 19:32
had appropriate nutrient ratios,
19:32 – 19:33
weren't loaded up with excess of
19:33 – 19:34
nitrogen and excess of potassium
19:34 – 19:35
and so forth.
19:36 – 19:39
And that went quite well.
19:39 – 19:41
We don't really advertise it
19:41 – 19:41
very widely.
19:43 – 19:44
But we do still have that
19:44 – 19:45
potting media and make it
19:45 – 19:45
available.
19:45 – 19:46
And we still have
19:47 – 19:48
growers that use it in very
19:48 – 19:49
large volumes.
19:49 – 19:50
Azure Standard, for example,
19:50 – 19:52
uses it to produce all of their
19:52 – 19:53
vegetable seedlings.
19:54 – 19:55
And so
19:56 – 19:57
I
19:58 – 19:59
spent a lot of time working with
19:59 – 20:01
media formulations and thinking
20:01 – 20:03
about nutrition management in a
20:03 – 20:04
greenhouse context and
20:04 – 20:04
environment.
20:04 – 20:06
So there's a few thoughts.
20:06 – 20:07
One is
20:07 – 20:09
the traditional media is
20:10 – 20:12
saturated with potassium and
20:12 – 20:13
often with nitrogen.
20:14 – 20:16
that produces all kinds of plant
20:16 – 20:17
challenges. And it doesn't have
20:17 – 20:18
nearly enough calcium and
20:18 – 20:19
phosphorus and trace minerals
20:19 – 20:20
are almost entirely ignored.
20:22 – 20:23
So we addressed all of those
20:23 – 20:24
things with a different media
20:24 – 20:25
design.
20:26 – 20:28
And of course, when you start
20:28 – 20:29
adding things to media,
20:29 – 20:31
it rapidly becomes much more
20:31 – 20:32
expensive.
20:32 – 20:34
But also, all of a sudden we had
20:34 – 20:36
media that had built in
20:36 – 20:38
nutrient reserves and energy
20:38 – 20:39
reserves. There was no longer
20:39 – 20:41
the need to add time release
20:41 – 20:42
fertilizer like Osmocote and so
20:42 – 20:43
forth. And we had this extended
20:43 – 20:44
release
20:45 – 20:47
where we were able to grow very
20:47 – 20:49
large flowers or strawberries
20:49 – 20:50
for months and months at a time
20:50 – 20:52
without additional external
20:52 – 20:53
fertilizer applications because
20:53 – 20:54
there was this inherent
20:54 – 20:55
biological fertility that was
20:55 – 20:56
held within the media.
20:58 – 20:59
But then, of course,
21:00 – 21:02
the other consideration is that
21:02 – 21:04
in a greenhouse environment, it
21:04 – 21:06
is so easy to supplement within
21:06 – 21:07
the irrigation water,
21:08 – 21:09
within the watering system.
21:10 – 21:11
and also within the spray
21:11 – 21:11
system.
21:12 – 21:13
The reality is we have much
21:13 – 21:15
better tools available today.
21:15 – 21:16
I don't know how long ago it was
21:16 – 21:17
that you were in the greenhouse
21:17 – 21:17
space,
21:18 – 21:19
but we have much better tools
21:19 – 21:21
available today from a disease
21:21 – 21:22
control and insect control
21:22 – 21:23
perspective with biology
21:23 – 21:25
management and nutrition
21:25 – 21:27
management than we did even five
21:27 – 21:28
years ago.
21:29 – 21:29
We have,
21:30 – 21:32
in the context of disease
21:32 – 21:33
management,
21:34 – 21:36
we now have a product called
21:36 – 21:37
Pinion
21:37 – 21:39
that has actually been tested
21:39 – 21:41
extensively this last winter in
21:41 – 21:42
the greenhouse environments on
21:42 – 21:44
all kinds of houseplants and
21:44 – 21:46
all different types of
21:47 – 21:48
horticulture production.
21:49 – 21:50
A number of different operations
21:50 – 21:51
across the country have been
21:51 – 21:51
trying it.
21:52 – 21:53
And here's
21:55 – 21:56
a material that's completely
21:56 – 21:56
benign.
21:57 – 21:58
It's registered as a biocontrol,
21:58 – 21:59
but it's not a pesticide in the
21:59 – 22:02
classical sense of hydrocarbon
22:02 – 22:03
-based pesticides.
22:05 – 22:06
And
22:06 – 22:08
it's
22:09 – 22:10
proving to be completely
22:10 – 22:12
effective at disease control.
22:14 – 22:16
The reality is there are not
22:16 – 22:17
many people yet in the
22:17 – 22:18
horticultural space
22:19 – 22:21
that I'm aware of that have
22:21 – 22:22
really gone down the distance of
22:22 – 22:23
figuring this out
22:23 – 22:26
on scale for horticultural
22:26 – 22:26
production,
22:27 – 22:28
but it is absolutely possible.
22:32 – 22:33
There's a question here from
22:33 – 22:34
Mike.
22:35 – 22:37
I've been implementing the
22:37 – 22:39
Nitrogen Use Efficiency Protocol
22:39 – 22:40
for a few years now, and I've
22:40 – 22:42
also been using the Haney Soil
22:42 – 22:43
Test on a bimonthly basis.
22:45 – 22:47
This past season, I applied 190
22:47 – 22:48
units of synthetic nitrogen up
22:48 – 22:49
front, broadcast,
22:50 – 22:51
After using the nitrogen
22:51 – 22:53
efficiency protocol with the
22:53 – 22:55
mindset that if I was successful
22:55 – 22:56
in having the microbes
22:56 – 22:58
convert this nitrogen into a
22:58 – 23:00
complete protein, then there is
23:00 – 23:01
no benefit in side dressing,
23:03 – 23:05
what I stumbled upon was my
23:05 – 23:06
total available nitrogen reading
23:06 – 23:08
on the Haney soil test showed I
23:08 – 23:09
only had 40 units of available
23:09 – 23:11
nitrogen from start to finish.
23:12 – 23:13
This reading never changed
23:13 – 23:14
throughout the whole season.
23:16 – 23:18
My hypothesis was that this
23:18 – 23:19
nitrogen was converted to a
23:19 – 23:20
complete protein,
23:20 – 23:21
bound to carbon,
23:22 – 23:24
and was thus insoluble yet still
23:24 – 23:25
available and the Haney test was
23:25 – 23:26
not picking it up.
23:27 – 23:28
I witnessed no signs of nitrogen
23:28 – 23:29
deficiency throughout the whole
23:29 – 23:30
season.
23:31 – 23:32
The one caveat I'm taking from
23:32 – 23:34
all of this is that I can use
23:34 – 23:35
the Haney soil test to show
23:35 – 23:37
whether or not I was successful
23:37 – 23:38
in having the applied nitrogen
23:38 – 23:40
converted to a complete protein.
23:41 – 23:42
The one question I have is
23:42 – 23:43
whether this would also be true
23:43 – 23:45
if it was an amino acid or the
23:45 – 23:45
ammonium form of nitrogen.
