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In this Podcast Extra, Join John as he answers a wide range of grower-submitted questions covering challenges in agriculture. The discussion focuses on managing high summer leaf temperatures, optimizing organic nitrogen budgets, and navigating severe base saturation imbalances. John emphasizes the critical connection between precise crop nutrition, active soil biology, and the natural suppression of destructive diseases and pests.
Other topics discussed include:
- Managing nutrition and the microbiome through AEA’s integrated approach to help achieve crop resistance to spotted wing drosophila in berries.
- Reducing pecan scab and weevil pressure by balancing trace minerals and applying AEA products like Pinion and PhotoMag.
- Evaluating plant metabolism and internal health by measuring sugar levels, EC, and pH/EH homeostasis on a sap analysis.
- Managing almond bloom diseases and pests like navel orange worm using AEA’s Pinion alongside targeted applications of calcium and boron.
- Executing safe foliar applications of solubilized urea by managing overall solution concentration and electrolyte levels to prevent crop leaf burn.
- Improving late-season calcium absorption in fruit crops through soil shading and foliar boron applications.
- Pre-blending AEA nutritional products before spraying to create a synergistic response because the formulations are designed to support living biology.
- Addressing insect pests like the apple borer using a foliar combination of AEA’s PhotoMag, Rejuvenate, and Rebound Boron.
- Mitigating crop damage from herbicide drift using AEA products like SeaStim, MacroPak, MicroPak, HoloCal, and Rebound minerals to bind chelating herbicide molecules.
- Utilizing micronized mineral products like AEA’s Accelerate and HoloCal to deliver fast results as leaf-surface microbes rapidly metabolize the minerals.
- Generating disproportionate crop responses in soil by fertigating and feeding rhizosphere microbes with the same consistency as foliar feeding.
- Increasing lipid levels in pasture forage through adequate soil levels of calcium, sulfur, and boron combined with strategic grazing management.
- Understanding how high sodium and chloride accumulation distorts refractometer brix readings by inflating total dissolved solids rather than indicating pure sugar content.
About John Kempf
A top expert in biological and regenerative farming, John founded AEA in 2006 to help fellow farmers by providing the education, tools, and strategies that will have a global effect on the food supply and those who grow it. Through intense study and the knowledge gleaned from many industry leaders, John is building a comprehensive systems-based approach to plant nutrition – a system solidly based on the sciences of plant physiology, mineral nutrition, and soil microbiology.
Support For This Show & Helping You Grow
Since 2006, AEA has been on a mission to help growers become more resilient, efficient, and profitable with regenerative agriculture. AEA works directly with growers to apply its unique line of liquid mineral crop nutrition products and biological inoculants. Informed by cutting-edge plant and soil data-gathering techniques, AEA’s science-based programs empower farm operations to meet the crop quality markers that matter the most.
AEA has created real and lasting change on millions of acres with its products and data-driven services by working hand-in-hand with growers to produce healthier soil, stronger crops, and higher profits. Beyond working on the ground with growers, AEA leads in regenerative agriculture media and education, producing and distributing the popular and highly-regarded Regenerative Agriculture Podcast, inspiring webinars, and other educational content that serve as go-to resources for growers worldwide.
Visit https://advancingecoag.com to learn more.
Podcast Transcript
0:00 – 0:02
We have lots of questions that have come
0:02 – 0:04
in in advance from our newsletter
0:04 – 0:06
subscribers. So it's unlikely that I'll
0:06 – 0:08
get to very many live ones.
0:08 – 0:10
Unfortunately, I suppose I need to do
0:10 – 0:13
these more often. But also, please do
0:13 – 0:15
subscribe. If you want to submit questions
0:15 – 0:17
for these, please do subscribe to our
0:17 – 0:19
newsletter, and that'll give you the
0:19 – 0:21
chance to submit questions in advance.
0:21 – 0:24
And if you have questions that we don't
0:24 – 0:26
get to, Field Lark is constantly
0:26 – 0:27
improving, constantly getting better.
0:27 – 0:30
Feel free to, and there's a free version
0:30 – 0:32
of Field Lark. Feel free to sign up for
0:32 – 0:35
Field Lark. And ask any questions that you
0:35 – 0:38
have there because we continue to get
0:38 – 0:40
feedback from growers about how impressed
0:40 – 0:42
they are with the results that they're
0:42 – 0:45
getting and the things that they're able
0:45 – 0:47
to learn about their specific agronomic
0:47 – 0:49
questions. So definitely recommend you
0:49 – 0:51
connecting to that if you have questions
0:51 – 0:55
that we're not able to get to here in this
0:55 – 0:57
conversation. So with that, I'm going to
0:57 – 1:00
jump to the questions that were submitted.
1:00 – 1:02
First question here is from Alex.
1:02 – 1:05
I will be establishing a small scale
1:05 – 1:07
commercial elderberry planting in the next
1:07 – 1:09
year. Does AEA have any experience with
1:09 – 1:11
nutrition management and or sap testing
1:11 – 1:13
for elderberry specifically?
1:13 – 1:15
Yes, we do on a limited basis.
1:15 – 1:18
Obviously, there's not a lot of elderberry
1:18 – 1:19
production out there.
1:19 – 1:22
And I don't think we have a large enough
1:22 – 1:24
volume of samples yet that we've set
1:24 – 1:26
desired values for where sap analysis
1:26 – 1:30
targets should be, but we do have a good
1:30 – 1:32
index of comparison crops that we can
1:32 – 1:35
index against. And then a followup comment
1:35 – 1:38
here, based on my research, the main pests
1:38 – 1:39
for elderberry are spottedwinged
1:39 – 1:40
drosophila and mites.
1:40 – 1:43
If you don't have any specific experience
1:43 – 1:45
with elderberry, what would be a good
1:45 – 1:47
holistic management strategy for those
1:47 – 1:49
pests based on other berry crops?
1:49 – 1:52
So this is a great question, Alex, and we
1:52 – 1:55
do actually have a lot of experience with
1:55 – 1:57
various berry crops, blackberries and
1:57 – 1:59
blueberries and raspberries and so forth
1:59 – 2:01
on SWD, Spinal Wing Drosophila,
2:01 – 2:03
resistance. We've been quite successful at
2:03 – 2:05
managing nutrition to achieve resistance
2:05 – 2:07
to that insect in the fruit.
2:07 – 2:09
And even to my surprise and amazement,
2:09 – 2:12
sometimes within the first year or so, I
2:12 – 2:14
would suggest definitely connect with our
2:14 – 2:17
team at AEA and they'll be able to put
2:17 – 2:20
together an integrated approach for you on
2:20 – 2:22
that. That includes microbiome management
2:22 – 2:24
and nutrition management and to the degree
2:24 – 2:26
that it's relevant and appropriate,
2:26 – 2:28
ecosystem management as well, depending on
2:28 – 2:31
your context and what it is that you're
2:31 – 2:32
doing. Next question here is.
2:32 – 2:35
Context and what are you doing?
2:35 – 2:37
Next question here is from Larry.
2:37 – 2:40
I manage a small pecan orchard in Missouri
2:40 – 2:42
that has grafted improved trees about 25
2:42 – 2:43
years old.
2:43 – 2:46
Most trees suffer from moderate to severe
2:46 – 2:48
pecan scab and severe pecan weevil
2:48 – 2:52
infestation. I'm into my third year of no
2:52 – 2:54
synthetic inputs and my version of
2:54 – 2:55
adaptive cattle grazing.
2:55 – 2:58
I feel that I see market improvement in
2:58 – 3:01
general tree and ground cover health with
3:01 – 3:03
the exception of scab and weevil.
3:03 – 3:06
I applied pinion and Photomag in June at
3:06 – 3:09
recommended rates and am optimistic about
3:09 – 3:11
future response. In your opinion, is my
3:11 – 3:14
optimism warranted and do you have any
3:14 – 3:16
other recommendations without more
3:16 – 3:19
information? So on Scab and Weevil, yes, I
3:19 – 3:21
do have additional recommendations and
3:21 – 3:24
this is of course kind of just, this is
3:24 – 3:26
a general recommendation because we don't
3:26 – 3:29
have any other agronomic information about
3:29 – 3:32
what mineral the profiles are or what else
3:32 – 3:33
might be going on.
3:33 – 3:37
My expectation on both the scab and the
3:37 – 3:40
weevil is that you need to do more to
3:40 – 3:41
address trace minerals.
3:41 – 3:43
There's almost a certainty that zinc,
3:43 – 3:45
manganese, copper, cobalt, boron, et
3:45 – 3:48
cetera, you address those and get those
3:48 – 3:51
into balance. Then I would expect to see a
3:51 – 3:54
lot less pressure from scab and the
3:54 – 3:56
weevil. Those are the strong indications
3:56 – 3:59
there. If that's the Challenge, those are
3:59 – 4:01
the pests you're still having challenges
4:01 – 4:04
with. That's where I would start focusing.
4:04 – 4:07
And of course, to fine tune those, you
4:07 – 4:10
need some tests and some data to know
4:10 – 4:12
exactly where you're going.
4:12 – 4:15
Next question here is from Dexter Rice.
4:15 – 4:18
On the recent podcast episode with Jim
4:18 – 4:20
Dunlop, in regards to sap analysis
4:20 – 4:22
interpretation, Jim said his approach has
4:22 – 4:25
shifted over time from focusing on levels
4:25 – 4:28
of minerals to focusing on the top three
4:28 – 4:31
items in the test, which indicate the
4:31 – 4:33
metabolic status of the plant.
4:33 – 4:36
I understand that total sugars are a good
4:36 – 4:38
indicator. Of how efficiently the plants
4:38 – 4:40
are photosynthesizing, but could you
4:40 – 4:42
please explain more from your perspective
4:42 – 4:45
on what we may elucidate from this
4:45 – 4:48
metabolic viewpoint and then how that
4:48 – 4:49
information is actionable for our
4:49 – 4:51
management decision making?
4:51 – 4:53
Dexter, I'm trying to keep my answers
4:53 – 4:56
concise here, and you're pushing the
4:56 – 4:58
boundaries of keeping answers concise.
4:58 – 5:01
So the short version is that having sugars
5:01 – 5:04
either too high or too low on a sap
5:04 – 5:05
analysis is detrimental.
5:05 – 5:09
If they're too low, the plant Is consuming
5:09 – 5:11
them faster than it's generating them,
5:11 – 5:13
perhaps because of high ammonium or
5:13 – 5:14
nitrate levels.
5:15 – 5:19
If they're too high, the plant is not
5:19 – 5:21
metabolizing sugars correctly and
5:21 – 5:23
converting them into more complex
5:23 – 5:26
carbohydrates and proteins because of some
5:26 – 5:29
other stress factor, mineral deficiencies,
5:29 – 5:30
mineral excesses, drought stress,
5:30 – 5:34
whatever, there's a variety of things that
5:34 – 5:35
could be happening.
5:35 – 5:39
So I suppose, and that's then there's also
5:39 – 5:42
the EC and the pH numbers.
5:42 – 5:45
And perhaps the pathway to understand
5:45 – 5:48
those most thoroughly, and this is an
5:48 – 5:51
answer that is essentially what you're
5:51 – 5:54
asking about is trying to understand plant
5:54 – 5:57
metabolism. So, this is a big topic,
5:57 – 6:01
obviously. But I would suggest one of the
6:01 – 6:04
most valuable entry points, it's not an
6:04 – 6:08
easy entry point, but the most valuable
6:08 – 6:10
entry point is researching and studying
6:10 – 6:14
Olivier Husson's work on plant pH and EH
6:14 – 6:18
homeostasis. There is a six hour long free
6:18 – 6:20
course on kind Harvest.
6:20 – 6:23
You can read his published literature.
6:23 – 6:26
I interviewed him on the podcast.
6:26 – 6:29
He is French, there's a French accent,
6:29 – 6:32
there's things to work through, but.