23:48 – 23:49
Wow,
23:49 – 23:51
Mike, there's a lot to unwrap
23:51 – 23:52
here.
23:52 – 23:53
Lots of question marks.
23:54 – 23:55
So my understanding is that the
23:55 – 23:56
ammonium form of nitrogen would
23:56 – 23:57
show up on the Haney analysis.
23:58 – 24:00
So I think that answer to your
24:00 – 24:01
question is, to your last
24:01 – 24:02
question, there is no.
24:03 – 24:05
And the question about whether
24:05 – 24:06
amino acids are picked up on the
24:06 – 24:08
Haney analysis, that's really a
24:08 – 24:08
question for Rick Haney.
24:09 – 24:10
I don't know. I think the answer
24:10 – 24:12
is yes. In fact, I'm quite
24:12 – 24:13
confident the answer is yes,
24:14 – 24:17
but the Haney analysis details
24:17 – 24:18
are not my domain of expertise,
24:18 – 24:20
so I would defer to Rick on
24:20 – 24:20
that.
24:22 – 24:23
But I, yeah, I have lots of
24:23 – 24:24
questions about your observation
24:24 – 24:26
and your experience.
24:26 – 24:27
What
24:27 – 24:29
were soil moisture levels like?
24:29 – 24:31
Did you have periods of
24:31 – 24:32
saturated soils?
24:32 – 24:33
Did you have extended periods
24:33 – 24:34
where the soils were really dry?
24:35 – 24:36
What were the moisture levels
24:36 – 24:38
like when you pulled your soil
24:38 – 24:39
samples for hane analysis?
24:41 – 24:42
Because this is,
24:42 – 24:43
the approach that you're taking
24:43 – 24:44
is an
24:46 – 24:47
interesting one.
24:47 – 24:48
I would suggest that you can
24:48 – 24:50
still, if you applied 190 units
24:50 – 24:51
of N,
24:52 – 24:53
I think that is,
24:54 – 24:55
it would be interesting to
24:55 – 24:56
understand how
24:56 – 24:57
much of that you still have left
24:57 – 24:58
over in the soil profile,
24:59 – 25:00
and if there are perhaps other
25:00 – 25:01
soil analysis that can reveal
25:01 – 25:02
that.
25:03 – 25:04
It'd be interesting to know what
25:04 – 25:05
your
25:05 – 25:05
crop
25:06 – 25:07
contained,
25:07 – 25:09
how much, how many pounds of
25:09 – 25:10
nitrogen were in the crop.
25:11 – 25:12
What we've been, as we've been
25:12 – 25:14
working with foliar applications
25:14 – 25:17
of urea and with
25:18 – 25:20
split applications,
25:20 – 25:22
side dress and planting and so
25:22 – 25:22
forth,
25:24 – 25:25
it's not difficult.
25:25 – 25:26
We have
25:27 – 25:28
I'd say the majority of farmers
25:28 – 25:29
and growers who use that
25:29 – 25:32
approach are at 0 .75 pounds of
25:32 – 25:34
nitrogen per bushel of grain or
25:34 – 25:35
less.
25:37 – 25:38
And I don't know the, I'm
25:38 – 25:39
hesitant to put an exact number
25:39 – 25:41
on it, but a significant
25:41 – 25:44
number at 0 .65 pounds per
25:45 – 25:46
bushel of nitrogen or less.
25:46 – 25:47
And that is
25:47 – 25:48
pounds of applied nitrogen.
25:49 – 25:50
So 0
25:50 – 25:51
.75 pounds
25:52 – 25:54
of applied nitrogen per bushel
25:54 – 25:55
of grain or less.
25:59 – 26:00
And if you incorporate cover
26:00 – 26:01
crops or compost, some of the
26:01 – 26:02
additives to the mix we have,
26:03 – 26:04
there's also a set that are at 0
26:04 – 26:06
.5 pounds of
26:06 – 26:08
nitrogen that they can credit
26:08 – 26:09
from or
26:10 – 26:11
that they know where nitrogen
26:11 – 26:12
credits are coming from.
26:12 – 26:14
So I think if you're putting on
26:14 – 26:16
190 units of synthetic nitrogen
26:16 – 26:17
up front,
26:17 – 26:18
that to me is still it's a
26:18 – 26:19
pretty high number.
26:19 – 26:20
I think you can still get that
26:20 – 26:21
down quite substantially.
26:24 – 26:25
Question from Weston.
26:25 – 26:27
How early in a plant's life can
26:27 – 26:28
pinyon be applied and how long
26:28 – 26:29
would that protection last?
26:30 – 26:31
Ah, Weston,
26:31 – 26:32
love that question.
26:36 – 26:37
I don't know.
26:40 – 26:43
I don't know. We have two
26:44 – 26:46
observations now, two field
26:46 – 26:48
situations where an
26:49 – 26:51
application of pinion the prior
26:51 – 26:53
year on a perennial crop
26:54 – 26:56
appears to have carried over
26:56 – 26:57
into the following year,
26:58 – 27:00
just as changes of the plant's
27:00 – 27:01
microbiome, changes of plant
27:01 – 27:02
expression,
27:03 – 27:05
where there appears to be
27:05 – 27:08
greater disease resistance the
27:08 – 27:09
following year after
27:09 – 27:10
application. So,
27:12 – 27:13
in the case of perennial crops,
27:13 – 27:14
it
27:16 – 27:18
appears that perhaps with pinion
27:18 – 27:19
applications, we can actually
27:19 – 27:21
change the plants to have some
27:21 – 27:22
longer carryover, long -term
27:22 – 27:23
carryover effects.
27:24 – 27:25
But the challenge with,
27:26 – 27:27
and so the answer of how early
27:27 – 27:28
can it be applied?
27:31 – 27:32
It's not a toxic material.
27:32 – 27:34
You could theoretically apply it
27:34 – 27:34
within
27:35 – 27:36
a week or two after germination.
27:38 – 27:39
How long will that last?
27:40 – 27:42
I don't know. We haven't tried
27:42 – 27:43
it.
27:44 – 27:45
Haven't tried it quite in that
27:45 – 27:46
way.
27:47 – 27:47
And
27:48 – 27:51
the challenge also, and I've
27:51 – 27:52
spoken about this in
27:53 – 27:54
the presentations I did about
27:54 – 27:55
pinion this winter,
27:56 – 27:59
but pinion is turning out to be
27:59 – 28:01
a very broad spectrum, very high
28:01 – 28:02
horsepower material.
28:03 – 28:04
However,
28:06 – 28:07
because
28:08 – 28:09
pinions, all of pinions'
28:09 – 28:11
different modes of action are
28:11 – 28:13
essentially activating the
28:13 – 28:14
plant's own pathways, activating
28:14 – 28:15
plant immune pathways,
28:16 – 28:17
activating genetic pathways,
28:20 – 28:23
altering the plant microbiome
28:23 – 28:24
expression.