6:32 – 6:34
The information, like once you really
6:34 – 6:37
understand what's happening with plant
6:37 – 6:41
metabolism from a pH and EH and sugar
6:41 – 6:42
metabolism perspective, hydrogen
6:42 – 6:44
metabolism perspective, all of those
6:44 – 6:48
things integrate and tie in with each
6:48 – 6:51
other. It gives you such a different
6:51 – 6:54
perspective on how to approach the plant's
6:54 – 6:56
internal landscape, its internal
6:56 – 6:59
environment for optimal health and
6:59 – 7:01
productivity. So, that's the place that I
7:01 – 7:05
would begin. It is a bit complex, and then
7:05 – 7:07
also. If you remember something that Jim
7:07 – 7:10
Dunlop Pointed out, is the use of AI.
7:10 – 7:12
So you can certainly use FieldLark for
7:12 – 7:15
this. You can also use other AI engines.
7:15 – 7:17
But take Olivier Hussain's work, take his
7:17 – 7:19
research papers, which those are already
7:19 – 7:21
incorporated into FieldLark.
7:21 – 7:22
So FieldLark already has access.
7:22 – 7:25
And just ask it specific questions about
7:25 – 7:26
nutrient interactions and what's happening
7:26 – 7:29
with metabolism. And I think those can be
7:29 – 7:32
those tools can be a very rapid learning
7:32 – 7:34
tool. A followup question here from Blake.
7:34 – 7:37
The follow up question here from Blake
7:37 – 7:39
Coleman. I'm an almond farmer here in
7:39 – 7:40
Modesto, California.
7:40 – 7:42
My main concerns are dealing with diseases
7:42 – 7:45
such as blossom brown rot, jacket rot, and
7:45 – 7:48
green fruit rot during bloom time by not
7:48 – 7:50
using the typical fungicides in the
7:50 – 7:52
market. Also, insect wise, navel orange
7:52 – 7:55
worm, plant bug, and stink bug tend to be
7:55 – 7:58
our toughest pests that don't seem to care
7:58 – 8:00
about plant bricks levels, plant health,
8:00 – 8:03
as stated by you, others, and Dykstra.
8:03 – 8:07
And if you have time, I was curious
8:07 – 8:11
about your thoughts on how to tackle red
8:11 – 8:13
leaf blotch and alternaria in orchards.
8:13 – 8:16
Blake, you ask great questions.
8:16 – 8:19
You're also getting me to struggle with
8:19 – 8:20
concise answers here.
8:20 – 8:24
So, the short answer we did see to
8:24 – 8:27
your first concern dealing with these
8:27 – 8:29
various diseases during bloom time.
8:29 – 8:32
We did have trials running on using pinion
8:32 – 8:36
this spring on, I think, three different
8:36 – 8:38
substantial field scale trials that I'm
8:38 – 8:41
aware of. Those went quite well.
8:41 – 8:44
We got some very strong responses from
8:44 – 8:48
those. And I do expect that pinion is
8:48 – 8:52
going to be one of the known solutions
8:52 – 8:54
for those challenges during AMA bloom
8:54 – 8:55
going forward.
8:56 – 8:59
But also from kind of an underlying
8:59 – 9:01
metabolic perspective, Those, those
9:01 – 9:03
Metabolic perspective, those blossom
9:03 – 9:05
diseases or early reproductive phase
9:05 – 9:07
diseases show up as a reflection, again,
9:07 – 9:10
of a lack of trace minerals.
9:10 – 9:13
So the zinc, manganese, copper, boron axis
9:13 – 9:15
becomes very important there because those
9:15 – 9:18
reproductive parts of the plant have
9:18 – 9:19
substantially higher requirements for
9:19 – 9:23
those trace minerals than the leaves do or
9:23 – 9:25
other parts of the plant.
9:25 – 9:28
Naval orange worm, plant bug, stink bug.
9:28 – 9:30
You know, it's interesting that.
9:30 – 9:32
You associate me with BRICS levels because
9:32 – 9:35
I certainly have seen a pattern of
9:35 – 9:38
correlation with BRICS levels, but I also
9:38 – 9:41
have major reservations about using BRICS
9:41 – 9:43
levels as a quality indicator.
9:43 – 9:46
I wrote a couple of blog posts on my
9:46 – 9:49
blog, which you can find at johnkempfcom
9:49 – 9:52
that's now three or four, well, it's
9:52 – 9:55
longer than that, half a dozen more years
9:55 – 9:58
ago, on the challenges with using BRICS
9:58 – 10:01
readings. And the challenge is that you're
10:01 – 10:04
going to be able to do that.
10:04 – 10:06
They can be very confounding.
10:06 – 10:09
They can be artificially inflated or
10:09 – 10:11
deflated based on a whole variety of
10:11 – 10:13
different factors that make their
10:13 – 10:16
reliability. You have to be a highvolume
10:16 – 10:20
tester, and you have to have a lot of
10:20 – 10:23
consistency, and you have to have a
10:23 – 10:25
perspective on what's happening and what's
10:25 – 10:28
going on that influences BRICS readings.
10:28 – 10:32
Before you can really use Them as an
10:32 – 10:34
indicator of what is happening.
10:34 – 10:38
So the general hypothesis of BRICS as an
10:38 – 10:41
indicator of insect resistance is somewhat
10:41 – 10:45
accurate, but with a long list of caveats.
10:45 – 10:48
And I pointed out many of those caveats
10:48 – 10:52
in those blog posts, but I think people
10:52 – 10:55
are generally not aware that bricks
10:55 – 10:59
reading are using bricks readings is a bit
10:59 – 11:02
of a minor minefield, from my perspective.
11:02 – 11:06
Um, so to your answer of how to
11:06 – 11:08
solve those problems specifically, maple
11:08 – 11:12
orange worm is is not that difficult once
11:12 – 11:14
you start addressing some nutritional
11:14 – 11:17
imbalances and particularly boron, and the
11:17 – 11:19
stink bug as well.
11:19 – 11:23
I'd be interested in going into a bit more
11:23 – 11:25
detail, knowing exactly what your sap
11:25 – 11:28
analysis and. Soil profile looks like, but
11:28 – 11:31
I would my first approach would be to
11:31 – 11:33
elevate calcium and boron levels,
11:33 – 11:36
particularly boron, to the degree that
11:36 – 11:37
calcium can support it.
11:37 – 11:41
And I would expect to see those be rapidly
11:41 – 11:44
depleted and also would expect your BRICS
11:44 – 11:47
levels to change, perhaps to drop as you
11:47 – 11:49
increase boron, simply because boron
11:49 – 11:51
facilitates sugar transportation and moves
11:51 – 11:53
it around a lot better.
11:53 – 11:56
It's a question here from Daryl Kern
11:56 – 11:59
during the transition of a coastal Bermuda
11:59 – 12:01
hay meadow from synthetic nitrogen to
12:01 – 12:03
biologically supplied nitrogen, can the
12:03 – 12:06
foliar application be made during a dry
12:06 – 12:09
spell? Or should they be delayed until
12:09 – 12:10
rain is anticipated?
12:10 – 12:13
What is the maximum concentration of
12:13 – 12:15
nitrogen that should be applied?
12:15 – 12:18
Daryl, this is a question that's tough to
12:18 – 12:20
answer without a bit more detail.
12:20 – 12:24
And the detail that I need in particular
12:24 – 12:26
is what exactly are you applying?
12:26 – 12:28
So you're saying biologically supplied
12:28 – 12:31
nitrogen, but then you're talking about
12:31 – 12:33
the maximum concentration of nitrogen that
12:33 – 12:36
could be applied. So I'm going to assume,
12:36 – 12:38
because this is something.
12:38 – 12:41
Topic I've been speaking quite a bit
12:41 – 12:44
about. I'm going to assume you're asking
12:44 – 12:46
about foliar applications of urea or
12:46 – 12:48
possibly other forms of nitrogen.
12:48 – 12:51
There's a podcast episode that's going to
12:51 – 12:55
air next week where I had an awesome
12:55 – 12:57
conversation with Patrick Fabian from
12:57 – 13:00
Fabian Seed Farms, which you can look up
13:00 – 13:03
on social media, where they have now, what
13:03 – 13:07
is it, better part of a decade, over a
13:07 – 13:09
decade worth of experience with melting
13:09 – 13:12
urea and putting on Fully your
13:12 – 13:13
applications of solubilized urea.
13:13 – 13:17
And they are putting On five gallons per
13:17 – 13:20
acre of an 1800 liquid urea straight with
13:20 – 13:23
no water to dilute it in drone
13:23 – 13:26
applications on small grain crops and corn
13:26 – 13:29
crops, not on their own farm, but they're
13:29 – 13:32
working with other farmers who are doing
13:32 – 13:35
this. So urea plants are much less
13:35 – 13:38
sensitive to urea than they are to some
13:38 – 13:41
other forms of nitrogen, like liquid 28 or
13:41 – 13:43
32. That's a foliar.
13:44 – 13:46
And... Eight or thirty two as a foliar.
13:46 – 13:50
And so that is that's kind of the maximum
13:50 – 13:51
concentration. To answer your question
13:51 – 13:53
specifically, what's the maximum
13:53 – 13:55
concentration of nitrogen that could be
13:55 – 13:57
applied? There's there's both a
13:57 – 13:58
concentration component and a total
13:58 – 14:00
quality, a total quantity component.
14:00 – 14:03
So if you took that eighteen zero zero
14:03 – 14:06
instead of putting it on with a drone at
14:06 – 14:09
five gallons per acre and you put it on at
14:09 – 14:12
twenty gallons per acre, I think in most
14:12 – 14:15
crops you would have a burn problem
14:15 – 14:17
because urea is a very high electrolyte
14:17 – 14:19
content, very high EC solution.
14:19 – 14:21
So that's there's both of those
14:21 – 14:23
considerations that you have to keep in
14:23 – 14:26
mind. And actually, I'll just touch on
14:26 – 14:28
that point, expand on it a bit further.
14:28 – 14:31
The rule of thumb that Patrick Fabian has
14:31 – 14:34
been using and now has lots of experience
14:34 – 14:37
with is maxing out at 10 pounds per acre
14:37 – 14:39
of actual nitrogen per application.
14:39 – 14:41
I suspect on a number of crops,
14:41 – 14:44
particularly the grasses, if you put in
14:44 – 14:46
sugars and carbohydrates and carbon with
14:46 – 14:49
it, more complex carbons, and you used a
14:49 – 14:51
larger water volume, you could perhaps do
14:51 – 14:54
more than that and get away with it.
14:54 – 14:57
But that is the comfort threshold that
14:57 – 14:58
they have realized.
14:58 – 15:01
And the other thing to consider is that if
15:01 – 15:05
you put on 10 pounds of urea as a foliar,
15:05 – 15:08
that's of nitrogen as urea as a foliar,
15:08 – 15:10
that's the equivalent of 40 pounds of
15:10 – 15:13
nitrogen applied to the soil in terms of
15:13 – 15:16
plant response. So that's a substantial,
15:16 – 15:17
substantial nitrogen application nitrogen
15:17 – 15:19
application. Question here from John
15:19 – 15:20
Warmerdam. Hi, John.
15:20 – 15:23
In your recent podcast with Jim Dunlop, he
15:23 – 15:25
shared he felt that calcium mobilization
15:25 – 15:28
was improved by the addition of sugars to
15:28 – 15:29
his foliar sprays.
15:29 – 15:32
My understanding is that calcium is best
15:32 – 15:35
picked up by growing root tips, and when
15:35 – 15:37
new root growth wanes as the season
15:37 – 15:39
progresses on tree crops, calcium uptake
15:39 – 15:41
is much more difficult.
15:42 – 15:44
Aside from his suggestion, which perhaps
15:44 – 15:47
may help fuel new root growth, what would
15:47 – 15:50
you recommend to help maximize calcium
15:50 – 15:52
uptake later in the season?
15:52 – 15:55
There's a few aspects here, John, which
15:55 – 15:57
I'm guessing you're probably familiar
15:57 – 16:00
with. But once we started shading the soil
16:00 – 16:03
and keeping soil covered and not having it
16:03 – 16:07
exposed to the sun, we did this experiment
16:07 – 16:10
with Greg Pennyroyal on wine grapes, and
16:10 – 16:12
calcium absorption almost tripled through
16:12 – 16:15
the course of the season simply by keeping
16:15 – 16:19
the soil shaded and keeping it out of the
16:19 – 16:21
sun, because that facilitated better
16:21 – 16:22
microbial populations.
16:22 – 16:24
I don't think it necessarily facilitated
16:24 – 16:27
there was an increased water application,
16:27 – 16:29
so maybe that facilitated new root growth
16:29 – 16:32
as well. That could have been a
16:32 – 16:34
contributing factor, but just simply
16:34 – 16:37
keeping the soil cool had a substantial
16:37 – 16:39
response in calcium uptake.
16:39 – 16:41
The other aspect is.
16:41 – 16:43
Boron applications, and I find, John,
16:43 – 16:46
you're dealing with stone fruit, and I'm
16:46 – 16:48
uncertain how these would respond compared
16:48 – 16:52
to some other plants, but because of their
16:52 – 16:53
sorbitol concentrations.
16:53 – 16:56
But I find that plants have a very
16:56 – 16:58
different response, or that calcium
16:58 – 17:01
absorption has a very different response
17:01 – 17:04
from boron that is applied as a foliar
17:04 – 17:07
versus boron that is applied to the soil.
17:07 – 17:10
Sometimes when we put boron applicants, or
17:10 – 17:14
let me just cut to the bottom line.
17:14 – 17:16
My general perception is that boron
17:16 – 17:18
applied as a foliar produces.
17:18 – 17:20
It produces greater calcium absorption
17:20 – 17:24
from the soil than boron applied to the
17:24 – 17:26
soil. It seems to trigger this
17:26 – 17:28
attractiveness within the plant where
17:28 – 17:30
there is more calcium absorption.
17:30 – 17:33
So those are partial questions, but John
17:33 – 17:36
I'd welcome a followup conversation with
17:36 – 17:38
you to dig into this.
17:38 – 17:41
It's a great question, great conversation.
17:41 – 17:43
There's a question here from Donovan
17:43 – 17:46
Kelly. Can John clarify what he and Jim
17:46 – 17:50
Dunlop But boy, Jim Dunlop has become a
17:50 – 17:52
very popular person very quickly.
17:52 – 17:55
It's awesome, Jim talked about in the
17:55 – 17:57
podcast episode about blending products
17:57 – 18:00
together? What products was biology added,
18:00 – 18:01
sugars and nutrients together?
18:01 – 18:04
Is it beneficial to blend different
18:04 – 18:05
nutrients together?
18:05 – 18:08
So the blends that are being put together,
18:08 – 18:10
and you're asking about bubbling, they
18:10 – 18:12
were not particularly bubbled.
18:12 – 18:15
They were just blended together and then
18:15 – 18:19
left in a tank for a period of time
18:19 – 18:20
before application.
18:22 – 18:24
The products are essentially AEA products
18:24 – 18:26
and so they're mostly nutritional
18:26 – 18:28
products. There are carbohydrates in
18:28 – 18:32
there. We have a whole bunch of stuff in
18:32 – 18:35
there that doesn't show up on the label
18:35 – 18:38
for a whole wide variety of regulatory
18:38 – 18:40
reasons and intellectual property reasons,
18:40 – 18:42
but there's there's humic substances of
18:42 – 18:44
various types. There's seaweeds of various
18:44 – 18:47
types. And there are sugars of various
18:47 – 18:50
types. So when you put together, you can
18:50 – 18:52
just imagine putting together a
18:52 – 18:55
combination of rebound trace minerals and
18:55 – 18:58
macro pack and micro pack and these
18:58 – 18:59
various combinations.
18:58 – 19:02
Sugar, there are, yeah, I did say there
19:02 – 19:04
are different types of sugars being added.
19:04 – 19:07
The interesting part about the AEA
19:07 – 19:09
products is I still remember this
19:09 – 19:13
conversation that I had at a lunch table
19:13 – 19:16
with Don Smith down in California half a
19:16 – 19:19
dozen years ago. I sat down across the
19:19 – 19:22
table from Don and Don leaned forward and
19:22 – 19:25
said, John, you know there's something
19:25 – 19:26
unique about your products.
19:26 – 19:30
They're alive. " He was looking at our
19:30 – 19:32
products under the microscope and
19:32 – 19:34
culturing different organisms in the
19:34 – 19:37
laboratory. And our products are very
19:37 – 19:39
specifically designed to not have a
19:39 – 19:42
detrimental effect to biology, not to
19:42 – 19:45
suppress biology. And so there are Not any
19:45 – 19:46
specifically added microbes.
19:46 – 19:49
There's no specific added inoculants in
19:49 – 19:51
any of our liquid formulations.
19:51 – 19:55
Now, obviously, we do have our dry powder
19:55 – 19:58
inoculants that we use as well, but none
19:58 – 20:02
of our, at present, we don't have any
20:02 – 20:04
liquid products that are microbial
20:04 – 20:06
inoculants. But they don't suppress
20:06 – 20:09
biology. So there is some just inherent
20:09 – 20:12
biology in them that arrives as a part
20:12 – 20:15
of the manufacturing process, some of the
20:15 – 20:18
ingredients. And Processes of some of the
20:18 – 20:22
ingredients. And so, what is happening in
20:22 – 20:25
this blend tank is not so much a
20:25 – 20:28
propagation of biology, I don't believe,
20:28 – 20:30
because these are still very concentrated,
20:30 – 20:33
very high EC solutions with very high
20:33 – 20:34
mineral concentrations.
20:34 – 20:37
So, it's not biological propagation so
20:37 – 20:41
much as I think it is a
20:41 – 20:44
blending and a synergistic effect that is
20:44 – 20:48
being created by these minerals being in
20:48 – 20:51
combination. But the reality is, we don't
20:51 – 20:54
fully know what is happening.
20:54 – 20:57
We've just come to the realization that
20:57 – 21:01
having products that are alive and giving
21:01 – 21:04
them time to blend together produces a
21:04 – 21:07
much greater response than just tank
21:07 – 21:10
mixing them and putting them on.
21:10 – 21:14
Question here from Katherine We have a
21:14 – 21:16
biodiverse, primarily apple orchard with
21:16 – 21:20
an on site cidery that we planted
21:20 – 21:23
2015 through 2018 no synthetic inputs, not
21:23 – 21:27
even fertilizer, trying to do the things
21:27 – 21:30
even as we aren't exactly sure what
21:30 – 21:33
we're doing. Like many orchards, we
21:33 – 21:36
struggle with apple borer and wondering
21:36 – 21:39
what insights you might have.
21:39 – 21:42
We tend to use manual methods, but
21:42 – 21:45
we like to encourage biology.
21:45 – 21:48
All right, so if the primary challenges
21:48 – 21:50
with the apple borer.
21:50 – 21:54
Then this is kind of a relatively
21:54 – 21:57
easy insect from a changing the plant's
21:57 – 22:00
metabolism perspective, but it's more
22:00 – 22:03
challenging because of the location on the
22:03 – 22:06
tree that it is in.
22:06 – 22:09
So, my recommendations would be for a
22:09 – 22:12
foliar application of photomag and
22:12 – 22:14
rejuvenate and boron, rebound boron.
22:14 – 22:18
And I actually have a clip that's going to
22:18 – 22:21
post here in the next day or so where I
22:21 – 22:24
talk about some of the things that I've
22:24 – 22:27
been playing around with here at home on
22:27 – 22:29
apple seedlings actually to solve these
22:29 – 22:30
types of insect challenges.
22:30 – 22:33
And that combination of photomag, which is
22:33 – 22:34
your protein synthesis nutrients, and
22:34 – 22:36
rejuvenate, which is a source of
22:36 – 22:38
carbohydrates, plus, and obviously, I'm
22:38 – 22:40
interested introducing these products very
22:40 – 22:42
simplistically. And that's one of the
22:42 – 22:44
things I was realizing in my previous
22:44 – 22:47
conversation or previous answer to the
22:47 – 22:49
previous comment we talk about these
22:49 – 22:51
products very simplistically as the, oh,
22:51 – 22:52
yeah, rejuvenate these carbohydrates.
22:52 – 22:55
Well, that's a bit like saying, that's a
22:55 – 22:58
bit, I don't know, I don't even have a
22:58 – 23:01
good analogy off the top of my head, but
23:01 – 23:04
it's a bit like saying that, oh, yeah,
23:04 – 23:05
forests are trees.
23:05 – 23:07
Forests are much more than trees, they're
23:07 – 23:10
shrubs and vines and understory plants and
23:10 – 23:11
birds and animals and.
23:11 – 23:13
Anonymous goes, and that's so.
23:13 – 23:15
On and on the list goes.
23:15 – 23:18
And that's so a lot of our products are
23:18 – 23:20
actually very sophisticated and very
23:20 – 23:23
complex. It just doesn't show up on the
23:23 – 23:25
label because of a whole variety of
23:25 – 23:27
regulatory and IP reasons.
23:27 – 23:29
So, anyway, I got sidetracked there from
23:29 – 23:31
the answer to your question.
23:31 – 23:33
So, Photomag, Rejuvenate, Rebound, Boron,
23:33 – 23:35
that combination, full your application,
23:35 – 23:38
will solve many, many insect pest
23:38 – 23:41
challenges. But you need, if you do only
23:41 – 23:45
one or a couple of those, May or may
23:45 – 23:48
not be effective. And also, if you try to
23:48 – 23:51
replicate those just by replicating the
23:51 – 23:54
mineral content of what shows up on the
23:54 – 23:57
label, you should expect your mileage to
23:57 – 23:59
vary quite substantially because there's a
23:59 – 24:02
lot more in there than just the mineral
24:02 – 24:05
content. A question from Sam My farm in
24:05 – 24:08
East Central Missouri is subjected to
24:08 – 24:10
yearly early season drift from highly
24:10 – 24:13
volatile 24 D and dicamba from nearby corn
24:13 – 24:15
and soybean operations.
24:15 – 24:17
My blocks of wine grapes are particularly
24:17 – 24:20
effective in a negative way, displaying
24:20 – 24:22
distorted growth expression and sometimes
24:22 – 24:25
poor fruit set. What would you recommend
24:25 – 24:27
to potentially counteract this and improve
24:27 – 24:30
vine health in light of this unfortunate
24:30 – 24:32
situation? Oh, Sam, I sympathize.
24:32 – 24:35
It's a difficult situation that you find
24:35 – 24:37
yourself in. And I know that
24:37 – 24:40
unfortunately, you don't get a lot of
24:40 – 24:43
sympathy from other farmers who are your
24:43 – 24:45
neighbors and who are contributing to the
24:45 – 24:48
problem which is unfortunate, at least
24:48 – 24:51
that's true in many parts of the country.
24:51 – 24:55
I shouldn't say that's true for you
24:55 – 24:57
specifically. But 24D is a challenge
24:57 – 25:00
because of its hormonal effect.
25:00 – 25:01
Dicamba is easier.
25:01 – 25:05
And many of the herbicides that function
25:05 – 25:07
as chelation agents are easier.
25:07 – 25:10
24D functions as a synthetic hormone which
25:10 – 25:14
is what makes it a little bit
25:14 – 25:17
more challenging. So we need to treat
25:17 – 25:20
herbicide drift and herbicide damage
25:20 – 25:23
similar to and recovery from that damage,
25:23 – 25:26
similar to hail recovery damage, in the
25:26 – 25:29
sense that timing is critical.