28:25 – 28:26
And then of course, there are
28:26 – 28:27
all kinds of interrelated
28:27 – 28:28
effects there that are occurring
28:28 – 28:29
between the plant microbiome and
28:29 – 28:31
the plant genetic expression
28:31 – 28:31
itself as well.
28:32 – 28:33
There's lots of different things
28:33 – 28:35
that happen, but all the degree
28:35 – 28:37
of effectiveness, the degree of
28:37 – 28:38
response
28:39 – 28:41
is heavily influenced by the
28:41 – 28:43
plant's oxidative stress.
28:44 – 28:47
So the greater the exposure to
28:47 – 28:48
oxidative stress,
28:49 – 28:52
the proportionally smaller the
28:52 – 28:53
response to pinion is
28:53 – 28:55
theoretically going to be.
28:55 – 28:58
This is theoretical, but we
28:58 – 29:00
know that there have been
29:00 – 29:02
instances where one grower
29:02 – 29:05
applied pinion and got 10
29:05 – 29:07
weeks of protection against a
29:07 – 29:09
certain disease on a specific
29:09 – 29:09
crop
29:10 – 29:12
and another grower a few hours
29:12 – 29:12
away
29:13 – 29:14
needs to put on four
29:14 – 29:16
applications to get the same
29:16 – 29:18
effect that one grower got from
29:18 – 29:19
one application.
29:19 – 29:20
And it's because of the
29:20 – 29:22
variations in oxidative stress
29:22 – 29:23
that their plants were exposed
29:23 – 29:24
to as a result of
29:24 – 29:26
environment and rainfall and
29:26 – 29:27
what their
29:28 – 29:29
soil was exposed to, their
29:29 – 29:30
degree of soil microbial
29:30 – 29:31
recovery and so forth.
29:32 – 29:33
So
29:33 – 29:36
I think it's just important to
29:36 – 29:37
point out and for us to remember
29:37 – 29:38
that
29:39 – 29:41
your mileage is going to vary.
29:42 – 29:44
And it's kind of this
29:44 – 29:45
interesting catch 22
29:46 – 29:48
of the healthier your soil,
29:49 – 29:51
the more robust your microbiome
29:51 – 29:52
and
29:52 – 29:54
the less oxidative stress your
29:54 – 29:56
plant is under, the greater the
29:56 – 29:57
response you're going to get
29:57 – 29:58
from pinion.
29:59 – 30:00
So that's a different way of
30:00 – 30:00
saying that
30:01 – 30:03
early on in the transition,
30:03 – 30:04
you're going to need more.
30:05 – 30:07
Theoretically, you might need
30:07 – 30:08
more frequent applications to
30:08 – 30:10
produce the same effect
30:10 – 30:12
than someone else might need or
30:12 – 30:13
that you might need a year or
30:13 – 30:14
two down the road.
30:16 – 30:17
There's a question here from
30:17 – 30:20
Jameson Brown. Hi, Jameson.
30:20 – 30:22
Do potassium silicate foliar
30:22 – 30:24
applications provide plant
30:24 – 30:25
available silicon?
30:26 – 30:27
I've seen that potassium
30:27 – 30:28
silicate is effective for
30:28 – 30:29
controlling powdery mildew, but
30:29 – 30:30
it is unclear if this is because
30:30 – 30:32
of the silica improving plant
30:32 – 30:33
health or the high pH directly
30:33 – 30:34
killing the mildew.
30:35 – 30:37
So that would be a good question
30:37 – 30:38
for Field Lark, Jameson, if you
30:38 – 30:40
want to dig deeper into the
30:40 – 30:41
various mechanisms.
30:41 – 30:42
The short answer, as I
30:42 – 30:43
understand it, is that yes, the
30:43 – 30:45
silicon that is in potassium
30:45 – 30:46
silicate is incorporated
30:46 – 30:48
directly into plant cells and
30:48 – 30:48
into cell membranes,
30:49 – 30:52
and that is its mechanism for
30:52 – 30:52
effectiveness.
30:53 – 30:55
And also, if I'm not mistaken,
30:55 – 30:57
I think silicon applications
30:57 – 30:59
applied as a foliar in
31:00 – 31:01
the ionic form, such as
31:01 – 31:02
potassium silicate,
31:03 – 31:05
aren't particularly effective at
31:05 – 31:06
being translocated and moved
31:06 – 31:07
around inside the plant.
31:07 – 31:08
So,
31:08 – 31:10
It is incorporated into plant
31:10 – 31:11
structure,
31:11 – 31:12
so technically you could say
31:12 – 31:13
it's plant available, but I
31:13 – 31:14
don't think it moves around very
31:14 – 31:17
far from wherever it lands.
31:47 – 31:48
It depends on the problem.
31:51 – 31:52
It depends on the problem.
31:52 – 31:54
It depends on the degree of
31:54 – 31:56
economic response that can be
31:56 – 31:58
expected from solving the
31:58 – 31:58
problem.
31:59 – 32:00
So, for example,
32:00 – 32:01
if
32:01 – 32:03
your entire soil systemically is
32:03 – 32:06
low in cobalt or low in selenium
32:06 – 32:07
or low in boron,
32:08 – 32:09
then in
32:09 – 32:11
most cases you produce a large
32:11 – 32:13
enough economic crop response to
32:13 – 32:15
justify treating the entire
32:15 – 32:17
thing and just treating the bulk
32:17 – 32:19
soil environment and correcting
32:19 – 32:21
whatever deficiencies exist.
32:22 – 32:23
Same holds true of zinc.
32:23 – 32:24
number of different trace
32:24 – 32:25
minerals.
32:26 – 32:27
But if we're talking about a
32:27 – 32:28
calcium application, you have
32:28 – 32:30
high CEC soils, and you're
32:30 – 32:31
growing wheat
32:32 – 32:33
in
32:34 – 32:35
Washington or Oregon,
32:37 – 32:37
and it takes,
32:38 – 32:39
mathematically, it takes five
32:39 – 32:42
tons of tons or 15 tons of
32:42 – 32:43
limestone to
32:44 – 32:46
correct soil pH and calcium
32:46 – 32:47
issues,
32:48 – 32:49
then no, of course, it doesn't
32:49 – 32:50
compute.
32:50 – 32:51
It doesn't work mathematically.
32:52 – 32:53
So how do you solve that?
32:54 – 32:55
In that scenario,
32:56 – 32:57
I would suggest,
32:58 – 33:00
this is a real -world example
33:00 – 33:01
that lots of people experience.
33:02 – 33:03
In that scenario, I would
33:03 – 33:04
suggest
33:04 – 33:06
banding applications at planting
33:06 – 33:08
or before planting with a strip
33:08 – 33:10
-till unit if that is feasible
33:10 – 33:11
and makes sense.
33:11 – 33:13
Because then you can create a
33:13 – 33:16
localized zone and that is where
33:16 – 33:17
you produce the economic
33:17 – 33:18
response. So really I would
33:18 – 33:20
suggest you should think about
33:20 – 33:20
it in terms of economics.