25:29 – 25:32
If you can build up nutrient levels
25:32 – 25:35
in advance, that's valuable, but putting
25:35 – 25:38
on a foliar application of nutrients
25:38 – 25:41
immediately after exposure, the sooner the
25:41 – 25:44
better, can help things turn around very
25:44 – 25:46
quickly, particularly for the chelation
25:46 – 25:50
agents, but also to some degree for
25:50 – 25:53
the 24 D. So, over the years,
25:53 – 25:57
growers have played around and tried many
25:57 – 25:59
different things with a surprising amount
25:59 – 26:02
of success. We've seen lots of success
26:02 – 26:04
from C STEM applications.
26:04 – 26:07
We've seen lots of success from a
26:07 – 26:10
combination of macro pack and micro pack.
26:10 – 26:14
And we've seen a lot of success from the
26:14 – 26:16
application of HoloCal and Rebound
26:16 – 26:18
minerals, which macroPAK and microPAK
26:18 – 26:19
essentially replicates.
26:19 – 26:21
So, the principle, the foundational
26:21 – 26:25
principle here is that in 24D this is less
26:25 – 26:28
true for 24D I'm going to focus on the
26:28 – 26:30
herbicides that function as chelators.
26:30 – 26:34
They land on the leaf, they penetrate the
26:34 – 26:36
leaf, they begin producing metabolic
26:36 – 26:38
reactions, You see some visual expression
26:38 – 26:42
of that usually within a day or two.
26:42 – 26:45
And at that Point, it's my understanding
26:45 – 26:48
that or let's just say that there is
26:48 – 26:51
that's just the beginning stages of the
26:51 – 26:54
metabolic impact. And when you look at I
26:54 – 26:57
happen to have the numbers for glyphosate
26:57 – 26:59
most highly in my head.
26:59 – 27:02
I haven't dug deeply into the chelation
27:02 – 27:05
constants for a lot of the other
27:05 – 27:09
herbicides, so I'm going to use I say it
27:09 – 27:12
as an example just because it's the one
27:12 – 27:14
that I'm most familiar with.
27:14 – 27:18
But if you look at the chelation constants
27:18 – 27:20
The chelation strength for which minerals
27:20 – 27:23
glyphosate is most strongly attracted to,
27:23 – 27:26
the top of the list is calcium.
27:26 – 27:29
Second on the list is magnesium.
27:29 – 27:32
Third on the list is cobalt.
27:32 – 27:35
And fourth on the list is manganese.
27:35 – 27:38
So what you want to think about is
27:38 – 27:41
how can you give the plant, the
27:41 – 27:44
application happens or the drift happens,
27:44 – 27:47
how can you give the plant high levels
27:47 – 27:50
of relatively free calcium, magnesium
27:50 – 27:52
cobalt, manganese, so that these
27:52 – 27:54
molecules, these herbicide molecules, can
27:54 – 27:57
attach to those minerals because once
27:57 – 27:59
they're attached, once they form the
27:59 – 28:01
chelation bond. They're functionally
28:01 – 28:04
inactivated and they no longer have a
28:04 – 28:06
detrimental impact on the plant.
28:06 – 28:09
So, timing of application is very
28:09 – 28:11
important. And that array of trace
28:11 – 28:13
minerals. And nutrients, calcium and
28:13 – 28:17
magnesium is very important for a lot of
28:17 – 28:18
the various herbicides.
28:18 – 28:21
And then, in the case of the hormonal
28:21 – 28:24
herbicides like 24 D in particular, and
28:24 – 28:27
those others that are in that similar
28:27 – 28:29
category, an application of CSTIM becomes
28:29 – 28:33
very valuable. So, it's kind of a longer
28:33 – 28:36
answer to how I would approach trying to
28:36 – 28:39
solve that. And unfortunately, yeah, I
28:39 – 28:40
can't speak with confidence.
28:40 – 28:43
Yeah, I I can't can't speak with
28:43 – 28:45
confidence to say that.
28:45 – 28:49
Oh, you do X Y Z, it will solve
28:49 – 28:50
your problem because obviously
28:50 – 28:53
concentration and drift exposure can vary
28:53 – 28:55
quite substantially, and depending on the
28:55 – 28:58
plant stage and where they're at, their
28:58 – 29:00
response can also vary substantially.
29:00 – 29:03
It's a question from John Brown.
29:03 – 29:06
I see some AEA products are made from
29:06 – 29:09
micronized minerals such as rock phosphate
29:09 – 29:11
in Accelerate or lime in Holocel.
29:11 – 29:13
Can plants uptake these micronized
29:13 – 29:16
minerals? As foliar sprays, I have foliar
29:16 – 29:18
sprayed similar products.
29:18 – 29:21
And subsequent sap and tissue tests showed
29:21 – 29:23
no measurable difference from the control.
29:23 – 29:25
Bingo! Great, great checkpoint, John.
29:25 – 29:29
Glad you're using sap analysis to
29:29 – 29:32
verify. That's, you know, one of
29:32 – 29:35
the questions that I've asked our
29:35 – 29:38
team is when, and one of
29:38 – 29:42
the things. I've talked about is
29:42 – 29:45
when is 5 greater than 15
29:45 – 29:48
when is 5 greater than 10
29:48 – 29:51
we so easily get caught in
29:51 – 29:55
the trap of looking at and
29:55 – 29:58
comparing mineral products based on their
29:58 – 30:01
nutrient concentrations and that is a
30:01 – 30:05
trap our 5 manganese will outperform
30:05 – 30:08
a 15 manganese or and over
30:08 – 30:11
again on sap analysis results and
30:11 – 30:13
on tissue test results.
30:13 – 30:17
But when you look at the
30:17 – 30:20
price per gallon or the price
30:20 – 30:23
per pound of active ingredient, it
30:23 – 30:26
looks like the 15 is a
30:26 – 30:28
lot less expensive.
30:28 – 30:31
Except when you look at the price that
30:31 – 30:33
you're paying for performance, it
30:33 – 30:35
immediately becomes very expensive.
30:35 – 30:37
So glad that you're checking because
30:37 – 30:38
that's the important part.
30:38 – 30:41
So, to the foundation of your Question,
30:41 – 30:43
can plants uptake these micronized
30:43 – 30:45
minerals as foliar spray?
30:45 – 30:46
To a limited degree.
30:46 – 30:48
It's quite limited in my understanding.
30:48 – 30:51
People want to talk about stomatal
30:51 – 30:53
absorption of these micronsized particles.
30:53 – 30:55
I think that's largely a fairy tale.
30:55 – 30:59
What I believe to be happening, and we
30:59 – 31:02
have the SAP analysis results to show that
31:02 – 31:04
Accelerate and Holocal do deliver a strong
31:04 – 31:07
calcium response. What I believe to be
31:07 – 31:10
happening is that a lot of those minerals
31:10 – 31:12
are actually metabolized on the leaf
31:12 – 31:15
surface by biology because often we are
31:15 – 31:17
adding or fully feeding them with
31:17 – 31:19
microbial inoculants of various types.
31:19 – 31:22
And again, HoloCal, like all of our
31:22 – 31:24
products, is designed to support and
31:24 – 31:27
enhance biology instead of to suppress it
31:27 – 31:29
and to be alive.
31:29 – 31:33
So I'm of the persuasion that a lot of
31:33 – 31:35
what is happening at these mycorrhizal
31:35 – 31:37
minerals are actually being metabolized by
31:37 – 31:40
microbes on the leaf surface and then
31:40 – 31:42
being contributed to the plant.
31:42 – 31:45
Now, the question mark that I have, and I
31:45 – 31:48
don't have an answer for this, is how can
31:48 – 31:51
that explain the speed of the results that
31:51 – 31:54
we see? Because many times we'll put on,
31:54 – 31:56
let's say, a holocal application.
31:56 – 31:59
It's been years since we looked at this,
31:59 – 32:02
but when we were first formulating this,
32:02 – 32:05
we can put on a holocal application and as
32:05 – 32:08
a foliar and see a crop response and sap,
32:08 – 32:12
and that also seen a matter of some of the
32:12 – 32:15
results that we were seeing were as little
32:15 – 32:17
as six hours. Can biology explain?
32:17 – 32:20
We're seeing where it's little as six
32:20 – 32:22
hours. Can biology exchange that rapidly?
32:22 – 32:23
Perhaps. There's certainly something
32:23 – 32:25
happening, whatever the mechanisms are.
32:25 – 32:28
And that's my one hypothesis, but it's not
32:28 – 32:31
been a priority to test that hypothesis
32:31 – 32:33
because, just from a very practical,
32:33 – 32:35
experiential perspective, we are getting
32:35 – 32:37
the results. And that's the piece that
32:37 – 32:40
counts. There's a question here from JP I
32:40 – 32:43
have a mixed fruit orchard in southeast
32:43 – 32:45
Florida that is becoming increasingly
32:45 – 32:47
infested with Sri Lankan weevils.
32:47 – 32:50
They're now feeding mainly on mango leaves
32:50 – 32:53
but also on avocados, jujube, and other
32:53 – 32:55
species. My current plan is spinosad for
32:55 – 32:58
adults on the canopy and nematodes for
32:58 – 33:00
larvae in the ground.
33:00 – 33:03
If this were your orchard, would you focus
33:03 – 33:06
on insect suppression or on changing the
33:06 – 33:09
plant and soil ecology that made the
33:09 – 33:10
infestation possible?
33:10 – 33:13
Yes, both. Do I have to choose?
33:13 – 33:16
I choose both. If you have significant
33:16 – 33:19
pest pressure, then obviously you have to
33:19 – 33:22
take care of it in the short term.
33:22 – 33:25
And then also change the plant's internal
33:25 – 33:29
terrain. So if you have larvae in the soil
33:29 – 33:33
and you have adults on the leaves, I made
33:33 – 33:35
the recommendation earlier for Photomag
00:33:35,084 --> 00:33:37,1000 and Rejuvenate and Rebound Boron, I would
00:33:37,1000 --> 00:33:40,498 do the exact same thing here.
33:40 – 33:41
Question from Rico.
33:41 – 33:43
You often talk about getting
33:43 – 33:45
disproportionate responses in growth and
33:45 – 33:48
yield with a well designed foliar feed,
33:48 – 33:51
which I have seen firsthand as well.
33:51 – 33:55
Can you speak to how to generate a similar
33:55 – 33:58
effect when talking about soils, either in
33:58 – 34:01
furrow when seeding broadacre crops or in
34:01 – 34:02
an orchard setting?
34:02 – 34:05
After you have balanced your soil
34:05 – 34:07
nutrition, what factors really get the
34:07 – 34:09
maximum growthslash immune response?
34:09 – 34:11
Gets the maximum growth slash immune
34:11 – 34:13
response through the rhizosphere.
34:13 – 34:16
Ah, Rico, that's an awesome question.
34:16 – 34:20
You're making me think a lot with
34:20 – 34:23
this. How do you generate a similar
34:23 – 34:25
disproportionate response in soil?
34:25 – 34:29
Conceptually, I would say that the answer
34:29 – 34:33
is treating plant roots and microbes in
34:33 – 34:35
the soil, the rhizosphere.
00:34:35,343 --> 00:34:38,1000 The same as we do plant leaves.
00:34:38,1000 --> 00:34:42,657 If we were able to, if we
34:42 – 34:46
had the capacity, and there are operations
34:46 – 34:49
that do, we had the capacity to
34:49 – 34:53
fertigate with the same or greater
34:53 – 34:56
frequency as we did our foliar
34:56 – 34:58
applications. And we essentially thought
34:58 – 35:02
of a fertigation as foliar feeding our
35:02 – 35:05
roots and stimulating our biology.
35:05 – 35:08
That is where you get the disproportionate
35:08 – 35:11
responses. It is a combination of
35:11 – 35:14
stimulating root growth, continued root
35:14 – 35:16
growth, and continued biological
35:16 – 35:19
development all season long to deliver
35:19 – 35:20
continued nutrition.
35:20 – 35:23
That's kind of the macro conceptual
35:23 – 35:27
approach or perspective that I would take.
35:27 – 35:30
Obviously, there's underneath that large
35:30 – 35:32
umbrella, there's lots of individual
35:32 – 35:36
things that you can do microbial inoculant
35:36 – 35:37
seed treatments.
35:38 – 35:40
Putting on specific nutrition in close
35:40 – 35:43
proximity to the seed to stimulate
35:43 – 35:45
biology, all of those pieces contribute,
35:45 – 35:48
but that's the framework within which I
35:48 – 35:50
would approach and within which I would
35:50 – 35:53
suggest that we see those types of
35:53 – 35:54
disproportionate responses.
35:54 – 35:57
Question from Steve, if we are applying 20
35:57 – 36:00
to 30 pounds of foliar melted urea before
36:00 – 36:04
R1 to corn on sandy soils with a low
36:04 – 36:06
potassium, Is there harm to applying some
36:06 – 36:09
Foliar potassium acetate at the same time
36:09 – 36:12
or is it recommended in a separate pass?
36:12 – 36:14
Steve, hesitant to answer that question
36:14 – 36:17
right off the top of my head.
36:17 – 36:20
It depends on your water quality, depends
36:20 – 36:22
on your water volume, your application
36:22 – 36:24
volume. My concern would be with
36:24 – 36:26
electrical conductivity of your total
36:26 – 36:28
solution and the total pounds of
36:28 – 36:30
electrolytes that you're applying to the
36:30 – 36:33
plant because potassium acetate also has a
36:33 – 36:37
very high EC. So it has a very high EC.
36:37 – 36:39
So it's going to be context dependent.
36:39 – 36:42
I don't have enough information to be able
36:42 – 36:44
to answer your question well.
36:44 – 36:46
But I would suggest testing it.
36:46 – 36:49
If you produce a burn with that
36:49 – 36:52
combination, you're going to see it in a
36:52 – 36:55
day or two. So test it with an application
36:55 – 36:59
on a small strip before you do a larger
36:59 – 37:01
application. I think it's possible,
37:01 – 37:04
particularly if you do more water volume.
37:04 – 37:07
And if I'm understanding correctly You're
37:07 – 37:11
doing 20 to 30 pounds of full year
37:11 – 37:14
melted urea, not you're also, yeah, you're
37:14 – 37:17
pushing the upper boundaries of urea
37:17 – 37:18
applications as well.
37:18 – 37:22
So, yeah, you're going to have to test
37:22 – 37:26
it. I don't know the answer to your
37:26 – 37:29
question. Question from Andrew In a fully
37:29 – 37:33
pastured dairy, how can we manage a mixed
37:33 – 37:35
species sward of predominantly ryegrass
37:35 – 37:38
and clover with plantain, timothy, and
37:38 – 37:40
cocksfoot orchard grasses to?
37:40 – 37:42
Increased lipid levels to help reduce
37:42 – 37:44
enteric methane emissions.
37:44 – 37:47
As well as fully deliver the cow's
37:47 – 37:48
nutritional needs.
37:48 – 37:52
Well, there's a number of things we could
37:52 – 37:56
talk about here. I seem to recall a
37:56 – 37:58
conversation, a research paper rather,
37:58 – 38:01
somewhere about the use of feeding seaweed
38:01 – 38:04
and specific forms of kelp to reduce
38:04 – 38:05
methane emissions.
38:05 – 38:09
I'm going to Leave the methane emissions
38:09 – 38:11
alone for just a moment.
38:11 – 38:15
I'm going to focus on the first part
38:15 – 38:18
of your question, which is how do we
38:18 – 38:20
increase lipid levels?
38:20 – 38:24
How do we manage a mixed species horde
38:24 – 38:25
to increase lipid levels?
38:25 – 38:28
There is a mineral nutrition component,
38:28 – 38:32
there is a microbiome component, and there
38:32 – 38:34
is a grazing management component.
38:34 – 38:37
That, of course, all these three things
38:37 – 38:39
are intertwined with each other.
38:39 – 38:43
So, on the mineral side You need, in
38:43 – 38:46
order to achieve high lipid levels as a
38:46 – 38:48
foundation, there's obviously other
38:48 – 38:51
nutrients. Zinc is important, copper is
38:51 – 38:53
important. These other elements are very
38:53 – 38:55
important for livestock health.
38:55 – 38:57
But the specific nutrients that are
38:57 – 39:00
essential to have adequate or generous
39:00 – 39:04
levels of in order to achieve high lipid
39:04 – 39:06
levels are calcium, sulfur, boron.
39:06 – 39:07
Sulfur, in particular.
39:07 – 39:11
If you're in a maritime environment with a
39:11 – 39:14
lot of rainfall You need our rule of
39:14 – 39:18
thumb 10 pounds of sulfur per acre, or
39:18 – 39:21
maybe I can say this more simply even
39:21 – 39:25
one pound of sulfur per acre per inch
39:25 – 39:26
of annual rainfall.
39:26 – 39:30
So if you're in a 40 inch annual rainfall
39:30 – 39:32
environment, that's 40 pounds of sulfur
39:32 – 39:33
application per year.
39:33 – 39:36
That is just a replacement for what is
39:36 – 39:39
going to be leached out in most
39:39 – 39:41
environments. Sulfur is foundational for
39:41 – 39:44
building lipids. Without that, it's not
39:44 – 39:46
going to happen. The calcium and boron
39:46 – 39:49
component, as well, boron, a minimum of
39:49 – 39:52
three parts per million in the soil is
39:52 – 39:54
what it's going to take.
39:54 – 39:56
The microbiome component, you're managing
39:56 – 39:59
a mixed species sword, should have
39:59 – 40:02
generous biology. I'm not going to go into
40:02 – 40:05
a whole lot of detail there.
40:05 – 40:08
But then you do have the inclusion of
40:08 – 40:11
plantain and I see plantain actually is
40:11 – 40:13
the only forb that you have listed.
40:13 – 40:16
You need more forbs because forbs will
40:16 – 40:19
build more lipids in their root system.
40:19 – 40:22
They will transfer more lipids to the
40:22 – 40:24
soil. They'll transfer more lipids
40:24 – 40:27
indirectly to the grasses that are growing
40:27 – 40:29
around them. So you need a higher
40:29 – 40:30
proportion of forbs.
40:30 – 40:33
And one of the ways to achieve that, I
40:33 – 40:36
wrote about this in a couple of articles.
40:36 – 40:38
I'm not sure they were published in
40:38 – 40:41
Stockton, and grass farmer I think they're
40:41 – 40:43
floating around in different places.
40:43 – 40:46
But One of the things that you need is to
40:46 – 40:48
stimulate more forbid development and to
40:48 – 40:50
stimulate the microbiome that facilitates
40:50 – 40:52
lipids is occasionally, not suggesting
40:52 – 40:54
this is a regular frequent occurrence, but
40:54 – 40:56
once every couple of years, five years,
40:56 – 40:58
three years, whatever is appropriate in
40:58 – 41:00
your context, occasionally you need to
41:00 – 41:02
graze the grass to the dirt.
41:02 – 41:05
You need to stress the grasses.
41:05 – 41:08
And this can maybe that means set stock
41:08 – 41:11
grazing for a week or two weeks you need
41:11 – 41:14
to deplete sugar reserves of the grasses
41:14 – 41:16
enough to stimulate forb growth.
41:16 – 41:18
In other words, to stimulate a weedy
41:18 – 41:22
field. The next week, or excuse me, the
41:22 – 41:24
following year, you'll have a lot more
41:24 – 41:27
forbs. It will look a lot weedier.
41:27 – 41:30
It appears as if, though, your pounds of
41:30 – 41:32
biomass production per acre is less.
41:32 – 41:36
But in many cases, the actual meat or milk
41:36 – 41:38
production per acre is the same because
41:38 – 41:41
the forbs have a higher mineral content, a
41:41 – 41:44
higher energy density, and they convert
41:44 – 41:45
very, very efficiently.
41:45 – 41:47
And usually, two or three, second year,
41:47 – 41:50
third year, post that hard grazing, you
41:50 – 41:52
get substantially improved yields because
41:52 – 41:55
of the impact that those forbs have on the
41:55 – 41:58
soil microbiome and on the lipid content
41:58 – 42:00
of the rest of the soil.
42:00 – 42:04
So there's a lot of interactions here that
42:04 – 42:07
I'm kind of glossing over and giving you
42:07 – 42:10
a very high level perspective, but those
42:10 – 42:13
are the approaches that I would take.
42:13 – 42:15
It's a question from Greg.
42:15 – 42:18
How do we get significant drought stress
42:18 – 42:20
resistance into the trees most
42:20 – 42:22
efficiently? Greg, there's some
42:22 – 42:24
interesting things that we're researching,
42:24 – 42:27
and we actually have a product in
42:27 – 42:29
development that can generate a
42:29 – 42:32
substantial degree of stress resistance
42:32 – 42:35
that I hope to have on the market
42:35 – 42:38
in the coming six to 12 months.
42:38 – 42:41
But the One thing that you can do,
42:41 – 42:44
you ask the question most efficiently.
42:44 – 42:47
I've studied this more on annual crops
42:47 – 42:49
than I have on perennials.
42:49 – 42:53
And I don't know exactly how it transfers.
42:53 – 42:57
Is it also annual and seasonal, or is
42:57 – 43:00
it to some degree, it would be multi
43:00 – 43:04
seasonal? But on annual crops, the way we
43:04 – 43:06
produce drought stress resistance later in
43:06 – 43:10
life is we create drought stress early in
43:10 – 43:13
life. So there are, for many vegetable
43:13 – 43:17
crops or grain crops, even if they have
43:17 – 43:19
substantial drought stress at early
43:19 – 43:22
stages, it immunizes them against drought
43:22 – 43:24
stress later in life.
43:24 – 43:27
And some of that would be true for
43:27 – 43:31
trees as well. If you can, in an
43:31 – 43:33
ideal world, if you could induce
43:33 – 43:37
significant drought stress when they are a
43:37 – 43:40
seedling, that's going to activate a whole
43:40 – 43:43
bunch of different genetic code and gene
43:43 – 43:46
SNPs that will confer drought stress later
43:46 – 43:50
on in life. But I'm of the persuasion
43:50 – 43:53
that you can even do that within a
43:53 – 43:55
specific growing season.
43:55 – 43:56
So that's one component.
43:56 – 44:00
And then the other component, and I talk
44:00 – 44:04
about this a little bit, and I think
44:04 – 44:07
the one webinar is titled How Nitrogen
44:07 – 44:10
Creates a Yield Drag or something to that
44:10 – 44:14
effect. But one of the things that we've
44:14 – 44:18
become aware of is as you change your
44:18 – 44:21
nitrogen management and you change and you
44:21 – 44:23
manage photosynthesis, you manage for
44:23 – 44:25
photosynthesis, your water, the plant's
44:25 – 44:27
water requirements drop dramatically
44:27 – 44:31
because it doesn't need to use water to
44:31 – 44:34
convert nitrates and it doesn't need to
44:34 – 44:37
use water to create sugars to convert
44:37 – 44:38
nitrates.
44:38 – 44:42
And, um, The rule of thumb that I have,
44:42 – 44:44
this is just, this is experiential.
44:44 – 44:47
A. This is just experiential observation
44:47 – 44:50
on a broad scale. I don't have hard
44:50 – 44:51
numbers to quantify this.
44:51 – 44:54
It's just, yeah, it's a lot of experience
44:54 – 44:57
and observation. But it seems when we
44:57 – 45:00
start managing nitrogen differently and we
45:00 – 45:01
optimize for photosynthesis, the
45:01 – 45:04
combination of those two things results in
45:04 – 45:07
a reduced water need for many crops in the
45:07 – 45:10
neighborhood of 30 to 50 percent.