33:20 – 33:21
What
33:22 – 33:23
produces the economic crop
33:23 – 33:25
response and gives you a pathway
33:25 – 33:26
to longer term remediation.
33:31 – 33:32
Last question, what do you
33:32 – 33:33
consider are the most effective
33:33 – 33:35
and practical steps to improving
33:35 – 33:37
soil microbial communities and
33:37 – 33:38
are there any common
33:42 – 33:43
Are there any common myths to
33:43 – 33:43
watch out for?
33:46 – 33:48
I could talk about this one for
33:48 – 33:49
a while.
33:49 – 33:51
I won't. But what
33:51 – 33:52
are the most effective and
33:52 – 33:54
practical steps for improving
33:54 – 33:55
soil communities?
33:55 – 33:57
Number one is
33:57 – 34:00
plant species diversity,
34:00 – 34:02
plant family diversity.
34:05 – 34:06
Soil microbial community doesn't
34:06 – 34:08
thrive well in a monoculture.
34:12 – 34:13
Or maybe a better way to say it
34:13 – 34:15
would be that it becomes very
34:15 – 34:16
specialized in long -term
34:16 – 34:17
monocultures, which usually
34:17 – 34:19
isn't associated with optimal
34:19 – 34:20
soil health, at least not from
34:20 – 34:21
an agricultural perspective.
34:23 – 34:24
And so
34:26 – 34:28
plant species diversity,
34:29 – 34:30
I would say, is number one.
34:31 – 34:32
And then you
34:33 – 34:35
can add microbial diversity.
34:36 – 34:37
when seeding.
34:37 – 34:40
That is the greatest ROI
34:40 – 34:42
application that
34:42 – 34:44
we see consistently across
34:44 – 34:46
almost all types of
34:46 – 34:47
applications. Putting on a
34:47 – 34:49
microbial inoculant at seeding
34:49 – 34:50
is critical.
34:52 – 34:53
And then what are the myths to
34:53 – 34:54
watch out for?
34:55 – 34:56
Well,
34:57 – 34:58
there are two big ones.
35:03 – 35:05
One is—two big ones that I see.
35:05 – 35:07
One of them is targeted towards
35:07 – 35:09
compost tea applications, and
35:09 – 35:11
one of them is towards purchased
35:13 – 35:13
inoculants.
35:15 – 35:16
The
35:16 – 35:17
one myth is that
35:18 – 35:20
putting on a purchased inoculant
35:20 – 35:21
at
35:21 – 35:23
small application rates of a few
35:23 – 35:25
pints or a quarter, or actually
35:25 – 35:28
in this case, this myth is also
35:28 – 35:29
extended to compost tea, is that
35:29 – 35:31
whatever you apply out there
35:31 – 35:32
is meaningless,
35:33 – 35:34
and it's going to be consumed by
35:34 – 35:36
the native soil ecology.
35:36 – 35:38
and microbiology and it will
35:38 – 35:39
disappear in a matter of hours
35:39 – 35:41
or days or weeks and have no
35:41 – 35:42
effect.
35:42 – 35:43
I
35:45 – 35:45
beg to differ,
35:46 – 35:47
and I would suggest that the
35:47 – 35:49
evidence also has a different
35:49 – 35:51
perspective because you
35:51 – 35:52
look at the
35:54 – 35:55
history of the use of
35:55 – 35:57
mycorrhizal fungi or of the use
35:57 – 35:58
of rhizobium bacteria.
35:59 – 36:01
I mean, it's common industry
36:01 – 36:02
standard practice to
36:03 – 36:05
inoculate legume seeds with one
36:05 – 36:06
single strain of bacteria,
36:07 – 36:08
rhizobium.
36:08 – 36:10
of course, a specific rhizobium
36:10 – 36:11
strain or species that is
36:11 – 36:12
selected for the particular
36:12 – 36:13
crop.
36:14 – 36:16
But we put on this application
36:16 – 36:17
and
36:17 – 36:19
we expect to see nodulation.
36:20 – 36:22
We consider this visual
36:22 – 36:23
confirmation of the inoculation
36:23 – 36:24
being successful.
36:24 – 36:26
And we also know that when we
36:26 – 36:27
grow a legume crop in the exact
36:27 – 36:29
same soil over multiple cycles,
36:30 – 36:31
that over time the inoculation
36:31 – 36:33
becomes less necessary,
36:34 – 36:36
but still beneficial to the
36:36 – 36:38
point where almost universally
36:38 – 36:39
most legume seed is treated
36:39 – 36:40
today.
36:41 – 36:42
So,
36:43 – 36:45
and that's an application of
36:45 – 36:48
tiny amounts of a single species
36:48 – 36:49
inoculant that is effective.
36:50 – 36:51
So that's one myth.
36:51 – 36:53
Another myth is,
36:54 – 36:55
well,
36:57 – 36:59
I kind of already addressed it
36:59 – 37:01
with the brazobium, but another
37:01 – 37:01
myth is that
37:02 – 37:04
And a purchased inoculant with
37:04 – 37:06
only a few strains cannot be
37:06 – 37:07
successful.
37:07 – 37:09
Rhizobium is Exhibit A.
37:09 – 37:11
Mycorrhizal fungi inoculants are
37:11 – 37:12
Exhibit B.
37:12 – 37:14
There's a number of others.
37:14 – 37:15
Yes,
37:14 – 37:16
single species, single strain.
37:17 – 37:18
It's not ideal.
37:18 – 37:18
It's not how nature works.
37:19 – 37:19
Generally, it works in
37:19 – 37:20
consortiums and in communities.
37:21 – 37:22
But single species can be
37:22 – 37:23
impactful and they can make a
37:23 – 37:24
difference. And products with
37:24 – 37:26
only a few strains in them can
37:26 – 37:27
also be very impactful.
37:28 – 37:29
And then
37:29 – 37:32
there's also on
37:32 – 37:34
compost teas,
37:35 – 37:36
I think
37:38 – 37:40
Another common myth is,
37:40 – 37:42
and this applies to both compost
37:42 – 37:45
tea and purchased inoculants.
37:46 – 37:48
Most compost teas and most
37:48 – 37:50
purchased inoculants do not
37:50 – 37:51
address
37:51 – 37:53
95 % of the soil microbiome.
37:54 – 37:55
Why?
37:56 – 37:57
The very simple reason is that
37:57 – 37:58
the majority of the microbiome
37:58 – 38:01
can only be propagated in the
38:01 – 38:02
presence of living plant roots,
38:04 – 38:06
not in a compost pile and
38:06 – 38:07
not in a laboratory,
38:08 – 38:09
unless the laboratory is growing
38:09 – 38:11
plants to propagate microbes.
38:11 – 38:12
And there are some laboratories
38:12 – 38:13
that do.
38:13 – 38:14
That's how biocode gold,
38:15 – 38:17
some of the materials and source
38:17 – 38:18
materials in biocode gold get
38:18 – 38:19
propagated.
38:20 – 38:23
So actually growing plants in
38:23 – 38:25
compost piles and doing those
38:25 – 38:26
things. of things as the second
38:26 – 38:28
stage of inoculant development,
38:28 – 38:29
I think, are very important.
38:38 – 38:39
Question here from Thomas.
38:39 – 38:41
I'm breeding squash on less than
38:41 – 38:42
ideal soil,
38:42 – 38:44
sandy and low pH 5 .2.
38:45 – 38:47
Moschata, butternut, etc.
38:47 – 38:49
does well, but Maxima,
38:49 – 38:51
Cucurbita maxima, is
38:51 – 38:52
ridiculously fragile, like
38:52 – 38:55
collapsing post first fruit when
38:55 – 38:56
the soil runs dry.
38:57 – 38:59
Before losing any hopes of
38:59 – 39:00
maxima, I have this special one.
39:00 – 39:01
In 2026, I'm planning to use
39:01 – 39:03
biocode gold and the seeds of my
39:03 – 39:05
composite cross -population to
39:05 – 39:06
reveal early in -season
39:06 – 39:07
biological intelligence
39:07 – 39:08
capacities,
39:08 – 39:09
the ability to foster
39:09 – 39:11
partnerships with biology,
39:11 – 39:13
using biocode gold as a
39:13 – 39:14
magnifying glass of those
39:14 – 39:15
capacities.
39:16 – 39:18
Do you think it's a correct look
39:18 – 39:20
at biocode gold abilities?
39:20 – 39:21
Um,
39:22 – 39:23
yes.
39:24 – 39:25
Hmm.
39:25 – 39:26
Thomas, this,
39:27 – 39:27
I enjoy,
39:29 – 39:30
One of my fascinations of the
39:30 – 39:31
things that I would like to do,
39:31 – 39:33
but will probably never get to
39:33 – 39:35
in this lifetime, is looking at
39:35 – 39:37
plant breeding and the
39:37 – 39:38
opportunities with plant
39:38 – 39:39
breeding. So I
39:40 – 39:41
don't know what breeding
39:41 – 39:43
direction you have gone, what
39:43 – 39:45
selection criteria you have been
39:45 – 39:45
selecting for,
39:46 – 39:47
but
39:47 – 39:50
it can be very valuable to look
39:50 – 39:51
at
39:50 – 39:52
the ability to colonize with
39:52 – 39:53
biocook goal. I know this is
39:53 – 39:56
something that Bass Hybrids has
39:56 – 39:56
been looking at,
39:57 – 39:58
and they found
39:58 – 40:00
that, to their surprise,
40:01 – 40:04
some varieties didn't show
40:05 – 40:07
good effects of mycorrhizal
40:07 – 40:08
colonization.
40:08 – 40:09
And intriguingly enough,
40:10 – 40:12
this is where we're constantly
40:12 – 40:13
learning,
40:14 – 40:16
constantly new things to refine,
40:16 – 40:17
but intriguingly enough, the
40:17 – 40:19
varieties that didn't
40:20 – 40:22
form effective colonization with
40:22 – 40:23
mycorrhizae, not just
40:23 – 40:24
biocotechol, by the way, but
40:24 – 40:25
also other mycorrhizae that they
40:25 – 40:26
tested it on,
40:27 – 40:29
was one of the varieties that
40:29 – 40:31
had the richest native
40:31 – 40:33
microbiome vectored inside the
40:33 – 40:34
seed,
40:35 – 40:37
and that it had its own very
40:37 – 40:38
robust microbiome.
40:38 – 40:39
So there's
40:40 – 40:41
lots of interesting things for
40:41 – 40:42
us to keep learning about.
40:44 – 40:45
Question here from Mark.
40:45 – 40:47
I have a question about frost
40:47 – 40:49
and boron use at a high rate of
40:49 – 40:50
three pounds to the acre.
40:50 – 40:52
I think you were talking about
40:52 – 40:53
in a previous podcast.
40:54 – 40:56
Also, we are trialing
40:56 – 40:57
Pseudomonas fluorescens with
40:57 – 40:58
potassium silicate for frost
40:58 – 40:59
protection on turf grass in
40:59 – 41:00
Australia. Do you have any
41:00 – 41:02
suggestions or thoughts in
41:02 – 41:02
regards to this?
41:04 – 41:05
I
41:08 – 41:09
think you're on the right track
41:09 – 41:11
with potassium.
41:12 – 41:13
I don't know if potassium
41:13 – 41:14
silicate is the right source.
41:14 – 41:15
Well, let me say it this way.
41:15 – 41:16
I would suggest that in addition
41:16 – 41:18
to potassium silicate, you also
41:18 – 41:18
need to make sure that you have
41:18 – 41:20
adequate potassium levels
41:21 – 41:22
nutritionally inside the plant,
41:22 – 41:23
which the potassium silicate may
41:23 – 41:24
or may not provide.
41:26 – 41:27
Pseudomonas fluorescens as a
41:27 – 41:28
crystallization or nucleation
41:28 – 41:30
material can
41:31 – 41:32
be interesting to look at.
41:32 – 41:34
I don't have a lot of experience
41:34 – 41:34
with this.
41:35 – 41:36
But why
41:39 – 41:40
do you need frost protection for
41:40 – 41:41
turfgrass?
41:44 – 41:46
That's kind of the first
41:46 – 41:47
question that comes to mind is I
41:48 – 41:51
obviously I have no I have no
41:51 – 41:53
knowledge of your context,
41:55 – 41:57
but maybe it's a tropical grass
41:57 – 41:58
or something like that.
41:58 – 41:59
But usually when I think about
41:59 – 42:00
turfgrass, it can handle
42:01 – 42:02
cold quite readily.
42:02 – 42:03
If it's that susceptible to
42:03 – 42:05
frost damage then it's probably
42:05 – 42:06
overloaded with nitrogen would
42:06 – 42:07
be
42:07 – 42:09
my guess, but there's obviously
42:09 – 42:10
something that I don't know
42:10 – 42:11
about the situation.
42:12 – 42:14
In terms of boron applications,
42:16 – 42:17
the threshold that we're looking
42:17 – 42:19
for is three parts per million
42:19 – 42:20
boron for
42:20 – 42:21
a thousand parts per million
42:21 – 42:22
calcium.
42:23 – 42:25
And yes, that will substantially
42:25 – 42:26
increase your
42:27 – 42:28
freezing susceptibility.
42:31 – 42:32
It's a question here from Daryl.
42:32 – 42:33
How would you transition a
42:33 – 42:35
coastal Bermuda hay meadow from
42:35 – 42:36
synthetic nitrogen to
42:36 – 42:37
biologically supplied nitrogen
42:38 – 42:39
since nitrate fertilizers are
42:39 – 42:41
best for vegetative growth?
42:42 – 42:43
Is that the best source to use
42:43 – 42:46
on coastal Bermuda in spite of
42:46 – 42:46
its additional water
42:46 – 42:48
requirements? Water is
42:48 – 42:48
frequently an issue.