45:10 – 45:11
It's a big number.
45:11 – 45:13
It's a really big number.
45:13 – 45:16
When you think about what that means, that
45:16 – 45:19
means you've just created a lot of
45:19 – 45:21
additional drought stress resilience
45:21 – 45:23
because the water demand isn't nearly as
45:23 – 45:25
significant because of imbalanced
45:25 – 45:27
attrition. A question here from Thomas
45:27 – 45:29
Picard of the Star Trek Enterprise.
45:29 – 45:32
No, it doesn't say that last part.
45:32 – 45:35
I just had to include it.
45:35 – 45:37
Phil's probably laughing at me in the
45:37 – 45:40
background. In recent content, you have
45:40 – 45:42
been insisting on preventing heat stress
45:42 – 45:44
essentially through foliars and notably
45:44 – 45:47
using sugars, which seems to be the first
45:47 – 45:49
limiting factor. Could you explain?
45:49 – 45:53
A bit on the nature of that sugar to
45:53 – 45:55
be compatible with the plant physiology?
45:55 – 45:58
And why not molasses, as suggested in the
45:58 – 46:00
last podcast with Jim Dunlop?
46:00 – 46:02
And then it's usual dilution.
46:02 – 46:05
So we've experimented with a lot of
46:05 – 46:08
various sugars and the AEA team has, in
46:08 – 46:11
particular Jim and Kevin and the team that
46:11 – 46:14
they work with there in the PNW.
46:14 – 46:17
But we've also, I mean, years ago, the
46:17 – 46:21
reality is This is kind of in some ways
46:21 – 46:23
coming full circle because the original
46:23 – 46:25
early formulations of Photomag included
46:25 – 46:28
dextrose and it got pulled out for reasons
46:28 – 46:30
of organic certification compliance.
46:30 – 46:33
So there are a variety of different sugars
46:33 – 46:35
which are useful, they have different
46:35 – 46:37
metabolic impacts on the plant.
46:37 – 46:40
Molasses can be very useful and valuable.
46:40 – 46:43
The tree crops and the berries that Jim
46:43 – 46:46
was referring to and that he works a lot
46:46 – 46:50
with, and he also works a lot with other
46:50 – 46:54
crops as well, but the crops that we were
46:54 – 46:56
discussing right in that conversation,
46:56 – 46:58
molasses is often less preferable, not
46:58 – 47:01
because of a lack of effectiveness or
47:01 – 47:03
anything like that, but because of its
47:03 – 47:05
capacity to stain fruit.
47:05 – 47:08
So you get these dark stains on cherries
47:08 – 47:10
or blueberries or something like that, you
47:10 – 47:13
have a problem. So molasses is often not
47:13 – 47:15
included in those applications for that
47:15 – 47:17
reason. Question here from Dan.
47:17 – 47:19
In my experience, silicon, calcium, and
47:19 – 47:22
boron foliar has finally helped to get a
47:22 – 47:25
handle on stone fruit brown rot without
47:25 – 47:27
toxic fungicides after 50 years of effort.
47:27 – 47:30
How do I maximize boron attrition and
47:30 – 47:32
minimize toxicity in soil and foliar
47:32 – 47:33
applications to woody perennial plantings
47:33 – 47:34
for insect resistance?
47:34 – 47:37
It's very easy. You partner it with
47:37 – 47:40
calcium. Partner high dose of boron with a
47:40 – 47:43
high dose of calcium in the same spray
47:43 – 47:46
tank and you will be able to put on
47:46 – 47:48
substantially higher Doses of boron with
47:48 – 47:49
no toxicity.
47:49 – 47:52
I did this application just yesterday
47:52 – 47:56
where I put on a foliar application of a
47:56 – 47:59
high dose of calcium and boron on some
47:59 – 48:02
tree seedlings, fruit tree seedlings that
48:02 – 48:05
I had planted that still had high levels
48:05 – 48:08
of nitrogen residual from their year in
48:08 – 48:11
the nursery and we got intense Japanese
48:11 – 48:13
beetle pressure. Hundreds of Japanese
48:13 – 48:15
beetles put on that foliar application
48:15 – 48:19
combination of, I have a clip that's going
48:19 – 48:22
up where I talk about it, but combination
48:22 – 48:25
application of holocal and rebound boron
48:25 – 48:28
and photomag. And literally in 24 hours, I
48:28 – 48:32
went from hundreds of flea beetles to, in
48:32 – 48:34
my crop scouting this morning, finding
48:34 – 48:37
three. That was a lot of fun.
48:37 – 48:40
How do we use endophytic, epiphytic, and
48:40 – 48:42
rhizosphere biology to drive epigenetic
48:42 – 48:45
changes and to induce resistance immunity
48:45 – 48:48
to a fungal disease such as chestnut
48:48 – 48:49
blight without traditional genus
48:49 – 48:51
crossbreeding. Dan, you like asking
48:51 – 48:52
complicated questions.
48:52 – 48:55
Well, look at James White's work.
48:55 – 48:59
And what I'm not sure to what degree They
48:59 – 49:01
have talked about this publicly, James and
49:01 – 49:04
his colleagues have talked about this
49:04 – 49:07
publicly. I know I had this in personal
49:07 – 49:10
conversation with them, or perhaps it was
49:10 – 49:13
even at an event where they were
49:13 – 49:15
discussing some of their work.
49:15 – 49:18
But they have succeeded in transferring
49:18 – 49:21
microbes and endophytes from old corn
49:21 – 49:24
cultivars to modern corn cultivars that
49:24 – 49:26
have completely lost those endophytes
49:26 – 49:29
because of cell culture propagation and so
49:29 – 49:32
forth. And so they succeeded in
49:32 – 49:36
transferring that microbiome from A to B.
49:36 – 49:38
And another way of transferring a
49:38 – 49:41
microbiome of all these various organisms
49:41 – 49:44
is growing in really healthy soil.
49:44 – 49:48
So if you have soil that contains these
49:48 – 49:50
microbial populations and you propagate
49:50 – 49:53
your parent seed stock in that
49:53 – 49:56
environment, then that will propagate to
49:56 – 49:57
the next generation.
49:57 – 50:00
There's a number of different mechanisms
50:00 – 50:03
and without question, I'm working on a
50:03 – 50:06
project right now outlining a book to
50:06 – 50:08
write about our experiences.
50:08 – 50:11
And observations on managing nutrition for
50:11 – 50:13
insect resistance, because I'm recognizing
50:13 – 50:17
there is this large gap between what we
50:17 – 50:20
experience on some farms and what is
50:20 – 50:23
generally experienced by growers who try
50:23 – 50:27
to replicate our results on their own with
50:27 – 50:28
their own materials.
50:28 – 50:32
And the realization that when you look at
50:32 – 50:35
the historical genetics work that was
50:35 – 50:36
done, there's this.
50:36 – 50:39
I'm reading this fascinating book.
50:39 – 50:42
I forget the title right now, but it's
50:42 – 50:46
describing all of the research work that
50:46 – 50:49
was done during the 20s and 30s and
50:49 – 50:53
40s. That's the 1920s and 30s and
50:53 – 50:56
40s on producing insect resistant and pest
50:56 – 51:00
resistant crops. And then it goes into
51:00 – 51:03
the metabolic, the changes in metabolic
51:03 – 51:06
profiles. And it just reinforced my
51:06 – 51:09
perspective that many of the, when we
51:09 – 51:12
talk about breeding work and improving
51:12 – 51:15
genetics for disease resistance or
51:15 – 51:17
improving genetics for insect resistance,
51:17 – 51:20
we now have all these genetic markers
51:20 – 51:24
and gene SNPs turning genes on, turning
51:24 – 51:26
genes off, and so forth.
51:26 – 51:29
I'm not suggesting that that isn't
51:29 – 51:33
accurate, but I am suggesting, I am
51:33 – 51:36
of the opinion that those genetic
51:36 – 51:38
patterns. That those genetic pathways
51:38 – 51:41
being activated or deactivated translates
51:41 – 51:44
to changes in nutritional absorption and
51:44 – 51:45
nutrient absorption.
51:45 – 51:48
And that results in metabolic changes
51:48 – 51:51
which translate to disease resistance and
51:51 – 51:52
insect resistance.
51:52 – 51:54
I mean, when we have...
51:54 – 51:58
We know, for example, that all the
51:58 – 52:00
apple scab varieties have substantially
52:00 – 52:02
higher levels. They're just genetically
52:02 – 52:05
very good at absorbing cobalt.
52:05 – 52:08
They had substantially higher levels of
52:08 – 52:11
cobalt than the apple scab susceptible
52:11 – 52:14
varieties. And we've been able to draw
52:14 – 52:17
other correlations where varieties that
52:17 – 52:20
are very resistant or very susceptible to
52:20 – 52:23
particular disease have a very different
52:23 – 52:24
nutritional profile.
52:24 – 52:27
So, yes, there are genetic differences,
52:27 – 52:30
but those genetic differences translate to
52:30 – 52:31
nutrient absorption differences.
52:31 – 52:35
That same concept also applies to the
52:35 – 52:38
microbiome. We know that the microbiome
52:38 – 52:40
obviously has even greater genetic
52:40 – 52:43
diversity, and the microbiome activates
52:43 – 52:45
and deactivates different genetic
52:45 – 52:47
sequences within the plant's DNA.
52:47 – 52:50
And it also implies influences mineral
52:50 – 52:53
absorption. So those three, we need to
52:53 – 52:57
stop thinking about plant genetics as the
52:57 – 52:59
plant genome in isolation.
52:59 – 53:02
Instead, we have to also consider the
53:02 – 53:05
microbial microbiome that is associated
53:05 – 53:08
with the plant genetic material and that
53:08 – 53:12
activates it Or deactivates it, and the
53:12 – 53:14
mineral component, the mineral attrition
53:14 – 53:17
status that changes the metabolic profile
53:17 – 53:20
of the plant. Once we start integrating
53:20 – 53:24
those things, we will develop a much more
53:24 – 53:27
comprehensive and complete picture of what
53:27 – 53:29
truly drives resistance or susceptibility,
53:29 – 53:33
and that will accelerate our capacity to
53:33 – 53:34
develop truly diseaseresistant and
53:34 – 53:37
insectresistant crops much more rapidly
53:37 – 53:39
than CRISPR engineering or genetic
53:39 – 53:42
modification. There's a question here from
53:42 – 53:45
Jenna. Please explain more precisely how
53:45 – 53:47
sodium and chloride accumulation distorts
53:47 – 53:51
breaks. And if there are high levels of
53:51 – 53:54
sodium and chloride implants in leaf sap,
53:54 – 53:58
is there something which can be done to
53:58 – 54:00
reduce their levels?
54:00 – 54:02
It's a good question, Jenna.
54:02 – 54:05
I'll answer the second part of your
54:05 – 54:09
question first, and that is prevention is
54:09 – 54:12
an order of magnitude more easier than
54:12 – 54:15
cure. Once sodium and chloride Levels are
54:15 – 54:18
elevated in plant sap, then you need to
54:18 – 54:20
compensate for that with additional
54:20 – 54:23
nitrogen, with higher elevated nitrogen
54:23 – 54:25
levels, with elevated phosphorus levels.
54:25 – 54:28
So there are ways of compensating for it,
54:28 – 54:31
but it becomes a compensation and a
54:31 – 54:34
nutrient balance question at that point.
54:34 – 54:36
Because there's relatively, well, I was
54:36 – 54:39
about to say there's relatively little
54:39 – 54:42
that can be done about it, but there
54:42 – 54:44
are scenarios. This has.
54:44 – 54:47
This does not have 100 success rate
54:47 – 54:50
because it is microbial in nature and
54:50 – 54:52
there's variables in plant mineral status
54:52 – 54:55
and metabolic profiles that we don't fully
54:55 – 54:58
understand what all the variables are at
54:58 – 55:02
this point. But I do recall a number
55:02 – 55:05
of instances where we have fully applied
55:05 – 55:08
Spectrum PSB. Sorry, not Spectrum PSB.
55:08 – 55:11
I forget what the acronym is, but the
55:11 – 55:15
version of Spectrum that is known for
55:15 – 55:18
Spectrum digestion, and that has helped to
55:18 – 55:19
really drop sodium levels.
55:19 – 55:23
The other thing that can be done,
55:23 – 55:25
particularly if sodium and chloride are
55:25 – 55:28
coming in the irrigation system with
55:28 – 55:32
water, is putting on or including in the
55:32 – 55:33
irrigation system humicarb.
55:33 – 55:37
And those humic substances do quite a good
55:37 – 55:39
job of binding chloride, in particular,
55:39 – 55:41
reducing chloride absorption.
55:41 – 55:44
So now back to your first question, how
55:44 – 55:46
do sodium and chloride accumulation
55:46 – 55:49
distort BRICS? There's a number of
55:49 – 55:51
different both direct and indirect
55:51 – 55:55
mechanisms. One is that BRICS is not a
55:55 – 55:58
reflection of just sugar, is a reflection
55:58 – 56:00
of total dissolved solids.
56:00 – 56:03
And the presence of sodium and chloride as
56:03 – 56:06
electrolytes distorts the plants, restores
56:06 – 56:07
the plant's metabolism.
56:07 – 56:11
And you have in many situations you have
56:11 – 56:13
less sugar accumulation, but you still
56:13 – 56:17
have the presence of sodium and chloride.
56:17 – 56:20
So, for anyone who believes that bricks is
56:20 – 56:23
a measure of sugar alone, it's very
56:23 – 56:26
simple. Just take, develop a solution of
56:26 – 56:29
calcium chloride and measure the bricks
56:29 – 56:31
reading. It's not zero.
56:31 – 56:34
Other elements and other compounds refract
56:34 – 56:38
light as well, in addition to just sugars.
56:38 – 56:40
And have a refraction index.
56:40 – 56:44
I feel like I've not fully answered your
56:44 – 56:46
question on how their accumulation
56:46 – 56:49
distorts friction readings, but it will
56:49 – 56:52
have a substantial negative effect on
56:52 – 56:54
sugar accumulation within the plant.
56:54 – 56:57
Question here from Dimitrios If I were
56:57 – 57:01
going to the field, what instruments would
57:01 – 57:03
you have with you?
57:03 – 57:06
A refractometer, PHEC meter, PHEC meter.
57:06 – 57:09
A refractometer, pH EC meter, pH EH meter,
57:09 – 57:12
or is there a better answer?
57:12 – 57:16
There was a day when I had, when
57:16 – 57:20
I would go into the field with a
57:20 – 57:23
small toolbox carrying a sap squeezing
57:23 – 57:26
device, a garlic press, or even a
57:26 – 57:29
hydraulic press, and a refractometer and a
57:29 – 57:32
pH meter and an EC meter.
57:32 – 57:35
All the horiba. Carti twin meters.
57:35 – 57:39
And I don't do that anymore because the
57:39 – 57:42
refractometer, I spoke earlier in this
57:42 – 57:44
conversation about my challenges with the
57:44 – 57:48
refractometer. You can go to my blog and
57:48 – 57:52
look up or just do a search for
57:52 – 57:55
what I wrote on BRICS measurements.
57:55 – 57:59
I'm not a fan of, let me say
57:59 – 58:02
it this way I think BRICS readings can
58:02 – 58:05
be a useful qualitative tool.
58:05 – 58:08
They are not a useful management tool, in
58:08 – 58:12
my opinion, because they are too highly
58:12 – 58:15
variable. They have too much fluctuation.
58:15 – 58:16
They're too inconsistent.
58:16 – 58:20
And even if they do indicate that you
58:20 – 58:24
are in a negative or a positive space,
58:24 – 58:27
they give you no indication of what to
58:27 – 58:31
do as a result. So I'm a fan
58:31 – 58:35
of the concept which is not a fan
58:35 – 58:39
of the practice. And the pH and the
58:39 – 58:42
EC meter also require a fair amount of
58:42 – 58:45
interpretation. And the challenge is if
58:45 – 58:49
you have an alkaline or acidic pH, or
58:49 – 58:53
you have high or low EC, what do
58:53 – 58:55
you do about that exactly?
58:56 – 59:00
And I would take, I used to go into the
59:00 – 59:02
field and I would collect measurements at
59:02 – 59:05
different points in the plant the lowest
59:05 – 59:08
leaf, oldest leaf on the plant, the newest
59:08 – 59:10
leaf on the plant, intermediate leaves,
59:10 – 59:12
leaves right beside the fruit.
59:12 – 59:15
And I was able to develop some guidelines
59:15 – 59:17
for managing potassium and calcium and
59:17 – 59:20
sugar content based on the results that I
59:20 – 59:22
got, but they still left extremely large
59:22 – 59:25
gaps. So the short version is the moment
59:25 – 59:29
you can justify it, and that moment is a
59:29 – 59:31
lot earlier than many people realize, the
59:31 – 59:34
moment you can justify it economically,
59:34 – 59:36
you need to start using sap analysis
59:36 – 59:39
because the refract, you will learn more,
59:39 – 59:42
you will learn 10 times more from a single
59:42 – 59:45
SAP analysis than you will from a dozen
59:45 – 59:46
instrument readings.
59:46 – 59:48
So, we've, I think the technology, the
59:48 – 59:50
technology of laboratory analysis has
59:50 – 59:53
passed them by, and particularly what is
59:53 – 59:55
happening with the crop tick sensors and
59:55 – 59:57
being able to measure nutritional profiles
59:57 – 1:00:01
in the field. These other sensors have a
1:00:01 – 1:00:03
finite finite usefulness date, in my
1:00:03 – 1:00:05
opinion. Question from Matthew.
1:00:05 – 1:00:08
I've just chosen a small plot of land.
1:00:08 – 1:00:11
I am planning on using the fall soil
1:00:11 – 1:00:13
primer, deep tilled and injecting at 15
1:00:13 – 1:00:16
gallons per acre. Would I be better served
1:00:16 – 1:00:20
to plant a cover crop mix for warm season
1:00:20 – 1:00:23
from green cover or inject biology as soon
1:00:23 – 1:00:26
as possible to get the most time in the
1:00:26 – 1:00:28
ground? Soil is heavy clay.
1:00:28 – 1:00:31
Yes. Why choose? You don't have to choose
1:00:31 – 1:00:33
between one or the other.
1:00:33 – 1:00:37
I would do both. But I would definitely do
1:00:37 – 1:00:40
the cover crop. I mean, I would do both
1:00:40 – 1:00:42
of them. You need...
1:00:42 – 1:00:45
I would apply the cover crop and use
1:00:45 – 1:00:48
BioCoat Gold and Seed Flare as a seed
1:00:48 – 1:00:50
treatment and get the biology going
1:00:50 – 1:00:52
through the crop. You have to...
1:00:52 – 1:00:55
Just injecting the biology alone is not
1:00:55 – 1:00:58
enough because you have to feed it with
1:00:58 – 1:01:00
root exudates as well.
1:01:00 – 1:01:02
There's a followup question eat it with
1:01:02 – 1:01:04
root exudates as well.
1:01:04 – 1:01:07
You commonly say that if a fruiting crop
1:01:07 – 1:01:10
produces a flower, then it is genetically
1:01:10 – 1:01:13
capable of bringing that flower to a fully
1:01:13 – 1:01:14
formed and sized fruit.
1:01:14 – 1:01:18
In the case of tomatoes, it is common on
1:01:18 – 1:01:20
indeterminates to practice fruit pruning
1:01:20 – 1:01:23
down to three to four per cluster on
1:01:23 – 1:01:25
larger varieties to keep the fruit size
1:01:25 – 1:01:28
and quality. Is this principle applicable
1:01:28 – 1:01:30
to tomatoes when beefsteak tomatoes often
1:01:30 – 1:01:33
want to send out six to the An exception
1:01:33 – 1:01:36
to this rule. So there is a difference
1:01:36 – 1:01:39
between what the tomato plant wants and
1:01:39 – 1:01:42
what we want. The tomato plant doesn't
1:01:42 – 1:01:45
care about fruit size, it just cares about
1:01:45 – 1:01:45
successful reproduction.
1:01:45 – 1:01:47
We care about size.
1:01:47 – 1:01:50
So they're not an exception to the rule,
1:01:50 – 1:01:52
but we just have different expectations of
1:01:52 – 1:01:54
what success looks like.
1:01:54 – 1:01:57
Question here from Jay I'm beginning to
1:01:57 – 1:01:59
try some organic row crop farming in
1:01:59 – 1:02:02
northern Ohio. I'm trying a system where I
1:02:02 – 1:02:05
till a cover crop in the field, plant,
1:02:05 – 1:02:07
make a single blind cultivation pattern
1:02:07 – 1:02:11
such as a rotary hoe, and then allow the
1:02:11 – 1:02:13
weeds to grow as companion crops or
1:02:13 – 1:02:15
interseeded cover crops.
1:02:15 – 1:02:18
Then use in row mowing or in row
1:02:18 – 1:02:22
crimping to set the weeds back, keep the
1:02:22 – 1:02:23
cash crop competitive.
1:02:23 – 1:02:27
As long as I can effectively harvest and
1:02:27 – 1:02:30
clean the grain, are there other factors
1:02:30 – 1:02:34
that I should be concerned about from a
1:02:34 – 1:02:36
plant nutrition perspective or other
1:02:36 – 1:02:38
perspective? My thought is that.
1:02:38 – 1:02:42
The weeds that grow should be working to
1:02:42 – 1:02:45
fix problems that exist in my soil, and
1:02:45 – 1:02:49
this would be much cheaper and easier than
1:02:49 – 1:02:51
purchasing and interseeding cover crop
1:02:51 – 1:02:54
seeds. Hmm, Jay, that's a fascinating
1:02:54 – 1:02:58
idea. One of the things that we're coming
1:02:58 – 1:03:01
to understand is that in order for plants
1:03:01 – 1:03:05
to be non competitive, to be collaborative
1:03:05 – 1:03:08
with each other in sharing water and
1:03:08 – 1:03:11
nutrients, you need to have enough species
1:03:11 – 1:03:14
diversity. The question that I would ask
1:03:14 – 1:03:17
is Does your weed population, your weed
1:03:17 – 1:03:20
profile have enough species diversity?
1:03:20 – 1:03:23
Do you have a cross section of grasses,
1:03:23 – 1:03:26
broadleaves, legumes that is at least
1:03:26 – 1:03:27
eight plant families?
1:03:27 – 1:03:31
There are very few fields who would have
1:03:31 – 1:03:34
normally, because it is true that weeds
1:03:34 – 1:03:37
grow to express a specific problem.
1:03:37 – 1:03:40
You'll have dominance of two or three
1:03:40 – 1:03:43
species. You might have dominance of
1:03:43 – 1:03:46
ragweed and pigweed and lamb's quarter,
1:03:46 – 1:03:50
along with some foxtail thrown in there or
1:03:50 – 1:03:51
something like that.
1:03:51 – 1:03:54
So you'll have four species, let's say,
1:03:54 – 1:03:58
that dominate and that represent 80 or 90
1:03:58 – 1:04:00
of the population or more.
1:04:00 – 1:04:03
And in that environment, those weed
1:04:03 – 1:04:06
species will compete with your crop for
1:04:06 – 1:04:09
water and nutrients, perhaps to the crop's
1:04:09 – 1:04:12
detriment. So, the relationship that has
1:04:12 – 1:04:15
been observed in dryland farming further
1:04:15 – 1:04:19
west is that in order to have a
1:04:19 – 1:04:21
positive crop response from interseeded
1:04:21 – 1:04:24
row crops, they needed enough diversity of
1:04:24 – 1:04:27
plant species. And I'm not sure you would
1:04:27 – 1:04:29
get that with weeds.