42:52 – 42:54
Daryl, I've spoken
42:56 – 42:57
at several of these webinars
42:57 – 42:58
where I've talked about a
42:58 – 43:00
nitrogen application protocol,
43:01 – 43:04
and I would treat it similar to
43:04 – 43:05
a corn crop
43:05 – 43:07
in terms of I would bind
43:07 – 43:09
the nitrogen with humic
43:09 – 43:10
substances,
43:10 – 43:12
add sulfur, add molybdenum,
43:12 – 43:14
add some carbon to it,
43:14 – 43:16
and spread it out over time.
43:16 – 43:18
And that process
43:19 – 43:21
And then also in parallel with
43:21 – 43:22
that, use microbial inoculants
43:22 – 43:23
that have the ability to fix
43:23 – 43:24
nitrogen,
43:25 – 43:26
obviously applied separately,
43:26 – 43:27
not in the same tank.
43:28 – 43:31
And that's really the pathway is
43:31 – 43:32
providing an on -ramp for
43:32 – 43:33
biology while you slowly provide
43:33 – 43:35
an off -ramp for the chemistry
43:35 – 43:36
nitrogen.
43:37 – 43:37
And then
43:38 – 43:39
you're in a high temperature
43:39 – 43:41
environment. So the reality is
43:41 – 43:42
whatever form of nitrogen you
43:42 – 43:44
apply, large amounts of it are
43:44 – 43:46
going to oxidize and convert to
43:46 – 43:47
nitrate fairly rapidly.
43:48 – 43:51
And I wouldn't
43:52 – 43:53
I don't think it's necessarily,
43:53 – 43:54
I'm trying to think, coastal
43:54 – 43:55
Bermuda grass, if I'm not
43:55 – 43:57
mistaken, I'm pretty sure it's a
43:57 – 43:59
C4 photosynthetic pathway plant.
43:59 – 44:00
If that is correct,
44:01 – 44:02
then
44:02 – 44:03
it's optimal.
44:05 – 44:07
It's optimal ratio for
44:08 – 44:11
optimal use. and optimal health
44:11 – 44:12
and performance is not going to
44:12 – 44:14
be 100 % nitrate.
44:14 – 44:15
It's more likely to be somewhere
44:15 – 44:16
in the neighborhood of about 60
44:16 – 44:18
to 70 % ammonium and the
44:18 – 44:18
remainder in nitrate.
44:19 – 44:20
And that's of course completely
44:20 – 44:22
disregarding and not considering
44:22 – 44:23
biological nitrogen supply.
44:27 – 44:28
Question here from Carlos.
44:29 – 44:30
Farm a pistachio orchard in
44:30 – 44:31
Central California,
44:32 – 44:33
Central Valley.
44:33 – 44:35
Soil has extremely high sodium
44:35 – 44:37
and the well water does as well.
44:37 – 44:39
I inject sulfuric acid into the
44:39 – 44:41
well water to lower water pH.
44:41 – 44:42
I have also balanced my calcium
44:42 – 44:43
and magnesium.
44:44 – 44:45
It seems as though the sodium is
44:45 – 44:46
still a problem.
44:46 – 44:47
Is there a solution to this
44:47 – 44:48
situation? Yes.
44:49 – 44:50
Yes, Carlos,
44:50 – 44:51
there is a solution.
44:52 – 44:54
And this is this is the this
44:57 – 44:58
is obviously, of course, as you
44:58 – 45:00
know, a very common widespread
45:00 – 45:02
shared problem in the region.
45:04 – 45:05
So there are there are two
45:05 – 45:06
levels to two types of
45:06 – 45:07
solutions.
45:09 – 45:10
One is we
45:12 – 45:13
know that there are different
45:13 – 45:14
soil additives and soil
45:14 – 45:16
amendments that can help.
45:17 – 45:19
remove and leach sodium out.
45:20 – 45:21
And
45:21 – 45:23
there's all kinds of people with
45:23 – 45:25
common recommendations to apply
45:25 – 45:26
gypsum. There's common
45:26 – 45:28
recommendations to apply humic
45:28 – 45:29
substances.
45:29 – 45:31
And then we've experimented
45:31 – 45:33
extensively with a microbial
45:33 – 45:35
inoculant called Spectrum DS.
45:36 – 45:37
And we get the most,
45:37 – 45:39
the greatest effects when we
45:39 – 45:40
combine all three of those
45:40 – 45:41
things together.
45:41 – 45:42
It's definitely a case of one
45:42 – 45:44
plus one plus one equaling
45:44 – 45:45
something more than three.
45:45 – 45:48
If you put on gypsum plus humic
45:48 – 45:49
substances plus Spectrum,
45:50 – 45:51
you get
45:51 – 45:53
a much greater response than you
45:53 – 45:55
do from applying any of those
45:55 – 45:56
products alone or applying them
45:56 – 45:57
at different times.
45:59 – 46:01
So that's one piece that I would
46:01 – 46:02
look at. But then the other
46:02 – 46:03
piece I would look at
46:05 – 46:07
the story was shared with
46:08 – 46:10
a grower in your region.
46:10 – 46:12
I don't know if you would care
46:12 – 46:13
to be named or not, so I'll keep
46:13 – 46:14
the name to myself for right
46:14 – 46:15
now, but
46:15 – 46:17
a fairly large vegetable farming
46:17 – 46:18
operation that you would
46:18 – 46:19
immediately recognize.
46:20 – 46:21
And
46:21 – 46:23
they were working with green
46:23 – 46:24
cover seed
46:24 – 46:27
to incorporate cover crops.
46:27 – 46:28
They were doing cover crops
46:28 – 46:30
around tomatoes and I
46:31 – 46:32
forget the full spectrum of
46:32 – 46:33
their crop lineup.
46:33 – 46:35
I want to say tomatoes and
46:35 – 46:37
peppers and perhaps some melons
46:37 – 46:38
and some other things.
46:38 – 46:39
I'm no longer entirely sure.
46:40 – 46:42
But they grew a diverse mix of
46:42 – 46:43
cover crop species,
46:44 – 46:45
eight plus species,
46:46 – 46:48
for two growing seasons, if I
46:48 – 46:49
have my story straight.
46:51 – 46:51
And I
46:52 – 46:53
want to say for two growing
46:53 – 46:54
seasons, I'm not talking the
46:54 – 46:55
entire season. I'm talking they
46:55 – 46:57
grew a single cover crop in the
46:57 – 46:59
winter months between their
46:59 – 46:59
vegetable crops.
47:02 – 47:04
Following the second crop, there
47:04 – 47:05
was a reduction in sodium levels
47:05 – 47:06
following the first crop, and
47:06 – 47:08
there was a further reduction in
47:08 – 47:09
sodium
47:09 – 47:12
by upwards of 80 % in
47:13 – 47:14
the soil following the second
47:14 – 47:15
cover crop.