1:04:29 – 1:04:31
So, it's an interesting thought
1:04:31 – 1:04:32
experiment. It's something that's
1:04:32 – 1:04:35
interesting to try out and take a look at,
1:04:35 – 1:04:39
but I would try it on a small scale before
1:04:39 – 1:04:40
I would expand it.
1:04:40 – 1:04:43
All right, going to take one last question
1:04:43 – 1:04:45
here. Question from Kay.
1:04:45 – 1:04:48
The other day I was weeding around my
1:04:48 – 1:04:49
black raspberries and noticed several
1:04:49 – 1:04:51
jumping worms in the mulch.
1:04:51 – 1:04:54
I'm very concerned as my neighbor has been
1:04:54 – 1:04:57
having an infestation of those as well.
1:04:57 – 1:04:59
Interestingly, I have been noticing that
1:04:59 – 1:05:02
this one row of black raspberries has not
1:05:02 – 1:05:04
growing as well and always appears very
1:05:04 – 1:05:07
dry despite irrigation and AEA soil and
1:05:07 – 1:05:08
foliar treatments.
1:05:08 – 1:05:11
This is the row that I found the worms.
1:05:11 – 1:05:13
Field Lark suggested using ground mustard
1:05:13 – 1:05:16
water to draw out the worms, but I've not
1:05:16 – 1:05:19
had a chance to implement this yet.
1:05:19 – 1:05:22
Do you have any additional insights on how
1:05:22 – 1:05:25
to eradicate them to fix the soil and save
1:05:25 – 1:05:27
my plants? I don't, unfortunately, Kay.
1:05:27 – 1:05:30
I do not have experience with those.
1:05:30 – 1:05:33
This reminds me of a story of years ago
1:05:33 – 1:05:35
when we had growers who were planting
1:05:35 – 1:05:37
onion seedlings in plastic culture, sweet
1:05:37 – 1:05:40
onions, and they had such a robust
1:05:40 – 1:05:41
earthworm population, night crawler
1:05:41 – 1:05:43
population specifically, that the night
1:05:43 – 1:05:45
crawlers would pull out the onions
1:05:45 – 1:05:48
seedlings and pull them into their
1:05:48 – 1:05:50
burrows. Pull them from the end of their
1:05:50 – 1:05:53
leaves and basically invert them and plant
1:05:53 – 1:05:56
them upside down in the soil to such a
1:05:56 – 1:05:59
point that the growers actually applied, I
1:05:59 – 1:06:02
think it was diazinon, I forget, it was
1:06:02 – 1:06:04
some toxic compound at fairly high doses
1:06:04 – 1:06:07
for the express purpose of killing the
1:06:07 – 1:06:09
earthworms. That just boggled my mind.
1:06:09 – 1:06:12
But I don't have a good answer for you.
1:06:12 – 1:06:15
I mean, a salt water application or a soap
1:06:15 – 1:06:18
water application, you just put soap and
1:06:18 – 1:06:20
salt onto the soil and that will
1:06:20 – 1:06:22
definitely draw them out.
1:06:22 – 1:06:24
And certainly need ground mustard, perhaps
1:06:24 – 1:06:26
ground mustard will be even more
1:06:26 – 1:06:27
effective, I don't know.
1:06:27 – 1:06:30
But in terms of. Treating them, once
1:06:30 – 1:06:33
you've gotten them out of the soil, I
1:06:33 – 1:06:35
don't have a good answer.
1:06:35 – 1:06:36
Don't know that. All right.
1:06:36 – 1:06:38
My goodness, there's still lots of
1:06:38 – 1:06:41
questions here. So I'll take a few more.
1:06:41 – 1:06:44
I'm going over time here and I have
1:06:44 – 1:06:47
another commitment soon, but I'll take a
1:06:47 – 1:06:48
few more of these questions.
1:06:48 – 1:06:51
There's a follow up question here from Dan
1:06:51 – 1:06:54
Does pinion have to be absorbed into the
1:06:54 – 1:06:55
plant to be effective?
1:06:55 – 1:06:58
No, it is a surface treatment.
1:06:58 – 1:07:01
As well as an internal treatment and in
1:07:01 – 1:07:03
addition to that it's absorbed very,
1:07:03 – 1:07:06
rapidly. And his followup question is, if
1:07:06 – 1:07:10
so, should it be applied in the evening?
1:07:10 – 1:07:13
Doesn't matter, you can apply it in the
1:07:13 – 1:07:16
evening or in the morning or during the
1:07:16 – 1:07:20
day, as long as it's not too hot.
1:07:20 – 1:07:23
When using in a small planting situation,
1:07:23 – 1:07:25
what should the concentrate dilution rate
1:07:25 – 1:07:27
be for this spray mixture.
1:07:27 – 1:07:31
Our rule of thumb is 1 We've been
1:07:31 – 1:07:32
experimenting with much higher
1:07:32 – 1:07:34
concentrations for drone applications and
1:07:34 – 1:07:38
so forth up to 10 But as of now,
1:07:38 – 1:07:40
our recommended dilution concentration is
1:07:40 – 1:07:44
1 solution. It doesn't appear to be a
1:07:44 – 1:07:46
biologically linked product like most
1:07:46 – 1:07:47
other AEA products.
1:07:47 – 1:07:50
So is its storage temperature range less
1:07:50 – 1:07:52
critical? No, it is absolutely a
1:07:52 – 1:07:54
biologically linked product.
1:07:54 – 1:07:57
It still has the capacity to sustain life
1:07:57 – 1:08:00
and to sustain microbes and encourage
1:08:00 – 1:08:01
them. Last question.
1:08:01 – 1:08:04
A couple more questions here from Dan.
1:08:04 – 1:08:07
Does maximized boron attrition manage or
1:08:07 – 1:08:08
control SWD fruit fly?
1:08:08 – 1:08:11
Yes, in conjunction with other things.
1:08:11 – 1:08:14
It's not just the boron alone.
1:08:14 – 1:08:17
For SWD, you really have to be effective
1:08:17 – 1:08:21
across the whole range of trace minerals
1:08:21 – 1:08:24
and get them into the fruit in high,
1:08:24 – 1:08:27
or into the berry in high concentrations.
1:08:27 – 1:08:30
Is FOTOMAG alone effective in many cases
1:08:30 – 1:08:33
to stop spotted lanternfly from being able
1:08:33 – 1:08:37
to feed or does it take a much
1:08:37 – 1:08:39
more precise nutrient management system?
1:08:39 – 1:08:42
FotoMag alone Precised nutrient management
1:08:42 – 1:08:45
system. Photomag alone is not enough to.
1:08:45 – 1:08:48
Photomag alone is effective about 65 or 70
1:08:48 – 1:08:51
of the time. Photomag plus rejuvenate is
1:08:51 – 1:08:55
effective 80 to 85 of the time.
1:08:55 – 1:08:57
Photomag plus rejuvenate plus rebound
1:08:57 – 1:09:00
boron is effective well into the mid to
1:09:00 – 1:09:03
upper 90 of the time.
1:09:03 – 1:09:06
As A point solution that's one spray, one
1:09:06 – 1:09:08
shot, treated, effective.
1:09:08 – 1:09:10
But then those effects, remember, you're
1:09:10 – 1:09:12
changing the plant's internal metabolism
1:09:12 – 1:09:16
with nutrition. That effect is going to
1:09:16 – 1:09:19
wear off if you don't address the
1:09:19 – 1:09:22
underlying imbalances that cause it in the
1:09:22 – 1:09:25
first place. So you can do a one
1:09:25 – 1:09:29
shot application, but then the follow up
1:09:29 – 1:09:32
that is needed is all right, what was
1:09:32 – 1:09:36
going on? And how do I make sure that
1:09:36 – 1:09:38
I have proper nutritional balance in the
1:09:38 – 1:09:42
long term? So, you can do a one dose
1:09:42 – 1:09:45
shot application and be very effective and
1:09:45 – 1:09:48
be very delighted by the results, but the
1:09:48 – 1:09:51
longer term, you have to take a more
1:09:51 – 1:09:52
systemic approach.
1:09:52 – 1:09:55
And one last question here from Jolin How
1:09:55 – 1:09:57
important is water quality when irrigating
1:09:57 – 1:10:00
pasture? We have hard well water, high
1:10:00 – 1:10:02
iron, 73 to 75 pH.
1:10:02 – 1:10:05
I don't have a way to use an injector
1:10:05 – 1:10:08
on my K line system right now.
1:10:08 – 1:10:11
Would that be worth it, or is there a
1:10:11 – 1:10:13
better cost effective alternative?
1:10:13 – 1:10:16
I'm wanting to do a less intense CJ Fenzo
1:10:16 – 1:10:18
experiment. Jolin, we should talk about
1:10:18 – 1:10:21
that, but also talk about that experiment.
1:10:21 – 1:10:24
But also, to come back to your question,
1:10:24 – 1:10:27
it is important. I'm less concerned about
1:10:27 – 1:10:30
the high iron. Than I am about the
1:10:30 – 1:10:33
bicarbonates. So you say you have hard
1:10:33 – 1:10:36
water. The good news for you is that
1:10:36 – 1:10:38
you're also in a high rainfall
1:10:38 – 1:10:39
environment, relatively speaking.
1:10:39 – 1:10:43
So it's going to be a lot less of
1:10:43 – 1:10:46
a concern for you than it would be in
1:10:46 – 1:10:48
a more dryland environment.
1:10:48 – 1:10:51
As long as you have water that is with
1:10:51 – 1:10:55
a hardness of under 50 grains here in the
1:10:55 – 1:10:57
east, I wouldn't be hugely concerned about
1:10:57 – 1:10:58
it.
1:10:58 – 1:11:01
And with pasture, with grasses, with
1:11:01 – 1:11:03
acidic rhizospheres, they'll do a
1:11:03 – 1:11:05
reasonably good job of breaking down the
1:11:05 – 1:11:08
minerals that come from that irrigation
1:11:08 – 1:11:10
water. But it would be worthwhile.
1:11:10 – 1:11:13
You've already done some testing and you
1:11:13 – 1:11:15
can do the math on this.
1:11:15 – 1:11:18
But if you're interested, one of the
1:11:18 – 1:11:21
things that I like about Logan Labs
1:11:21 – 1:11:23
irrigation water analysis is that they
1:11:23 – 1:11:26
report the mineral content of the water in
1:11:26 – 1:11:29
pounds per acre inch as a second metric.
1:11:29 – 1:11:33
So you can see if you put on an
1:11:33 – 1:11:36
acre inch of water, how many minerals you
1:11:36 – 1:11:39
are getting. And it's quite fascinating to
1:11:39 – 1:11:41
see water results coming back and
1:11:41 – 1:11:44
realizing that if you're putting on 20
1:11:44 – 1:11:47
inches a year, you're getting 800 pounds
1:11:47 – 1:11:49
of calcium or 1000 pounds of bicarbonate.
1:11:49 – 1:11:53
It can be quite eye opening to see the
1:11:53 – 1:11:55
numbers reported in that way.
1:11:55 – 1:11:58
All right, I'm going to call it a wrap
1:11:58 – 1:12:00
there. I've enjoyed this session.
1:12:00 – 1:12:03
I apologize for not being able to get to
1:12:03 – 1:12:04
many of the live questions.
1:12:04 – 1:12:07
But I suppose that means I just need to do
1:12:07 – 1:12:10
these more often, and that you need to ask
1:12:10 – 1:12:12
more questions of Field Arc and sign up
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for a newsletter and ask more questions in
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advance. So, thank you much, everyone.
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Have an awesome day and happy growing.