47:15 – 47:17
And I've spent a lot of time
47:17 – 47:19
talking about and thinking about
47:19 – 47:21
quorum sensing and how these
47:21 – 47:23
diverse species of plants
47:23 – 47:25
produce a quorum sensing
47:25 – 47:27
microbiome that can actually
47:27 – 47:29
change soil chemistry and can
47:29 – 47:31
change soil nutrient balance.
47:32 – 47:33
So that was quite a remarkable
47:33 – 47:34
response.
47:34 – 47:35
And if you want to dig deeper,
47:36 – 47:38
Carlos, I would suggest having a
47:38 – 47:39
conversation with James Johnson
47:40 – 47:41
in
47:42 – 47:44
Arizona, who has some of the
47:44 – 47:46
most difficult water quality
47:46 – 47:47
that I have ever
47:47 – 47:48
observed.
47:49 – 47:51
And he's also had his water
47:51 – 47:52
quality looked at by many
47:52 – 47:53
irrigation technicians who've
47:53 – 47:54
shared that perspective.
47:56 – 47:57
And he is also growing
47:57 – 47:58
pistachios.
48:00 – 48:02
And actually his pistachios in
48:02 – 48:04
Arizona in an arid environment
48:04 – 48:05
have,
48:07 – 48:08
I almost want to say they're now
48:08 – 48:09
without irrigation, have been
48:09 – 48:12
for several years as a result of
48:12 – 48:13
the cover crops and the sheep
48:13 – 48:14
grazing and the things that he
48:14 – 48:16
are doing. So I think that would
48:16 – 48:17
be a conversation that would be
48:17 – 48:18
very worthwhile having.
48:21 – 48:23
Question here from Dallas.
48:26 – 48:28
I've observed that even with
48:28 – 48:29
high -quality biologicals, it is
48:29 – 48:31
incredibly difficult to break
48:31 – 48:33
into that established stool and
48:33 – 48:36
re -establish the same high
48:36 – 48:37
-functioning symbiosis we see
48:37 – 48:38
when
48:38 – 48:39
planting cane.
48:40 – 48:42
This seems to be a primary
48:42 – 48:44
driver of the raccoon yield
48:44 – 48:46
decline and perhaps a reason why
48:46 – 48:47
sugarcane is often left out of
48:47 – 48:49
the regenerative conversation.
48:50 – 48:51
In your experience with
48:51 – 48:52
perennial grasses or multi -year
48:52 – 48:53
systems, how do we solve this
48:53 – 48:55
holy grail of re -inoculating in
48:55 – 48:56
an existing stool?
49:00 – 49:01
Do you
49:01 – 49:03
see
49:05 – 49:06
any future in the regenerative
49:06 – 49:06
space for these cropping
49:06 – 49:07
systems?
49:09 – 49:09
Yes,
49:10 – 49:11
there are people who are working
49:11 – 49:12
with sugarcane who have figured
49:12 – 49:12
this out.
49:13 – 49:14
I think your
49:15 – 49:17
observation is correct, but I
49:17 – 49:18
think you're asking the wrong
49:18 – 49:19
question, Dallas.
49:19 – 49:20
I think the
49:20 – 49:22
question is not, how can we
49:22 – 49:24
inoculate? How can we re
49:24 – 49:26
-inoculate and re -establish the
49:26 – 49:27
same high -functioning
49:27 – 49:27
symbiosis?
49:30 – 49:31
The real question is, how can we
49:31 – 49:32
keep from losing it in the first
49:32 – 49:33
place?
49:34 – 49:35
That's the question.
49:35 – 49:36
We answer that question.
49:36 – 49:38
We don't need to re -establish
49:38 – 49:39
it.
49:39 – 49:42
And I think the answer,
49:43 – 49:44
well, it depends on the
49:44 – 49:45
operational context, of course,
49:45 – 49:46
but
49:46 – 49:48
herbicide and fungicide
49:48 – 49:50
applications play a significant
49:50 – 49:50
role.
49:51 – 49:52
And the
49:53 – 49:54
proportion of sugars that get
49:55 – 49:56
out through the root system to
49:56 – 49:59
sustain biology also plays a
49:59 – 50:00
role.
50:00 – 50:01
But the big role is pesticide
50:01 – 50:02
applications.
50:03 – 50:04
If we can change how
50:05 – 50:07
we're managing diseases and how
50:07 – 50:08
we're managing insects so that
50:08 – 50:10
we get effective, particularly
50:10 – 50:12
diseases, we get effective
50:12 – 50:13
control of diseases with
50:13 – 50:14
nutrition management and we
50:14 – 50:16
reduce fungicide applications or
50:16 – 50:17
eliminate fungicide applications
50:18 – 50:20
and we eliminate herbicide
50:20 – 50:20
applications,
50:21 – 50:22
that's the pathway.
50:23 – 50:25
to no longer needing to re
50:25 – 50:27
-establish inoculation.
50:31 – 50:32
Follow -up question from
50:32 – 50:33
Jameson. How can we treat hard
50:33 – 50:35
water for use in foliar sprays
50:35 – 50:37
if we don't have an RO water
50:37 – 50:38
purifier?
50:40 – 50:41
You have two options.
50:41 – 50:42
Option A is to collect
50:42 – 50:43
rainwater.
50:43 – 50:46
Option B is to buy an RO water
50:46 – 50:47
purifier.
50:48 – 50:49
If you don't have one, get one.
50:51 – 50:51
That's
50:52 – 50:53
how you treat hard water.
50:53 – 50:54
I mean,
50:54 – 50:55
sure, there are things you can
50:55 – 50:57
do by adding acidifiers to water
50:57 – 50:59
and things like that, but
51:01 – 51:02
the crop response is not the
51:02 – 51:04
same as when you work with clean
51:04 – 51:05
water.
51:07 – 51:08
All right, we've got time for
51:08 – 51:09
one more question.
51:10 – 51:11
Got
51:15 – 51:15
a question here from Becky
51:15 – 51:17
Painter. Can you please explain
51:17 – 51:20
in greater detail why putting
51:20 – 51:21
too much fresh,
51:21 – 51:23
non -decomposed organic matter
51:23 – 51:25
on top of or mixed into soil
51:25 – 51:27
soon before planting ties up
51:27 – 51:28
nitrogen and
51:28 – 51:31
causes the burn and how that can
51:31 – 51:32
be prevented?
51:33 – 51:34
Can more nutrients like
51:34 – 51:35
molasses,
51:35 – 51:37
fish, emulsion, or milk be added
51:37 – 51:39
to that mix to increase the
51:39 – 51:40
available nitrogen so the
51:40 – 51:41
microbes don't run out?
51:41 – 51:43
Is it a carbon to nitrogen ratio
51:43 – 51:44
problem?
51:45 – 51:46
Isn't organic matter good for
51:46 – 51:48
the soil? Is it lack of microbes
51:48 – 51:49
that turn it over?
51:50 – 51:50
All right.
51:50 – 51:51
So,
51:56 – 51:58
Becky, I wish I knew more or had
51:58 – 52:00
more context for specifically
52:00 – 52:02
what problems and challenges you
52:02 – 52:03
are encountering and how you're
52:03 – 52:04
encountering them.
52:04 – 52:05
But the
52:05 – 52:08
short answer is there
52:10 – 52:12
are two different things that
52:12 – 52:13
can happen.
52:14 – 52:15
One is,
52:16 – 52:17
yes, you can have a carbon and
52:17 – 52:19
nitrogen ratio problem where
52:19 – 52:21
let's say if you let rye
52:21 – 52:22
residue,
52:22 – 52:24
let's say rye gets too tall,
52:24 – 52:26
before it's roller crimped.
52:26 – 52:28
And you have a broad carbon and
52:28 – 52:29
nitrogen ratio.
52:30 – 52:32
That broad C to N ratio can
52:32 – 52:35
absolutely tie up nitrogen in
52:35 – 52:35
the soil
52:36 – 52:38
as in the process of that
52:38 – 52:39
residue decomposition and in the
52:39 – 52:41
process of root biomass
52:41 – 52:42
decomposition.
52:43 – 52:44
And that can create a nitrogen
52:44 – 52:46
deficiency in the following crop
52:46 – 52:47
in the short term,
52:48 – 52:49
at the beginning of the growing
52:49 – 52:49
season, right when it's needed
52:49 – 52:51
the most to get things started
52:51 – 52:52
in a healthy manner.
52:52 – 52:53
So that can happen.
52:55 – 52:56
That may be slightly different
52:56 – 52:57
from the question that you're
52:57 – 52:58
asking, though.
52:59 – 53:00
There's another possibility
53:00 – 53:01
which is if you have
53:04 – 53:04
fresh,
53:04 – 53:06
if you have narrow carbon and
53:06 – 53:08
nitrogen ratio material, let's
53:08 – 53:09
say you have a lush green cover
53:09 – 53:10
crop that's at a vegetative
53:10 – 53:12
growth stage and you incorporate
53:12 – 53:13
it into the soil shallowly
53:14 – 53:15
in the top couple of inches,
53:16 – 53:19
there is a short -term effect
53:19 – 53:20
where,
53:21 – 53:22
and this is something I don't
53:22 – 53:23
have a ton of personal
53:23 – 53:24
experience with,
53:25 – 53:27
I'm just passing on observations
53:27 – 53:28
and experiences from other
53:28 – 53:29
growers,
53:30 – 53:32
The general consensus is that
53:32 – 53:35
you have two planting windows.
53:35 – 53:37
Either A is you till it and you
53:37 – 53:38
plant immediately,
53:39 – 53:40
or B,
53:40 – 53:42
you have to wait to allow some
53:42 – 53:44
of that residue to decompose and
53:44 – 53:45
to break down.
53:45 – 53:47
a period of five to seven days,
53:47 – 53:48
and in some cases longer.
53:48 – 53:50
There is variations based on
53:50 – 53:51
what you're incorporating in
53:51 – 53:52
soil moisture levels and so
53:52 – 53:53
forth.
53:53 – 53:55
But what can happen in that
53:55 – 53:56
context is
53:57 – 53:59
you've just incorporated rich
53:59 – 54:00
green organic matter into the
54:00 – 54:01
soil,
54:01 – 54:03
and soil biology, particularly
54:03 – 54:04
bacterial populations, are going
54:04 – 54:06
to consume that very, very
54:06 – 54:07
rapidly.
54:07 – 54:08
And so you get this bacterial
54:08 – 54:10
population explosion.
54:10 – 54:11
You essentially, you have
54:11 – 54:13
you have this fermentation that
54:13 – 54:14
occurs in the soil.
54:15 – 54:16
And
54:16 – 54:17
that
54:17 – 54:20
rapid digestive process will
54:20 – 54:23
temporarily bind up minerals and
54:23 – 54:24
nutrients.
54:24 – 54:26
And I think this is something
54:26 – 54:27
that Irwin Westers spoke
54:28 – 54:30
about in my podcast interview,
54:30 – 54:31
some of the work that they're
54:31 – 54:32
doing in Europe.
54:32 – 54:33
There's lots of interesting, if
54:33 – 54:35
this
54:36 – 54:38
effect is concentrated enough in
54:38 – 54:39
a small amount,
54:39 – 54:40
small
54:41 – 54:42
enough volume of
54:43 – 54:43
soil,
54:44 – 54:46
then it will actually,
54:47 – 54:47
first of all, it completely
54:47 – 54:49
changes the microbiome in that
54:49 – 54:50
concentrated zone,
54:50 – 54:52
but it will also actively go
54:52 – 54:54
after pests and diseases,
54:55 – 54:57
insect larvae, pupae, eggs,
54:58 – 54:59
nematodes, and so forth.
55:00 – 55:01
It will actively go after pests
55:01 – 55:02
in that environment.
55:02 – 55:04
And in that process, it's also
55:04 – 55:05
tying up a lot of nutrition,
55:06 – 55:07
not just nitrogen, but calcium
55:07 – 55:08
and other elements that are
55:08 – 55:10
contained within microbial
55:10 – 55:10
cells.
55:11 – 55:14
So that is also a process that
55:14 – 55:15
can occur.
55:16 – 55:18
So I want to say thank you to
55:18 – 55:19
all of you for submitting your
55:19 – 55:20
questions, for being here for
55:20 – 55:22
the hour. I hope you've found
55:22 – 55:24
the information valuable and
55:24 – 55:24
useful.
55:25 – 55:27
And if I didn't get to your
55:27 – 55:28
question or if you have any
55:28 – 55:29
further follow -up questions,
55:30 – 55:31
I
55:31 – 55:32
would say there's two options.
55:33 – 55:33
One
55:33 – 55:36
is sign up for FieldLark.
55:36 – 55:37
Go to fieldlark .ai.
55:38 – 55:40
We've developed that AI.
55:40 – 55:41
to be able to answer lots of
55:41 – 55:42
people's questions.
55:42 – 55:44
So please dig into that.
55:44 – 55:46
And you
55:46 – 55:47
can also sign up for our
55:47 – 55:49
newsletter and submit any
55:49 – 55:50
further questions.
55:50 – 55:52
And I'm sure this spring
55:52 – 55:54
season, I'm no longer traveling
55:54 – 55:56
as intensely as I did this last
55:56 – 55:57
winter for conference season.
55:57 – 55:58
And I'll
55:58 – 56:00
have these Ask Me Anything
56:00 – 56:01
sessions frequently and respond
56:01 – 56:02
to your questions.
56:02 – 56:03
So
56:03 – 56:04
thank you all for being here.
56:04 – 56:06
And here's to a great growing
56:06 – 56:06
season.
56:06 – 56:08
May your rainfalls be timely,
56:08 – 56:11
and may diseases and insects go
56:11 – 56:13
to another place that is not in
56:13 – 56:14
your field, and may you have a
56:14 – 56:15
happy growing season.
56:15 – 56:16
Thank you all.
